Topic: Buy the DIP, and HODL! - page 115. (Read 130182 times)

What we are talking about in this thread is Bitcoin investment and how we can be able to accumulate Bitcoin either using any of your prefer strategy it can be the DCA strategy, lump sum strategy or buying at the dip strategy to accumulate while I prefer the DCA strategy which all you to accumulate Bitcoin at different price level either weekly or monthly and not some kind of vague term like Crypto which can actually mislead some newbies here believing that shitcoins are same to Bitcoin because you never specificed it for Bitcoin is Bitcoin and shitcoin is shitcoins and stop mixing them up and stop referring Bitcoin to shitcoins.

Well, in my own perspective, the DCA method is the best way to build your investment portfolio, because you only investment base on what you can afford and as long as you have a weekly or monthly income coming in, you have no worries, just invest only what you can do without, then you are definitely good to go, because where the major problem mostly arise is that most investors mostly invest more than they can afford, they invest more and when in serious financial needs, they tend to deep their hands into their investment without thinking how bad it is for their holdings, but in other to be successful while doing it, the best way is to invest only what you can afford to do away without and also try to have an emergency funds kept aside for the rainy days, so that you won't have to fall back to your investment when you are in serious financial mess.

Why do we need to bring up a person with large capital to potentially confuse matters. 

A main difference with a person with large capital, such as the amount that you are suggesting is that he likely has more options because he is starting out with large capital that he might be able to invest in bitcoin, in the event that he has decided to allocate such capital (or part of such capital) to bitcoin.

If the person with large capital has not yet figured out bitcoin, then he is in a similar situation as any no coiner in terms of considering whether and how to invest in bitcoin once he figures out that he wants to buy bitcoin and once he figures out how much he wants to allocate, then he can figure between his various options in regards to how to get in. 

If the guy with $10 million in capital does not want to liquidate or reallocate any of his capital toward bitcoin, then he may well be faced with figuring out how to deal with his cashflow and expenses, which are similar kinds of issues that others have, yet the fact that you ar mentioning his high level of capital causes me to consider that you believe that he has the ability to allocate into bitcoin with some or all of that capital.


There are folks getting into bitcoin all time, and they are doing it in various kinds of ways, yet at the same time, there are a lot of folks, even folks with a lot of capital and a lot of income who still are either not convinced about bitcoin or they might believe they might believe they are too late.

Sure, more and more rich folks are finding out about bitcoin, and considering it as an investment option, yet we still have a pretty level of adoption, even amongst rich people.


Sure, you may well be presuming that since they might be able to do a lump sum, that they would do a lump sum investment style to get in, and that is not necessarily going to be the case.  Some rich folks try to be careful about creating taxable events, so if they have to sell another asset in order to get into bitcoin, they might prefer to DCA into whatever they are adding rather than doing lump sum, yet surely they have to figure out their own reallocation and perhaps how much they might have in cash versus in assets that might create taxable events if they sell and reallocate into bitcoin.


Rich people are faced with the same dilemma as everyone else when they are new to an investment like bitcoin, and even if they have an opportutnity to completely invest right away with lump summing, they might choose to allocate some of that for buying on dips and/or DCAing, even if they might be DCAing with thousands or tens of thousands per week rather than lower amounts.

They also be a bit less price sensitive, and they might spread their DCAs out to be monthly or quarterly, yet they could potentially front load with a buy like buying $1million within a week or two...and then considering their DCA'ing and/or buying on dips from there.  They might execute their own trades or they might give instructions regarding how to get their price exposure, maybe even ONLY recently learning about bitcoin from a Registered Investment Advisor (RIA) in terms of bitcoin coming available within their investment accounts (presumptively through some of the spot ETFs that are only recently getting added into some of the accounts that some rich folks might have.

There is one thing that I want you to understand in bitcoin: no matter what when you are investing, that doesn’t mean that you will have nothing to you for your personal self, or that means you should not enjoy yourself. No, even though we all know that we need profit in bitcoin and we want the investment, we still have to invest the money that we can afford losing. That is the point, and if you restrict yourself from having all that you are already using just for the sake of investment, then what do you think will happen if someone happens to your investment? Even though we know that bitcoin is the number one trusted and reliable cryptocurrency to invest in without panicking about anything, that doesn’t mean you will always have a profit. Time will come that you will also lose, even though it is not much, but sometimes it tends to be much. 
 
All I want you to understand is that when I invest in bitcoin, you should always know that you don’t have to break yourself or your bank to achieve that because you will end up selling to fix other problems, and from there, that has affected your investment for a long time, so let us know what we are doing in the crypto space. 
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First we are not talking about crypto and shitcoins in this thread, so if you were talking about investing into bitcoin, then it probably would be better for you to use the word bitcoin so we know what you are referring to.

Second, your points are fair in regards to guys making sure that they pace themselves in their investment into bitcoin, and anticipate ups and downs in the BTC price and the potential that their holdings might not be in profits in the first 4 years, and perhaps even longer than that or at various points after going through the first whole cycle of accumulating bitcoin.

i think that many guys participating in this thread are already presuming at least a 4 year investment horizon, and many are considering 4-10 years or longer, yet sure, even a long term investment horizon does not guarantee that the BTC holdings will be in profits, so guys have to make sure that they are investing an amount that they can afford to lose in regards to the possibility that the BTC holdings could go to zero, but also .. surely many of us consider bitcoin to be amongst the best if not the best place to be putting value, yet, we still have to invest within our discretionary income and have various back up funds and even attempting to make our cashflow management strong so that we do not have to sell bitcoin at a time that is anything other than our own choosing.


I had not been suggesting that anyone would be locked into any exact plan without any discretion, yet even though a newbie might want to lock himself into a strict and scheduled DCA plan for a specific amount of time, so then he might not end up having extra funds for buying extra during any dip that he might perceive.

On the other hand, depending on the newbie's financial status, it might not take very long for him to front load his BTC investment in such a way that he starts to feel that he has the luxury to hold some funds on the side for buying on dips.

I think that many of us in this thread appreciate that buying on dips is usually not a coming out of the gate strategy for accumulating BTC unless you have already bought some BTC or if you happen to come into BTC while the BTC price is falling (or not stable) yet an overwhelming majority of the time, no newbie (or even experienced) bitcoiner is going to have hardly any clue in regards to whether the bitcoin price is dipping or not or going to dip, so most times, the newbie is going to be better off by buying some bitcoin first, before even considering employing a buying on the dip strategy.

I think that many of us know that a no coiner or even low coiner should not be employing waiting strategies when it comes to first getting started in bitcoin, but once he bought some bitcoin (whether front loaded or not), he is going to have more luxuries to consider supplementing whatever had been his initial accumulation approach with buying the dip strategies.

Another thing is that guys, newbies, nocoiners can do whatever they like, even if they do dumb things like starting out their bitcoin investment journey by considering that they need to wait for a good entrance point, and personally, I consider that to be a dumb approach, even though each of us is free to do what we like, including dumb things.  We are ultimately responsible for our own investment choices (including our choices to employ waiting as a BTC investment strategy), and also experiencing regrets, if we had happened to be sitting on a decent amount of extra cash last August/September/October and the BTC prices was bouncing in the $25ks to $27ks and we were waiting for more dip into the lower $20ks rather than using some of our extra cash to buy BTC at that time.. those are our own choices regarding how to employ our extra cash when we have it and if we believe that we are sufficiently prepared for UP while we are hoping for (or assigning high weights to our expectation for) more down..

 👍

I'm not saying that you're wrong or that one investment strategy is better than the other. I was merely stating a point that if given an opportunity to purchase Bitcoin with a discount, big or small, they should always take it to get more units in Bitcoin than if they have purchased it without the discount. If the main strategy is a scheduled-DCA, sometimes it might be better to break the schedule to take advantage of the discount.

If you have disposable income to manage long term investment and accordingly should be decide to accumulate Bitcoin using the DCA method. This method can keep up with your family's daily needs as well as recommend a regular deposit of bitcoins that will grow over time and if you can run multiple cycles, you can become a large holder. The process of running the DCA method in moderation gradually increases the size of your Bitcoin based on the surrounding equity.

That's right everyone who wants to run an investment of course they must have a good plan before deciding to run their investment in order to run it well because if not then the investment that we will run will not be able to generate profits of course this is not the goal of everyone who invests, so having the right plan before deciding to run an investment of course this will be very important and to be able to design an investment plan of course this requires good knowledge and experience in this field because without knowledge of course we will not be able to make a good investment plan.

And to be able to run the DCA method, of course we must be able to allocate funds for each purchase date and this will be very important for us to be able to run the method consistently, because without having funds ready for us to invest in the long term, I think it will be difficult to be able to run the method well.

I've always had my reservations with cutting down fat to maintain a process and I'm always of the opinion that you mut not harm your lifestyle in order to contain a new profitable activity, you can do more to make more money and dedicate the extra funds to the new process and in this case investing in bitcoin.

for example, if you are a person who hates working overtime at your work place and you are living fine with it and then you decide to start your DCA journey, you can do it without harming your living standards, you can do as little as taking the overtime duration of work and dedicate the funds solely to your accumulation journey, that way you are able to separate concerns and being very specific with your investment funds and also your accumulation journey would be smooth while you maintain your living standards.

In the case of no overtime jobs, you could even take up a side hustle and dedicate two or three hours a day to it for your periodic accumulation of bitcoin. You should thrive to make more money to cushion a new responsibility so as not to contain the mentality of always having to discomfort yourself in order to entertain every new responsibility that comes your way as a person. The side effects of always discomforting yourself is that you can get fed-up with always being the victim and disengage yourself with everything that brings about much discomfort to you, but when you are always crafty and making more money, you have a lot of fun on the way, sort yourself out easily and your individual effective adaptation quality increases.

But I can be sure that if a person has spent such extra money before investing in Bitcoin, then after investing in Bitcoin with DCA method he will definitely stop spending extra money on investment. And will try harder to earn cash, because if he invests in bitcoin, he will get attention by watching bitcoin investment again and again.  

Because his extra spending money will keep piling up, creating this attitude and trying to hold on to the investment for longer because he thinks that the more bitcoins I cash in, the more I will gain. So investing in Bitcoin always determines the positive side, which is why any person who participates in this investment will not want to go back but will try to invest more.


But if you can invest in Bitcoin by adopting all these methods then it will be possible to survive for a long time. You can invest bitcoins with confidence and help your investment to last for a long time, everyone will be successful for sure.

Really you have mentioned a very great point which is definitely true, if one invests on other basis then surely it will be a real investment and it will last for a long time. Usually the most important thing in investing is strategy and planning, how to make your investment long-term is completely based on this DCA strategy. Because here both old and new investors will benefit from using this DCA strategy to maintain their hold for a long time.

There is one thing that I want you to understand in bitcoin: no matter what when you are investing, that doesn’t mean that you will have nothing to you for your personal self, or that means you should not enjoy yourself. No, even though we all know that we need profit in bitcoin and we want the investment, we still have to invest the money that we can afford losing. That is the point, and if you restrict yourself from having all that you are already using just for the sake of investment, then what do you think will happen if someone happens to your investment? Even though we know that bitcoin is the number one trusted and reliable cryptocurrency to invest in without panicking about anything, that doesn’t mean you will always have a profit. Time will come that you will also lose, even though it is not much, but sometimes it tends to be much. 
 
All I want you to understand is that when I invest in bitcoin, you should always know that you don’t have to break yourself or your bank to achieve that because you will end up selling to fix other problems, and from there, that has affected your investment for a long time, so let us know what we are doing in the crypto space. 

Under such circumstances would an investor think that they are in good hands in the decisions they make?
Of course they will be wary of a reversal of direction if they have thought about it beforehand so that the steps they will take will certainly follow up with DCA if that happens.
I often think for those who have large capital, for example $10 million, they will easily implement a purchase plan at a cheap price point like last year when the price of bitcoin was below $30k.
But at the same time they didn't and what a mistake, but they executed this year at $60k.
Even though it is their principle to execute now, if they did it last year of course they would get double the ownership compared to today's price.
However, maybe it was their mistake or at that time they were still not ready to do it.
I also see many big companies continuing to buy bitcoin when the price is rising, is that a good decision if they can wait for the low price to get more btc. In principle, sometimes investors don't dare to do it when they have the opportunity to execute at a cheap price. But they wait more and the days pass quickly when BTC has managed to turn things around and they regret not having made a purchase when the price fell.

There must be some income weekly or monthly dedicated for investment in Bitcoin. Once share for Bitcoin is finalised one has to cut his extra spending's if he want to regularly invest in Bitcoin. One can made cut on some dinners at restaurants or what ever he thinks is extra spending. If you never cut your spending's then you can't find cash for Bitcoin. Having said that if we do a sacrifice on our extra spending's today then there is bright chance that our future will be bright. If someone has any doubt about that then he must refer to Bitcoin historical price chart. 

There are a lot of ways that a person could end up "overdoing" his investment into bitcoin in a lump sum form without necessarily dipping into any backup funds, and he might even had completely stayed within his discretionary fund too, and still ended up overdoing it in terms of other options that might have had been available to him.

My point is that a guy might come to various kinds of balances within his budgeting and his authorization, and even if we go with an example of a guy who might have gotten into bitcoin with $12k of available funds, and he had $200 per week that he could buy bitcoin with his regular salary through DCA and he also has sufficient backup funds (emergency, reserves and float), and so instead of dividing his extra $12k into three parts (DCA, lump sum and buying on dip), he decides to invest all of the $12k right away, and so in that example he is totally within his discretionary income and within his range of options to invest all of the $12k right away... and there is nothing really wrong with his choice, but then when the BTC price goes down instead of up, he might have regrets that he had not planned more deliberately and accounted for either price direction.. So the level of his "overdoing it" still is not really damaging him in any great way, but he just had not realized his mistake until the price went down and then he realized that he had not even really thought about preparing for that possibility with the extra $12k that he had, and so he can still buy $200 per week with his regular DCA as compared to with other options that he would have had available if he had at least considered dividing the $12k into 3 parts, and I am not even saying that there is any exact correct answer since a guy could still consider the dividing the $12k into three parts and still come to a conclusion to buy $12k worth of bitcoin right away and have his $200 per week DCA amount serve as any kind of buying on dip that might end up happening..



You are not wrong.  You are just using a more extreme version of making a mistake than what I had suggested to be the scenario, especially since guys can purposefully choose to overinvest in a kind of lump sum way, yet without tapping into their back up funds or even going beyond their discretionary income, but then still realizing that they had overdone it in terms of their own standards, so they won't necessarily have a lot of losses from the mistake, but might realize that the next time that they get a lump sum amount of money that they are able to invest, that they consider the three options, and sure, maybe in the future, they might still invest $9k of the $12k right away and only put $1,500 into each of the categories of buying the dip and adding to their regular DCA for 3 months or whatever period they decide to divide out the $1,500 that they are adding to their regular DCA amount - maybe it is 15 weeks (add $100 per week for DCA).. and then maybe with the buying on dip, they spread out $300 buy orders every $2k drop for the next $10k. whether the BTC price is going to drop or not, that is how they decided to allocate their buy on dip amounts.. so they end up still feeling better about their whole decision regarding how to treat the allocation of their extra $12k lump sum amount with only $9k of it being used to buy BTC right away, rather than $12k being used to buy BTC right away.


When a guy is fairly early on in his BTC accumulation journey, he may already have established a DCA amount that he is doing regularly, and even if he is first getting into bitcoin, he might start with a lump sum and want to decide how to allocate that lump sum and whether he might also consider to continue to DCA too, since it is a bit more burdensome to attempt to front load or to even loan against his regular cashflow, and so a guy might get eager to get into bitcoin and to have some kind of a front loading into the bitcoin investment in order to prepare for up.. .. yet at the same time, he has to consider his own limits in terms of how much to maybe hold in reserves and if he considers that his regular DCA ($200 per week in my above example) is going to cover any of his concerns for dips. 

So then the brand new investor might be in a bit of a different position in terms of how to treat any lump sum amounts that he might have available, as compared with the investor who might come across extra money 6 months to 12 months to 24 months after he had already been investing in bitcoin, since the one who gets some kind of extra lump sum amount later down the road, his already having had established some kind of a bitcoin accumulation amount, might contribute towards his feeling less urgent about any need that he might feel to have about preparing for UP as compared to a newbie who might not hardly have any BTC already purchased.  Any of the levels of BTC accumulation already done could still result in a guy making mistakes in his calculations and maybe overdoing his investment and then realizing that he could have had divided it up differently, even though there is no perfect answer, there are some answers that are more suitable to his actual situation, and it is better if he considers the three categories, even if he might still be weighted towards one part or another partly depending on how many coins he already had accumulated.


A minimum investment amount likely would work better for those in their earliest times of getting into DCAing and perhaps even someone who is also relatively passive and whimpy, so forcing themselves to invest a certain amount every week no matter what.  So then yeah, the one who might add to the DCA amount during some weeks and then just keeping the regular minimum investment amount no matter what, those persons could also have weeks where they are able to be more aggressive in their BTC investment including supplementing their weekly DCA amounts, as you mentioned.


For sure, there are levels of cashflow irregularities, and some of the irregularities are within predicted parameters such as changes in expenses or even 1 or 2 surprise bills that might end up being covered by float and/or by reserve funds without having to dip into emergency funds and/or without having to even make adjustments to the minimum DCA, if that amount had been set for $50 per week.

Other cases of a lost job may or may not end up resulting in the need to discontinue DCA, depending on the extent to which reserves might be sufficiently present and the odds of getting another job within a time frame that any of your funds might still be sufficient, but yeah, there could be situations in which the funds are not sufficient and the prospects of replacing the income from the job might not be high, and that might call for much more drastic measures, which include discontinuing or lowering DCA amounts... I tend to think that any time emergency funds might start to get dipped into, then DCA would have been cut prior to dipping into emergency funds, but surely guys could have different parameters in terms of how to treat the matters, and how much depletion of funds require more drastic measures.


Of course, we set our own rules and parameters which we can amend from time to time based on our priorities, and some guys might consider rolling over of funds from week to week to be o.k, and other guys might not tend to allow rolling over absent certain circumstances that he finds acceptable.   Some guys might be used to having a lot of jobs and cashflows, so they might not get too worked up about the loss of any of their cashflows, but if they get injured and all of their cashflows dry up, they might have to reconsider their own past practices, including that some guys do not keep much if any backup funds because they consider their various sources of cashflows to be sufficient as back up funds, which might not end up working out so well for them if some unexpected circumstances might end up causing more of their cashflows to dry up than they had anticipated to be likely.

There could be guys who are pretty loosey goosey with all of their rules, yet they still might know that if they end up dipping into a certain amount of money that they have on reserves, then it becomes time for them to start to buckle down and become more strict with their spending until they return back up a certain amount of funds that they keep as their cushion or their layers of cushion... their cushion might be strictly in cash, or they might have other places that they hold their cushion, but if they end up having to use some of their cash, then they know that they have to access some of their other cash that might have a time delay in retrieving it.. .. so warning bells go off at certain thresholds of using up cushion/backup funds.

I don't know when you join the discussion but just so you know, there are concepts recommended for anyone who want to invest in Bitcoin that will enable them invest in such a way that they can hold comfortably without yielding to the pressure to sell. One of such concept is setting up emergency funds, which is a fund that will cover unplanned things that can require the investor to settle during the course of the investment. This emergency funds is different from the money meant to cover the basic needs such as food, shelter and others. Emergency fund is entirely different and must be set asset as a protection of the investment because without it, the investor might sell his Bitcoin when there is emergency that cannot wait. So the planning process is where the emergency funds are accounted for.

An investor waiting for the dip would have made provisions for the funds different from the emergency fund and even the amount for DCA for those also applying the DCA. Investment is better planned so that it can be implemented adequately

I never think like that about other people's plans and income through anything because everyone is always free to use their own income for whatever they want because when they go bankrupt and feel difficult, they also do not ask for help that is so meaningful to us. But your suggestion to invite more people to invest in Bitcoin by mapping their own income so they can invest better is a very good suggestion and I also quite agree with it.

But you also need to know that current investors who have been involved in Bitcoin investment for quite a long time must always map their own income every month so we cannot judge everyone as having made a mistake by not evaluating their income. Because smart investors will always do this and will not spend money carelessly on unimportant things or on things they don't need in their lives.

One needs to keep his or her self in check, one don't need to use money anyhow with proper planning, before you thinking about taking advantage of the dip first of all check if after using above your regular percentage for investment if it will affect you financially and if yes avoid that particular dip and focus on your normal investment strategy to avoid getting into a fuck you state which will now lead you to dip hands into your investment.
Some people don't plan out how there salary or income will run for that week or month, they spend without proper evaluation and that is why they always go broke even before receiving there next salary, which is not a good one and I think we should encourage every investor especially the newbies to always map out how there income will run for the week or month how to fix in there income percentage to every place needed.

Nice instances you've go there, but in my own reasoning, the only scenario that has to actively affect the investor's accumulation journey for a period of time is when the investor looses his source of livelihood, then he might take a temporal break until he gains his ground and resumes his accumulation journey.

Addressing that of when the investor has a lot of expenses or was not able to buy at the base price as @Sticky Bomb illustrates, the best thing is to buy as much as he can for that week and note down the makeup amount and roll it over to the next week or thereabout, maybe he was able to buy $30 worth of bitcoin for this week, then in his accumulation record book, he should push the balance to the next week indicating a purchase of $70 to offset the previous week if he is still able to maintain that base price, where he cannot, he should be adjust the base amount to any amount he is comfortable with. the most important thing is to set standards and follow suit to maintain discipline and consistency in the accumulation journey. Base price is a rule and can be amended to suit the investor's capacities.

The most Important thing is that he does not stop buying, remains disciplined, committed and accountable to himself and does not leave his accumulation journey to chances but follows some standards set by him to guide him in the accumulation journey. It is good to always know what you are expecting from yourself  and it will motivate you to do even more than average, there is a saying that if you aim for the moon, even if you are falling, you fall among the stars meaning that worse comes to worse, he settles for the base price.

Of course, it is good to assign a fixed amount from our discretionary income into regular buying of bitcoin through DCA weekly or monthly but sometimes this might not be possible because it is not of our own control but based on our expenses that arises in different weeks. If you observe sometimes we might spend more than what we budget for the week due to increase in our needs for that week and sometimes we might spend less due to decrease in our weekly expenses.

In such scenarios the investor might choose to invest $50 weekly but when the expenses of his needs increases, he can cut down his DCA amount to $40 for that week and if his expenses on another week decreases, he might increase his DCA amount to $60. The most important thing is that the investor did not stop buying but continues buying no matter how small he could buy in a week.

Also an investor might have an increament in his monthly income, or has an additional means of income along the line of his bitcoin accumulation journey, he will increase the amount that he is using to DCA in order for him to buy bitcoin more aggressively as long as he did not over do it.

There can also be a case where an investor did not have any discretionary income on that week because of too much responsibility for the week and his discretionary income was exhausted, such investor don't need to worry that he did not buy bitcoin for that week and he will just hodli and buy the next week. Another scenario is if the investor loses his job at that moment, he is to pause his bitcoin accumulation until he gets a new job while he feeds with his emergency funds and reserve for the main time till he gets a new job and continue accumulating. If you have the funds to keep on buying don't stop just keep on buying.

Sometimes this is the reason why those people break out, since they think that those threshold they wait is already a good price to hit then accumulated. While there's certain situation where market dumps more and this scenario make those people scare and decide to dump since they can't take to see more negatives coming their way. So in this cases they should know that situation like this really happens that's why sometimes its no sense to wait for the dip since since it will just bother and can affect their decisions. That's why I would agree for some people say that its good to accumulate when you are ready and have funds to spend since even if bitcoin would dump more, we are still fine since we can accumulate at what bitcoin price level reached.

There's no really exact formula on this that's why they just need to be consistent on the actions they made so that everything would be fine on their investment. Because if they keep waiting for the dip then,  they might miss some opportunity to add some balance on their holdings. Maybe they might carried away by more dump then get afraid to buy since those waiting game that they do became one of the reason to lose their confidence to continue.

In my opinion, those who consider the price of Bitcoin before investing are those who do not have enough money or are afraid of losing the money they are going to invest. No one would be happy if they lost their money investing, but they already understand the risk involved in Bitcoin trading, which is why they aren't afraid when the price is down, what I would like some people to understand about Bitcoin is that it's worth is different from other kinds of investments that people have lost their money. However, I haven't heard of someone who's a professional in Bitcoin investment complaining that they lost their money, except they weren't advised by the right person before starting the investment.

When someone has the money and knows the risk involved in Bitcoin investment, they are free to buy as much as they can regardless of the price, even though the Bitcoin price is unpredictable, and nobody has any idea how high it will be in years to come, everyone who invests believes that the Bitcoin price will rise more than we can think.