Topic: Butterflylabs Huge SCAM - page 118. (Read 415652 times)
I want to trust them. I really do. Where else can we get ASIC?
___________________________________________________
Butterfly Labs Inc <[email protected]>;
This is to confirm that your order no. 10561, pay-dated 10/8/2012, for 1 BitForce Single has been successfully entered into our system.
This is to confirm that your order no. 10833, pay-dated 10/12/2012, for 1 BitForce Jalapeno has been successfully entered into our system.
I have to ask for my refund. Please send it back. In 3 days I will contact My Visa company along with PayPal.
I will accept a firm and confirmed shipping date to continue with my order. If you require additional information to verify orders or you wish to contact me my phone is XXX XXX XXXX.
Thank you.
This is a copy of my email on Tuesday Jan 8 of 2013. I repeatedly threatened a refund if anymore delays were going to happen.
Butterfly Labs Inc <[email protected]>;
This is to confirm that your order no. 10561, pay-dated 10/8/2012, for 1 BitForce Single has been successfully entered into our system.
This is to confirm that your order no. 10833, pay-dated 10/12/2012, for 1 BitForce Jalapeno has been successfully entered into our system.
I have to ask for my refund. Please send it back. In 3 days I will contact My Visa company along with PayPal.
I will accept a firm and confirmed shipping date to continue with my order. If you require additional information to verify orders or you wish to contact me my phone is XXX XXX XXXX.
Thank you.
This is a copy of my email on Tuesday Jan 8 of 2013. I repeatedly threatened a refund if anymore delays were going to happen.
Then there are people like me. That ordered 2 units and waited, read all I can read and watched every move every update from BFL gave them every chance to redeem themselves. I can make a chronicled detailed month by month account of my experience but as most of you have already made your mind I gues it would fall on deaf ears.
I have also gone on his forum and expressed my concerns about what they're doing and have not gotten into any trouble by any moderators there. I have even had the "privilage" if you want to call it that, of asking Josh reasonable question that to this day has never answered me back. I have asked his the same questions here and also ignored. The question was that when I ordered my units in Oct of 2012 and he was stating that shipments were possible in late Dec what was he so sure was going to be shipped then when he moved to the new location in late Jan and purchased new tabled to assemble the units on. No answer.
How about the promises in Jan,Feb,Mar, and April now were hearing June-July. My orders in Oct would be still waiting to be shipped. What was shipping in Dec that needed me to hurry and place a pre-order quick to get in line?
I'm just telling it as I see it. My experience if I come off as upset, there is a reason for that. To be honest if you want to ignore me then your just collateral damage as far as I see it.
It's not like I'm going to get a thank you anyways later.
Even if they deliver anything more then 12 units you did the right thing to leave IMO. People who care more about shit talking "non belivers" then taking care of existing investors and making a kickass ASIC should not be making any hardware or profit I have also gone on his forum and expressed my concerns about what they're doing and have not gotten into any trouble by any moderators there. I have even had the "privilage" if you want to call it that, of asking Josh reasonable question that to this day has never answered me back. I have asked his the same questions here and also ignored. The question was that when I ordered my units in Oct of 2012 and he was stating that shipments were possible in late Dec what was he so sure was going to be shipped then when he moved to the new location in late Jan and purchased new tabled to assemble the units on. No answer.
How about the promises in Jan,Feb,Mar, and April now were hearing June-July. My orders in Oct would be still waiting to be shipped. What was shipping in Dec that needed me to hurry and place a pre-order quick to get in line?
I'm just telling it as I see it. My experience if I come off as upset, there is a reason for that. To be honest if you want to ignore me then your just collateral damage as far as I see it.
It's not like I'm going to get a thank you anyways later.
The question was that when I ordered my units in Oct of 2012 and he was stating that shipments were possible in late Dec what was he so sure was going to be shipped then when he moved to the new location in late Jan and purchased new tabled to assemble the units on. No answer.
You received no answer because your question was so incredibly stupid that it doesn't deserve an answer. I mean, seriously, just stop and use your brain for one second. Just one second. How did we manage to assemble and ship thousands of FPGA units? Do you think they just magically fell out of the sky and we shipped them out? Don't you think (no, you don't, obviously) that we might use that same facility/tables/benches/chairs/etc... to assemble ASIC units? Are you really this stupid?
This is why I don't take you seriously... you can't even form a cogent thought on simple mechanics, such as assembly... why should I bother to answer any of your other equally asinine questions if you can't even comprehend such a simple thing as new benches vs old benches.
You sir seem to be one of those who prefer to shit talk "non belivers".
I have not programmed any FPGA or built any ASICs but just because you "can" doesnt mean you can proclaim people idiots who dont.
btw. A new bench is a old bench in ten years am i right? An ASIC bench vs a FPGA bench though have a clear distinction. L2Not be an Idiot
I'm surprised they extend as much courtesy to dealing with people on this forum as it is...
You received no answer because your question was so incredibly stupid that it doesn't deserve an answer. I mean, seriously, just stop and use your brain for one second. Just one second. How did we manage to assemble and ship thousands of FPGA units? Do you think they just magically fell out of the sky and we shipped them out? Don't you think (no, you don't, obviously) that we might use that same facility/tables/benches/chairs/etc... to assemble ASIC units? Are you really this stupid?
This is why I don't take you seriously... you can't even form a cogent thought on simple mechanics, such as assembly... why should I bother to answer any of your other equally asinine questions if you can't even comprehend such a simple thing as new benches vs old benches.
This is why I don't take you seriously... you can't even form a cogent thought on simple mechanics, such as assembly... why should I bother to answer any of your other equally asinine questions if you can't even comprehend such a simple thing as new benches vs old benches.
Yea... 'courtesy'.....
I'm surprised they extend as much courtesy to dealing with people on this forum as it is...
You received no answer because your question was so incredibly stupid that it doesn't deserve an answer. I mean, seriously, just stop and use your brain for one second. Just one second. How did we manage to assemble and ship thousands of FPGA units? Do you think they just magically fell out of the sky and we shipped them out? Don't you think (no, you don't, obviously) that we might use that same facility/tables/benches/chairs/etc... to assemble ASIC units? Are you really this stupid?
This is why I don't take you seriously... you can't even form a cogent thought on simple mechanics, such as assembly... why should I bother to answer any of your other equally asinine questions if you can't even comprehend such a simple thing as new benches vs old benches.
This is why I don't take you seriously... you can't even form a cogent thought on simple mechanics, such as assembly... why should I bother to answer any of your other equally asinine questions if you can't even comprehend such a simple thing as new benches vs old benches.
Yea... 'courtesy'.....
The question was that when I ordered my units in Oct of 2012 and he was stating that shipments were possible in late Dec what was he so sure was going to be shipped then when he moved to the new location in late Jan and purchased new tabled to assemble the units on. No answer.
You received no answer because your question was so incredibly stupid that it doesn't deserve an answer. I mean, seriously, just stop and use your brain for one second. Just one second. How did we manage to assemble and ship thousands of FPGA units? Do you think they just magically fell out of the sky and we shipped them out? Don't you think (no, you don't, obviously) that we might use that same facility/tables/benches/chairs/etc... to assemble ASIC units? Are you really this stupid?
This is why I don't take you seriously... you can't even form a cogent thought on simple mechanics, such as assembly... why should I bother to answer any of your other equally asinine questions if you can't even comprehend such a simple thing as new benches vs old benches.
In Dec what were you going to be able to deliver that was so urgent for me to place a pre-order in Oct?
What was being delivered in DEC ?
Could you be a sweetie and answer that little question for me?
The question was that when I ordered my units in Oct of 2012 and he was stating that shipments were possible in late Dec what was he so sure was going to be shipped then when he moved to the new location in late Jan and purchased new tabled to assemble the units on. No answer.
You received no answer because your question was so incredibly stupid that it doesn't deserve an answer. I mean, seriously, just stop and use your brain for one second. Just one second. How did we manage to assemble and ship thousands of FPGA units? Do you think they just magically fell out of the sky and we shipped them out? Don't you think (no, you don't, obviously) that we might use that same facility/tables/benches/chairs/etc... to assemble ASIC units? Are you really this stupid?
This is why I don't take you seriously... you can't even form a cogent thought on simple mechanics, such as assembly... why should I bother to answer any of your other equally asinine questions if you can't even comprehend such a simple thing as new benches vs old benches.
Indeed there is a difference. Hence why plenty of people have asked questions, and not had their orders canceled. They aren't canceling orders for every question. They're canceling orders for assholes trashing their business.
I've dealt with plenty of customer questions, and usually do my best to work with them. It's a VEEERRRRY rare occurrence that I tell somebody to GTFO, and it's because they're being an asshole.
We can all see plenty of people who've merely "asked questions" who didn't get their orders canceled, and get blacklisted. So the idea that BFL is canceling orders of those who 'ask questions' is asinine.
And even if they WERE doing so, that's their prerogative. It won't make good business sense, but if they want to cancel every order of any person who asks them a question, they're well within their rights to do so, and you don't have a basis to "Sue or get revenge some other way" as somebody suggested.
If you're gonna talk smack about/cop attitude with a company, be prepared to lose the option to do business with them. If you intend to have a working business relationship with somebody, behave in a manner that fosters feelings of mutual respect. Especially if you're in the position of being hosed if they tell you to get lost.
For every one customer that pulls out or gets booted for running his mouth, there are 10 more willing to take his spot. Beggars can't be choosers.
There was another person in this thread besides the one you quoted who was banned for asking how many units had shipped, not for being an asshole, so I would disagree on whether or not that idea is asinine, but anyway.... You completely sidestep my point here. What about the potential customers who are treated like shit for simply asking questions? Because that certainly is happening more often than cancelled orders. How does talking shit on forums, trashing the people who are trashing your company, and refusing to provide any citations for the claims you make fall under the umbrella of 'good service'? Not only does it show how concerned they are(not) with keeping customers happy, it damages their reputation as a whole which is also typically bad for business. Think about it, if a question that irritates Josh or whomever up there could be answered by saying 'Hey, we have addressed that, click here for more info.' - in that case then what type of business person would opt to just call that person who asked an idiot instead, as they have many times over?
MT has it right, as you yourself say "behave in a manner that fosters feelings of mutual respect" - and I don't see that type of behavior coming from BFL. Not that that is an excuse for the way some people talk about them, but it is an excuse for me to not do business with them. You originally defended their right to not engage in an abusive customer-business relationship, and that holds true just as much as everybody has the same right not to engage in an abusive business-customer relationship. You may be great at keeping customers happy, but you aren't BFL, are you?
I have't seen his post, and I haven't seen his other posts, so I can't speak to that, but I'm going to go ahead and HIGHLY doubt that the context was a simple question of number of units shipped. Was he piling on? Had he been harassing them otherwise? I've asked questions, but in a respectful manner, and nothing bad has happened to my order. In fact, I was answered respectfully, and surprisingly quickly.
This forum has a cancer of anti-BFL trolls, so I can see why BFL might be what some would perceive as being overly sensitive; but there are several members who dedicate several hours a day to trashing BFL. So I don't blame them for having a short fuse with people on this particular forum, or with members who chose to pile on in certain trolling threads. Even if they're not necessarily the instigators, the context of piling on can change the meaning of a simple "question" significantly.
Again, if you believe that BFL has something of value to offer (and I genuinely do), then it would behoove you to be respectful of those whom you seek to do business with. I have seen Josh lose his shit with a few members, but never entirely undeservedly. I've put members like Smoothie and NachoLibre (or whoever the fuck), on ignore, and the static has calmed down significantly. There are the n00bs who get out of the n00b cage and straight into trolling, because they think that's how they'll get popular, but they don't keep at it too long, or they make the ignore list as well. If I were at BFL, I'd probably write this forum off altogether, and focus only on the BFL forum. I'm surprised they extend as much courtesy to dealing with people on this forum as it is...
Then there are people like me. That ordered 2 units and waited, read all I can read and watched every move every update from BFL gave them every chance to redeem themselves. I can make a chronicled detailed month by month account of my experience but as most of you have already made your mind I gues it would fall on deaf ears.
I have also gone on his forum and expressed my concerns about what they're doing and have not gotten into any trouble by any moderators there. I have even had the "privilage" if you want to call it that, of asking Josh reasonable question that to this day has never answered me back. I have asked his the same questions here and also ignored. The question was that when I ordered my units in Oct of 2012 and he was stating that shipments were possible in late Dec what was he so sure was going to be shipped then when he moved to the new location in late Jan and purchased new tabled to assemble the units on. No answer.
How about the promises in Jan,Feb,Mar, and April now were hearing June-July. My orders in Oct would be still waiting to be shipped. What was shipping in Dec that needed me to hurry and place a pre-order quick to get in line?
I'm just telling it as I see it. My experience if I come off as upset, there is a reason for that. To be honest if you want to ignore me then your just collateral damage as far as I see it.
It's not like I'm going to get a thank you anyways later.
Indeed there is a difference. Hence why plenty of people have asked questions, and not had their orders canceled. They aren't canceling orders for every question. They're canceling orders for assholes trashing their business.
I've dealt with plenty of customer questions, and usually do my best to work with them. It's a VEEERRRRY rare occurrence that I tell somebody to GTFO, and it's because they're being an asshole.
We can all see plenty of people who've merely "asked questions" who didn't get their orders canceled, and get blacklisted. So the idea that BFL is canceling orders of those who 'ask questions' is asinine.
And even if they WERE doing so, that's their prerogative. It won't make good business sense, but if they want to cancel every order of any person who asks them a question, they're well within their rights to do so, and you don't have a basis to "Sue or get revenge some other way" as somebody suggested.
If you're gonna talk smack about/cop attitude with a company, be prepared to lose the option to do business with them. If you intend to have a working business relationship with somebody, behave in a manner that fosters feelings of mutual respect. Especially if you're in the position of being hosed if they tell you to get lost.
For every one customer that pulls out or gets booted for running his mouth, there are 10 more willing to take his spot. Beggars can't be choosers.
There was another person in this thread besides the one you quoted who was banned for asking how many units had shipped, not for being an asshole, so I would disagree on whether or not that idea is asinine, but anyway.... You completely sidestep my point here. What about the potential customers who are treated like shit for simply asking questions? Because that certainly is happening more often than cancelled orders. How does talking shit on forums, trashing the people who are trashing your company, and refusing to provide any citations for the claims you make fall under the umbrella of 'good service'? Not only does it show how concerned they are(not) with keeping customers happy, it damages their reputation as a whole which is also typically bad for business. Think about it, if a question that irritates Josh or whomever up there could be answered by saying 'Hey, we have addressed that, click here for more info.' - in that case then what type of business person would opt to just call that person who asked an idiot instead, as they have many times over?
MT has it right, as you yourself say "behave in a manner that fosters feelings of mutual respect" - and I don't see that type of behavior coming from BFL. Not that that is an excuse for the way some people talk about them, but it is an excuse for me to not do business with them. You originally defended their right to not engage in an abusive customer-business relationship, and that holds true just as much as everybody has the same right not to engage in an abusive business-customer relationship. You may be great at keeping customers happy, but you aren't BFL, are you?
I have't seen his post, and I haven't seen his other posts, so I can't speak to that, but I'm going to go ahead and HIGHLY doubt that the context was a simple question of number of units shipped. Was he piling on? Had he been harassing them otherwise? I've asked questions, but in a respectful manner, and nothing bad has happened to my order. In fact, I was answered respectfully, and surprisingly quickly.
This forum has a cancer of anti-BFL trolls, so I can see why BFL might be what some would perceive as being overly sensitive; but there are several members who dedicate several hours a day to trashing BFL. So I don't blame them for having a short fuse with people on this particular forum, or with members who chose to pile on in certain trolling threads. Even if they're not necessarily the instigators, the context of piling on can change the meaning of a simple "question" significantly.
Again, if you believe that BFL has something of value to offer (and I genuinely do), then it would behoove you to be respectful of those whom you seek to do business with. I have seen Josh lose his shit with a few members, but never entirely undeservedly. I've put members like Smoothie and NachoLibre (or whoever the fuck), on ignore, and the static has calmed down significantly. There are the n00bs who get out of the n00b cage and straight into trolling, because they think that's how they'll get popular, but they don't keep at it too long, or they make the ignore list as well. If I were at BFL, I'd probably write this forum off altogether, and focus only on the BFL forum. I'm surprised they extend as much courtesy to dealing with people on this forum as it is...
$274 for 5 GH/s sounds so tempting....almost pulled the trigger on it til I started looking at their forums. I'm staying FAR away until I see some units are actually shipping out...it was a nice trick getting the arstechnica.com article out there, they almost got me...
Thanks for the info, OP.
Not targetted at you massnerder. Just a comment in general about what I've seen discussed on here, it's crossing the line in places.
Ah... gotcha.
Yea, I can agree with that. Can you elaborate on that? All I am saying is that I have seen the way they respond on this forum and have not been happy with the attitude they give people. There are lots of comments in this thread that are far worse than anything I have said. I never said they are scamming people nor do I think that is the case, but I personally wouldn't order from them. That is my right just as much as it is their right to cancel orders and choose who they do business with.
Not targetted at you massnerder. Just a comment in general about what I've seen discussed on here, it's crossing the line in places.
Can you elaborate on that? All I am saying is that I have seen the way they respond on this forum and have not been happy with the attitude they give people. There are lots of comments in this thread that are far worse than anything I have said. I never said they are scamming people nor do I think that is the case, but I personally wouldn't order from them. That is my right just as much as it is their right to cancel orders and choose who they do business with.
There was another person in this thread besides the one you quoted who was banned for asking how many units had shipped, not for being an asshole, so I would disagree on whether or not that idea is asinine, but anyway.... You completely sidestep my point here. What about the potential customers who are treated like shit for simply asking questions? Because that certainly is happening more often than cancelled orders. How does talking shit on forums, trashing the people who are trashing your company, and refusing to provide any citations for the claims you make fall under the umbrella of 'good service'? Not only does it show how concerned they are(not) with keeping customers happy, it damages their reputation as a whole which is also typically bad for business. Think about it, if a question that irritates Josh or whomever up there could be answered by saying 'Hey, we have addressed that, click here for more info.' - in that case then what type of business person would opt to just call that person an idiot instead, as they have many times over?
MT has it right, as you yourself say "behave in a manner that fosters feelings of mutual respect" - and I don't see that type of behavior coming from BFL. Not that that is an excuse for the way some people talk about them, but it is an excuse for me to not do business with them. You originally defended their right to not engage in an abusive customer-business relationship, and that holds true just as much as everybody has the same right not to engage in an abusive business-customer relationship. You may be great at keeping customers happy, but you aren't BFL, are you?
MT has it right, as you yourself say "behave in a manner that fosters feelings of mutual respect" - and I don't see that type of behavior coming from BFL. Not that that is an excuse for the way some people talk about them, but it is an excuse for me to not do business with them. You originally defended their right to not engage in an abusive customer-business relationship, and that holds true just as much as everybody has the same right not to engage in an abusive business-customer relationship. You may be great at keeping customers happy, but you aren't BFL, are you?
People need to be careful what they put in the public domain (you can be taken to court, this has happened several times recently for forum comments about companies). Clealry communicating with their customers is a bit of a problem for BFL, however, I believe they are doing what they can. Personal feelings can make people behave irrationally. You are investing in a new product in an emerging market. There will be many problems along the way. What do you expect?
I would also say there are rules of conduct a company must follow on expected times of delivery on pre-orders. These are not followed by bfl. I would welcome a court action and many would put that company so far under the mail fraud would be the least of sonnys concerns. The cause of action against BFL would only hurt the dupes invested in bfl. I assure you court is not a problem. Its a remedy.
People are just lazy. However if BFL has a case on any individual I assure you we have plenty of evidence and motive by many individuals. Remember shady companies dislike the spotlight put on their business practices. Their families and past dealings with law.
Do some more research on the individuals involved.
There was another person in this thread besides the one you quoted who was banned for asking how many units had shipped, not for being an asshole, so I would disagree on whether or not that idea is asinine, but anyway.... You completely sidestep my point here. What about the potential customers who are treated like shit for simply asking questions? Because that certainly is happening more often than cancelled orders. How does talking shit on forums, trashing the people who are trashing your company, and refusing to provide any citations for the claims you make fall under the umbrella of 'good service'? Not only does it show how concerned they are(not) with keeping customers happy, it damages their reputation as a whole which is also typically bad for business. Think about it, if a question that irritates Josh or whomever up there could be answered by saying 'Hey, we have addressed that, click here for more info.' - in that case then what type of business person would opt to just call that person an idiot instead, as they have many times over?
MT has it right, as you yourself say "behave in a manner that fosters feelings of mutual respect" - and I don't see that type of behavior coming from BFL. Not that that is an excuse for the way some people talk about them, but it is an excuse for me to not do business with them. You originally defended their right to not engage in an abusive customer-business relationship, and that holds true just as much as everybody has the same right not to engage in an abusive business-customer relationship. You may be great at keeping customers happy, but you aren't BFL, are you?
MT has it right, as you yourself say "behave in a manner that fosters feelings of mutual respect" - and I don't see that type of behavior coming from BFL. Not that that is an excuse for the way some people talk about them, but it is an excuse for me to not do business with them. You originally defended their right to not engage in an abusive customer-business relationship, and that holds true just as much as everybody has the same right not to engage in an abusive business-customer relationship. You may be great at keeping customers happy, but you aren't BFL, are you?
People need to be careful what they put in the public domain (you can be taken to court, this has happened several times recently for forum comments about companies). Clealry communicating with their customers is a bit of a problem for BFL, however, I believe they are doing what they can. Personal feelings can make people behave irrationally. You are investing in a new product in an emerging market. There will be many problems along the way. What do you expect?
Indeed there is a difference. Hence why plenty of people have asked questions, and not had their orders canceled. They aren't canceling orders for every question. They're canceling orders for assholes trashing their business.
I've dealt with plenty of customer questions, and usually do my best to work with them. It's a VEEERRRRY rare occurrence that I tell somebody to GTFO, and it's because they're being an asshole.
We can all see plenty of people who've merely "asked questions" who didn't get their orders canceled, and get blacklisted. So the idea that BFL is canceling orders of those who 'ask questions' is asinine.
And even if they WERE doing so, that's their prerogative. It won't make good business sense, but if they want to cancel every order of any person who asks them a question, they're well within their rights to do so, and you don't have a basis to "Sue or get revenge some other way" as somebody suggested.
If you're gonna talk smack about/cop attitude with a company, be prepared to lose the option to do business with them. If you intend to have a working business relationship with somebody, behave in a manner that fosters feelings of mutual respect. Especially if you're in the position of being hosed if they tell you to get lost.
For every one customer that pulls out or gets booted for running his mouth, there are 10 more willing to take his spot. Beggars can't be choosers.
There was another person in this thread besides the one you quoted who was banned for asking how many units had shipped, not for being an asshole, so I would disagree on whether or not that idea is asinine, but anyway.... You completely sidestep my point here. What about the potential customers who are treated like shit for simply asking questions? Because that certainly is happening more often than cancelled orders. How does talking shit on forums, trashing the people who are trashing your company, and refusing to provide any citations for the claims you make fall under the umbrella of 'good service'? Not only does it show how concerned they are(not) with keeping customers happy, it damages their reputation as a whole which is also typically bad for business. Think about it, if a question that irritates Josh or whomever up there could be answered by saying 'Hey, we have addressed that, click here for more info.' - in that case then what type of business person would opt to just call that person who asked an idiot instead, as they have many times over?
MT has it right, as you yourself say "behave in a manner that fosters feelings of mutual respect" - and I don't see that type of behavior coming from BFL. Not that that is an excuse for the way some people talk about them, but it is an excuse for me to not do business with them. You originally defended their right to not engage in an abusive customer-business relationship, and that holds true just as much as everybody has the same right not to engage in an abusive business-customer relationship. You may be great at keeping customers happy, but you aren't BFL, are you?
I was seconds away from pulling the trigger on one
I openly speculated about the integrity of the process... (I ordered $2666 in July-August 2012). They forced a refund upon me and booted me out of my 3xxx and 4,xxx orders of 60 gh/s respectfully just a few days ago.
Josh said I could vote with my money, but it looks like he did the voting for me. I'm sad and I feel cheated. They won't talk to me. =(
Josh said I could vote with my money, but it looks like he did the voting for me. I'm sad and I feel cheated. They won't talk to me. =(
After PuertoLibre's fake avalon/dhl shipping notice, (yes, that low can someone's self esteem sink), this is a good joke too:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.2100103
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.2100103
Hahaha! That's awesome. This guy wants to defame the company and do nothing but complain, but then he gets all butthurt when they tell him to take his business elsewhere!
"I hate you and your company so much, but don't you DARE tell me I can't buy your products!" The hypocrisy is overwhelming!
I have, as a business owner myself, had the wonderful satisfaction of telling the very rare disagreeable customer to take their money and get the fuck out. The reaction is always PRICELESS. You can tell that people really believe this "The customer is always right" crap, to mean that they're entitled to behave any way they want, and businesses are obligated to just put up with it.
You're not entitled to force me into an abusive customer/business relationship. If you're unhappy, I'll try and make you a happy customer. If you're just going to be a prick, I'll save us both some time, and you can go be somebody else's problem.
99.999% of all of my customer interactions are amicable, and most 'dissatisfied' customers are easily turned into satisfied customers with very little effort, a little dialogue and compromise on both sides. It doesn't always involve me giving exactly what they asked for in their complaint.
If I have a delay in being able to fill somebody's order, I give them a choice of a refund, or waiting it out. Regardless, the choice is in their hands. If they believe that my product is worth waiting for, they will. If not, they can seek other arrangements. Most rational human beings can understand that. I used to work for a very large computer company (not legally allowed to say who). More than once, I blacklisted idiot customers (business accounts even) from ever being able to place an order, or get phone support ever again (wonder how well it went for them when they had to explain to the boss man why he now no longer had a service contract, or the ability to buy his computers from that company anymore).
No longer in the computer business, but I have a customer who has been waiting on a $2900 order since September (This is a customer who orders $20,000 worth of products a year through me), when the original estimated delivery time was back in December. I CLEARLY underestimated the wait time. Most of this was based off of feedback from the manufacturer, some of it was probably too much optimism on my part. Either way, the result is, it's been 7 months for what was SUPPOSED to take 2 months, and we're still counting down.
Every few weeks, I provide an update on the fact that I'm STILL waiting on a supplier to provide his order to me, and EVERY TIME I offer to refund him if he doesn't feel like waiting anymore. And EVERY TIME, he thanks me for the offer but chooses to continue with his order, as my price is competitive with everybody else and he's not likely to get it much faster anywhere else. Keep in mind that due to government paperwork, that even AFTER his order gets to me, it will still be tied up in bureaucratic red tape for another 3-4 Months, even if it showed up in my hands TODAY.
If, for some reason, he started trolling forums and defaming my business, calling me a scammer, etc, etc. I would write him a refund check, PRONTO, and tell him that his customer privileges have been revoked. Then again, he's not an asshole, so I can't see this ever happening.
I fully support BFL's response to the idiots who want to go around trashing them but also think they are entitled to continue to buy whatever they want from them. The world doesn't owe you anything. BFL doesn't owe you anything. Learn to watch what you say about people that you want to do business with, because business is a two-way street. You have the right to take your business elsewhere, but business owners have the right to send you packing as well. I love it when a company owner has the cajones to remind imbeciles of that fact from time to time.
The Westboro Baptist church went to a small town in Southeastern Oklahoma one time, to spew their hate at whatever random event was happening that day (military funeral, I believe). Somebody cut 2 of their tires.
The WBCers drove all around town on 2 flat tires trying to find a tire shop to buy tires from. Every single tire shop they stopped at recognized them and told them they weren't worthy to be their customers.
They finally ended up going to Wal-Mart, who has no standards and is used to interacting with trash, and got some tires. As far as I know, the WBC have never been back to McAlester Oklahoma.
LOL cool story indeed. What this customer service superstar seems to overlook is that there is a clear difference between trashing the company with accusations/being a asshole in general and simply asking a few questions. Josh's conduct in this thread alone is a perfect example of why so many people are upset with BFL. Questions are asked, and he gets all upset while name calling and raving about how these questions have been answered before and how dare you even ask them.... He can take the time to spew out his negative feelings about the community reaction to the company, but he can't simply paste a link or 2 and point out those answers like a professional. Because, after all, it's much easier to type out a long bitchy response to someone than it is to hit ctrl+v.
Indeed there is a difference. Hence why plenty of people have asked questions, and not had their orders canceled. They aren't canceling orders for every question. They're canceling orders for assholes trashing their business.
I've dealt with plenty of customer questions, and usually do my best to work with them. It's a VEEERRRRY rare occurrence that I tell somebody to GTFO, and it's because they're being an asshole.
We can all see plenty of people who've merely "asked questions" who didn't get their orders canceled, and get blacklisted. So the idea that BFL is canceling orders of those who 'ask questions' is asinine.
And even if they WERE doing so, that's their prerogative. It won't make good business sense, but if they want to cancel every order of any person who asks them a question, they're well within their rights to do so, and you don't have a basis to "Sue or get revenge some other way" as somebody suggested.
If you're gonna talk smack about/cop attitude with a company, be prepared to lose the option to do business with them. If you intend to have a working business relationship with somebody, behave in a manner that fosters feelings of mutual respect. Especially if you're in the position of being hosed if they tell you to get lost.
For every one customer that pulls out or gets booted for running his mouth, there are 10 more willing to take his spot. Beggars can't be choosers.
Your placing BFL on the same level of business ethics as your self. Are you cheating your customers? No are you lying to your customers and when they ask question about your business practices you become irate and refuse to work with them? I assume you hold more standards at a higher level.
I asked for a refund not because I did not like their service or product. I asked for my refund ONLY if they could not give me a solid date that they could do in writing. I was not even given a reply as a matter of fact my reply was my money in return. Now that was in Jan 15 of the year 2013. I had waited 3 months and read every update.
Would I have made that purchase if I knew the product was not going to be shipped until 6-7 months later? I believe I would not be so ridiculous. Now was I mislead into purchasing a product? Now how many out there now believe the product will be shipped soon?
This has been happening since July of the year 2012. I believe you have a better business sense of what your customers want in your products right?
Edit: Fact every month they change their website estimate of shipping soon to the next month I have seen this happen already 3 times .... So far
Yeah they're a bunch of cons. Nothing about their operation makes sense if you assume its legit. The other day I looked on ebay and found a bunch of sellers hawking their preorders for x2 to x3 what BFL charges, lol. The great cycle of scam continues.
Selling rigs to miners is a better way of making money. I'm seeing some good returns selling LiteCoin GPU rigs. What's wrong with people selling pre-orders on eBay if the demand is there?
I think BFL have genuinley had a lot of problems. Business projects frequently go over timescales over the smallest things. Do people really think they're sitting on all the ASIC devices?
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