Topic: Butterfly Labs - page 3. (Read 9783 times)

people tried to tell them this and just read (what josh hasn't deleted) his responses.   it is obscene that someone so stupid can be so arrogant.   It was not possible to hit the delivery times they were quoting and people told them.
My only hope was that people would refund and put them out of business instead of what is going to happen and these naive people are going to receive minors that are nice to have but will never pay off for them.

Exactly, just need to scale down, but they started bottom up first not realising the challenges that lie ahead.

I will not wager for something terrible to happen to a community I love. I truly hope I am wrong about BFL.

And that's my issue. If they had a way of running a 1500 GH/s rig, then it would be portable down the product chain. This tells me that made very poor assumptions while engineering their ASICs. One that would have been quickly discredited after they had a working prototype. We are hearing about this now in March/April = they financed the developing using preorders. That my friends is a ponzi scheme

bitbet http://bitbet.us/

yeah hes a fat bastard but he is the most mellow cat ever.  It makes me forget how aggravating people can be.  I think when this whole thing blows up, I shall refer to them as Larvae Labs since a beautiful butterfly emerging just isn't going to happen.

How do I make wagers against it happening?

Unless they base the operation in the north pole and melt what is left of it?

...Or outerspace

Dawe, that's cute

No problem.  I actually just took a great picture of a spare 5870 I have sitting in a box, which my massive Ragdoll cat is sharing, perched lightly on the video card:


http://www.flickr.com/photos/95319871@N08/8681701725/

Which is totally insane. What cooling system could possibility dissipate that kind of heat? Not in that space.

I think mega comes before giga.   you are talking about the output of a nuclear reactor when you "round" like that.   you are not correct.
plus he was asking about what a minirig would require and the answer to that is about 9 kilowatts or more than a typical american house uses

Thank you for introducing some much needed levity.

Let's see... 1500 Gigahashes divided by 350 megahashes... You need 4286 of my 5870 graphics cards, drawing 300 watts each? That's 1,285,800 watts, or... ahem... 1.21 Gigawatts if you round properly

What is my Hash per watt performance and how does this relate to the 1500 GH/s rig?

The PCBs were designed to handle 60 watts of power draw.  While they sort of work with 180 watts of power draw at the little-single levels of hashing, it would not be in the interest of BFL to release such a beast.  They need to properly redesign the PCB to withstand the new anticipated power draw.  They can create Jalepeno units with the old boards because they are only drawing 30 watts - far below what the boards were originally meant to handle.  They are only creating a few of them because they believe the board redesign will also make the units more power efficient.  They just announced that they finished the board revisions, and should hopefully be receiving the new boards in late next week.  At that point, full-bore production of all the product lines can commence.

Make sense?

Which is why I want this community to return things to commonsense land. BFL has a window to prove themselves. I could care less if they shipped something working to Dave. They took money for a product that is physically impossible to build with their ASIC design. 60KW rig? Could you imagine the cooling system? It's madness.

I mean honestly this comes to mind:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3ythpzsu18

This is stupid, and I hope it gets them goxxxed.  Why do people seem to think that if bitcoins are involved, they should throw common sense out the window?

"We're going to have a roller skating rink.  Our entire business is based on a delivery of skates, which we have entrusted to one company, who hasn't even sent us a sample yet".

Sounds retarded, doesn't it?

Did they just make a preorder fee or did they pay everything upfront?

This was the same question I was asking a UK based company called cloudhashing.com. They state they bought 6 minirigs and their business model is entirely dependent on whether BFL delivers. They also have a SLA between them and a mining farm within the same city as BFL are (I already expressed that this kind of centralisation is not good). I asked mainly questions to the PR guy of cloudhashing surrounding reliability and fault tolerance as being an area I am well aware of. So basically their answer was that they have no MTBF or MTTF values or documentation and they depend exclusively on BFL parts to service the rigs if there is a fault and to repair them within 24hrs.

I follow the updates obsessively, if you're interested in a random stranger's opinion based on careful analysis of said updates:

There are 3 main products. Jalapeños, Single and Mini Rig. There are power issues in design of the ASIC chip itself.

- Jalapeños can ship with the existing chips, even with their power issues due to the low specs.
- The Bitforce Single SC is not feasible to construct with the original specs, without having new chips produced at the foundry (which will take a long time). Of course if BFL came out and said this then people would be extremely upset, so they will not say this directly or admit it to customers. What they will do is ship multiple products to make up for the difference. For example if you ordered a Single (that's 60GH/s) then they will in fact ship you 2x30GH/s at a higher power rate. That way they will say they are shipping "Single", but they are just playing around with the definition of their products so they can use the faulty chips instead waiting for the new ones.
- The MiniRig is DOA with current power specs. Not happening.

BFL are very clever in managing perceptions, especially with the power issues. They distract from the ASIC power problem (a very large problem) with information about PCB power problems (a small problem). For example you will hear again and again and PCB redesigns and PCB power components and firmware, etc, etc and this makes it seem they are fixing the power issues, but the real issue can't be fixed without new chips. Improving power aspects on the PCB just paints over this! It's kind of funny to watch.