Topic: Butterfly Labs - page 4. (Read 9783 times)

How many watts of power have to go through their rigs? Also have they done any reliability testing at all? These things will be on 24/7 any downtime is lost money.

My question addresses the fate of the later models. My suspicion is that due to unforeseen increased exhaust heat, they will have to look at newer cases/passive heat dissipation, hence further delaying the shipping of those models. The jalap was intended to be a "coffee warmer" size ASIC and it is now the same size of the Bitforce SC.

Your question presupposes they are going to ship prototype ASICs to their customers. As it stands, it would unfair to ask a company to reveal trade secrets about their PCB and ASIC design. It however is fair game to ask when the RTM prototype was finalized  and what reliability testing they have performed. Also how does this scale? If a 5GH/s device is consuming 40 watts of power. How much power will the 1500 GH/s consume? With linear scaling that would be 60 kilowatts.

That was just another question to add to your list.

I can't answer that question nor will I speculate. I'm just going to wait and inform the BTC community that I'm here to help in the event of a likely ponzi scheme.

So they have started to trickle prototype quality Jalaps, so what is going on with the rest of the product line? i.e Litte Single SC, Single SC, Minirig.

His response gives credibility to the idea that BFL used preorder money to fund the development of the ASICs. This is a problem guys because they have an obligation to ship those preorders. Unless their margins are enormous, they will not be able to catch ahead and if there is a disruption in money inflow, BFL will not be able to purchase materials to manufacture and deliver the promised units.

An honest business would have done this with a kickstarter campaign and then we wouldn't be here today. But again, I do not have any hard evidence of these claims just a feeling  backed by the information I have received. I'm going to wait for the units to start shipping and see if the queue clears.

It is important to note that even if the product is poorly constructed, that does not denote a ponzi scheme. Just BFL's poor engineering skills. That is not a criminal act. If they knowingly developed a product off of orders and require a continuous influx of capital to service orders they have an obligation to deliver, then that would be a ponzi scheme.


This question is why I asked about mining in my list of questions. I'd like to get an idea how much they raised in mining profit. We can instantly verify any claims of mining profit from the addresses they provide and sign from.

So then what happened to the so called FPGA financing? I thought this would already have generated profit to fund ASIC development.

I believe what grnberg said has answered a question in your proposed letter as it reads that the Jalapeno was not production quality. Now you need to ask is when was the prototype made and why are they shipping "prototype standard" ASIC miners?

If more people believe BFL will actually ship, then they will have a spike in orders from people on the sidelines. The money can then be used to finance the original orders and continue the process. As long as the queue is filled, BFL stays in business. This is why we need an audit.

so the review prototypes that were sent out were for generating hype. NICE.

There are many unanswered questions and BFL must deliver soon if they wish to maintain credibility. I will reserve judgement and wait for them to act. If they fail to act, then I will rally as many in the community who are willing and take the next step. This stuff is painful and difficult, but very necessary for a growing ecosystem.

Quoting from the site:
================
Update: I have exchanged some email with @BFL_Josh , and some things have been clarified.

My unit is probably closer to prototype than a production-quality review unit. In particular, one of the two chips in my miner is a dud, and non-functional. Production 5GH/s miners will all have 2 functional ASIC chips. Because mine has only one, it has been clocked higher, and is not quite capable of reaching 5 GH/s. But I'm happy with it.

Edit: I forgot to mention -- Shipping weight was 1.54 kilograms - about 3.4 pounds.
============

So basically BFL are selling dud ASIC's with 1 overclocked chip whilst the other chip is non functional. Hmmm, not good in terms of redundancy if the only chip fails!

Well, then let's just wait and see. If I am wrong, then no one has anything to worry about. Let's see if units actually ship to customers who have waited very patiently for many months. 

Dude, inform yourself some more on the latest updates and use the right forum.

BFL News (Twitter)
BFL Haters Forum

I don't think BFL cares about internet police at this point. Real police, if you tried to get them involved, will hear the word 'Bitcoin' and think 'imaginary internet problems'. The only thing that can, and possibly did, make them take any notice was complaints to PayPal (several pre-order customers have stated that PayPal compliance dept. called them on the phone and asked if they had received their products yet).

They are trickling out prototype Jalapeños and might have the prototype of the Single SC completed in a few weeks.

I have seen and actually posted this video in a prior thread. Again, the unit was never opened. Also this does not mean BFL is financially capable of shipping every unit in the queue. If I sell you something, then I have an obligation to deliver it within the conditions of our agreement. BFL did not put a disclaimer: "Only if enough other people buy too!". The ponzi question will be answered naturally by shipping volume. Unless the queue is emptied within a few months, BFL is most likely running a ponzi scheme.

Here is an unboxing video of a unit that shipped earlier this week:
http://codinginmysleep.com/bfl-jalapeno-unboxing-and-demo/

Can he then post something in this thread? And also this does not impact the ponzi potential. Only the shipping volume will determine if BFL is legitimate. Again, they can finance the manufacturing and shipping of previous units with new orders. As long as the queue is filled, they can continue to ship. If BFL can exhaust a large chunk of their queue while staying solvent, then they are not running a ponzi scheme. 

I will back off if units start shipping and simply wait and see.

user grnbrg has opened and dismantled his.   I think his name is bryan greenberg in winnipeg canada.   He has posted pics on butterfly labs site.  

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/hardware-discussion/1983-grnbrgs-unboxing-teardown-new-bitforce-5-gh-s-sc-miner.html

They claim to be developing the firmware in house https://forums.butterflylabs.com/announcements/692-bfl-asic-status-2.html.



The first step in initiating a class action lawsuit is usually an open letter alongside a search for victims of a company's actions. This letter will be part of the open domain and it is their choice to respond. I feel the questions are legitimate to ask and absolutely deserve to be answered. Should they ignore them, then the next step is to retain a law firm to commit to a class action suit. They will draft another query and start a victim search. From there a lawsuit will be filed concurrently with a criminal fraud complaint.

This will take a great deal of my time and thus I will commit to it only if my two criteria are met:

• BFL does not start shiping its production units to its queue within the next 30 days
• Independent sources verify an actual ASIC exists developed by BFL (I have not seen a single review unit opened)

I understand delays can occur within any venture; however, the nature of the delays and the way they have handled the delays has lead me to believe BFL financed the production of their ASICs using preorder money. Therefore, they may not have enough cash on hand to actually manufacture and deliver the units they are legally committed to deliver. In Ponzi schemes this is generally handled by a long queue with prior orders financed by future orders. As long as the queue is sufficiently filled, they can continue to deliver some product. Any disruption in order flow would result in a collapse of the company, which is why I am asking if they will commit to outside audit to verify this has not occurred.

It is important to note that I do not have evidence of these claims. This is merely speculation from my experience in the business world and watching the BFL story unfold. I have no desire to rock the boat. But the alternative is accepting that hundreds of people on bitcointalk could have been defrauded and the media runs another hit story on how terrible bitcoins are.

(If anyone in this community has received a product from BFL, then could you please verify that it is indeed to the specifications they have claimed after their most recent delay? I will drop this matter if someone can verify that the unit exists from BFL and a large volume of units are being shipped)