Topic: Buy the DIP, and HODL! - page 167. (Read 142622 times)

Investing in Bitcoin for short terms puts the investor in a big pressure, because the investor knows that they aren't going to invest on Bitcoin for long term and all their mindsets is just that Bitcoin should continue to go higher instead of dipping any time soon. However, short term investment isn't the good way to invest in Bitcoin because you aren't going to witness more buying opportunities.
Well, talking about trading, I see that as also a short term investment and it has the highest risks because you might lose your capital within some seconds. But when you invest on Bitcoin for long term you aren't going to lose that much money and even if Bitcoin dips and you lose some money, you only have to give it some days for it to increase again (most times it takes few hours for it to increase again) and you will gain back your money. Meanwhile, on the other hand, the DIPs is also a good opportunity that we all should use to accumulate more Bitcoin into our portfolio for the long term.

Cash flow management is certainly an important part that must be understood as well as possible when investing. Of course sometimes many of them fail to understand as well as possible and perhaps this is the description I have done so far. In the weekly purchases I make I will never miss it and that is an important point in DCA. Secondly, when the market is uncertain or tends to fall during that week, I use my reserve funds to double my purchases at that time. Third, the emergency fund may not be touched if it is not too urgent, which means that as long as we are in a stable financial position, of course we will not use the emergency fund. If this can be understood, it is possible that long-term investment planning can go according to what we planned.

To that extent, I will not measure success or success in the near future because that will make us turn in another direction, meaning we could be lulled by short-term profits and that could make the investment journey messy.

As long as our target has not been achieved, there is no satisfaction to dream of, meaning we will continue to follow up on DCA according to our plan, be it 5 years or 10 years, and if that has been achieved, there will be a sense of satisfaction and success that we carried out long ago.

In essence, success will be in line with our enthusiasm, where if we continue to accumulate bitcoins every week, the opportunity for success in the future will be achieved, in other words, we will be satisfied with what we have done.

On the one hand, stay relaxed when carrying out long-term investments, don't be too selfish because if you are selfish your cash flow will be messy.

I know that with proper knowledge of trading, someone has some chances of making a profit from Bitcoin. However, what I know is that it can't always be profitable, and sometimes even those with proper knowledge also lose money. In fact, if we check some traders claiming to be good, and if we examine the profits they make over a year, many of the profits aren't even more than 10% of their capital. This is because, as they make profits, they also incur losses. In fact, some of them don't even make a profit over the years because they encounter big losses when they least expect them. However, since they continually add more money to their trading accounts, they may not feel much of losing as they due make some like profits sometimes.

To be honest, long-term investment is far better than trading because the risk of investing is less compared to trading. If someone can keep accumulating Bitcoin for, say, 15 years, they could potentially make a very reasonable amount of profit, which many traders may not achieve. Let's just imagine those early investors who kept accumulating Bitcoin over the last 10 or 8 years how much do we think they would have in their wallets by now? 

This above response is correct.


This is a strange way of outlining what may or may not be successful since there are variations of success including the ways that individuals make their choices to tailor what they invest in and how they manage their cashflows in light of their own risk tolerance, so their level of aggressiveness after they had identified a good investment (such as investing in bitcoin, since that is what we are talking about here), there still can be levels of aggressiveness or whimpiness within correct applications in regards to accumulating bitcoin, and outcomes might vary quite a bit, even within variations of correct applications of good practices, even though each person might also be able to claim success within his own parameters of how much and how he was willing to apply similar strategies and to purposefully come to different balances when his financial circumstances might have had been very similar to another person who might have had been more whimpy in his BTC accumulation approach or might have been more aggressive than the person with comparable starting financial circumstances.  

There is also a lot of discretion in regards to cashflow management and determining how much to keep within various backup fund categories, and a lot of the variations could be correct and/or within discretionary but acceptable parameters.

Mere financial success in terms of the outcome of how much money is in the bank (or how many bitcoin in the wallet) might not be exactly an appropriate comparison of which version is more successful if each person might have applied his own BTC accumulation strategy and cashflow management to his best of abilities and his individual factors, but still each could have made various errors along the way too that may or may not have ended up materially affecting the results...

We would have to know more before we might presume certain kinds of financial outcomes would be considered to be more successful than others as long as each of the ones who are buying the bitcoin are tailoring their own balances of good practices to their own circumstances...and success is not even guaranteed, either... even if someone does everything correct, success is not guaranteed, even if they choose bitcoin as their primary investment vehicle or they might even choose certain ways to hedge their bets in ways that are very smart and prudent, but they still are not guaranteed success even if they do everything correctly.

Don't count me as overly pessimistic, since I include myself in the camp that guys increase their chances of success when they plan, prepare and even act in accordance with good practices, and they surely have more likelihood for success as compared with the guy who does not plan, prepare and act in responsible ways.. yet surely there are always going to be exceptions in either direction, yet from my own perspective there are a lot of advantages in planning and acting in accordance with plans, especially when it comes to cashflow management and investing.

By the way, I edited and added a question ("which one would you rather be?") to my above post.

Let us not deviate from the purpose of the thread, we are discussing about investing in bitcoin and not trading them for short term or long term as an alternative to get profit from them. Trading is risky and investing in bitcoin is not as same as trading. With an already established mindset to focus on investment, you need not to be worry about what will cost you your money being at risk of losing it or not. Long term investment in bitcoin is proven to be the safest way to earn profit from this investment, so sticking to it will give a good outcome to your investment instead of regrets of having to use another method to earn profit from bitcoin.


Lump sum can be done at anytime and it doesn’t matter the market condition at the time of doing it. Lump sum is another strategy you can use to accumulate bitcoin and being a starter pack strategy to some depending on their income, it gives room to accumulate some reasonable amount of bitcoin at a start and continue DCAing subsequently to continue growing your portfolio if you can’t keep up with lump sum from time to time. All strategies are good, you just have to check the one that best suit your means of income and apply it.

In as much as everyone has their own strategy I still think one can actually make a great investment or success using other strategy provided the person is capable of handling the strategy I mean this is Bitcoin investment not ordinary business investment where luck and grace follows sometimes. In Bitcoin investment, whatever you invest, you are going to make profit according to that likewise anyone who invest with same capital and same period of time. Adapting to other strategy or chosing other strategy depend on the capacity of the person. For example I can leave DCA and decide to be buying lump sum if I have what it takes. I believe we have three strategy which includes:
1. Lump sum or lump summing
2. Buy Dip
3. DCA
Then again, these above mentioned I don't think it's belongs to a particular person because I believe some investors rotate on this strategies so I don't know if there is any other personal strategy you are talking about and if there's please I want to know.

Your statement is not correct. People who invest with lump sum don't always invest during the DIP alone, they invest in bitcoin whenever they have the funds ready available. It all depends on the prevailing market conditions at the time the investor wants to make his purchase. Your statement can be misleading especially to newbies and visitors of the thread.

If two or more investor follow the same investment strategy and all of them observe the principle guiding the investment method correctly, they are all going to be successful with that investment. The only difference in their level of success will depend on the capital invested and maturity dates. These methods of investment has their guiding principles, these principles are there for anyone who follows it correctly to succeed. You will only fail to succeed from it if you don't follow the principles correctly.

This is not about trading, but more about buying and holding it as clearly stated in the topic of discussion so that people who like to buy Bitcoin and like to hold it for the long term will definitely prepare everything that will not interfere with their steps for this such as providing reserve funds for certain needs so that we can hold Bitcoin with sufficient focus and also quite safely. And anyone can do more work in their life, but for buying Bitcoin and holding it in the long term must be done separately without having to mix it with other work. Because everyone must have a focus on whatever work they are doing at the moment, including when they want to buy Bitcoin with a certain accumulation.

For sure there are variations on strategies and even variations on personal circumstances, and of course if someone mostly lump sum bought bitcoin in 2015 then they could have paid anywhere between $200 and $300 per bitcoin, so let's just say that your friend got somewhere between 17 BTC and 24 BTC for his $5k.  

I still consider the lump sum investor who sat on his investment for around 9 years to be a bit of a whimpy investor without enough confidence to keep buying bitcoin, even though some kind of a relatively whimpy approach to bitcoin investing still ended up paying off quite well for him.

I would suggest that if he had $5k to initially invest into bitcoin, he may well could have also had some kind of a DCA amount that he could have also continued to have had invested into bitcoin, such as $50 per week or something like that, so if he had continued to buy $50 per week of bitcoin for the past 9 years starting from August 22,2015 until today, he would have invested an additional $23,500 and he would have accumulated an additional 10.09 BTC, which surely would have had not been a bad place to be (even an improved place without necessarily costing too much to achieve it).

Surely the first purchases of $5k had allowed for the buying of much more BTC for a lower average cost than the later DCA amounts, yet the DCA still could supplement the initial purchase and put the guy in a much stronger financial situation.. which would have had been 27 to 34 BTC for a total purchase price of right around $28,500 invested.... but yeah people make their choices regarding how much bitcoin they might consider to be enough for their own financial, psychological and/or life circumstances.


Edited  - added the below question:  
Let's say that you were in your late 20s in 2015 and now in 2024, you are in your late 30s.  Which one of the above two would you rather be?

Would you rather be the guy:

1) who spent $5k and had somewhere between 17 BTC and 24 BTC (with an average cost per BTC of between $200 and $300)

or

2) who spent $28,500 and had somewhere between 27 BTC and 34 BTC (with an average cost per BTC between $838 and $1,056)?

I would speculate that many of us would prefer to have ended up accumulating more BTC, even if our average cost per BTC might have ended up being higher within some of the scenarios as compared to other scenarios in which we had fewer BTC and also lower costs per BTC.  In the above scenario, I am suggesting ONLY the addition of $50 per week of DCA, which surely should have had been in the grasp of someone who made a choice to lump sum invest around $5k.. I am not suggesting to gamble or to go out of our way in any kind of way to put stresses on our cashflow.  Surely, I could have had come up with other scenarios in which the guy invested less than $5k lump sum and then reserved some of the money to DCA and buy on dips, yet we really don't know enough about the guy that DubemIfedigbo001n had presented to us.... including that surely it would have had been quite fortunate to start your bitcoin investment during a bottom period, which I believe most of 2015 would have subsequently been deemed to be a bottom period, even though when going through the period, there is really no way of completely knowing if the bottom is in or not.



Part of the dynamic that you describe I_Anime relates to position size too.  A person who attempts to invest in lump sum and who does not have a plan to keep buying when the BTC price falls has put himself into a position in which he had not been prepared and he had overinvested, so it seems that anyone lump summing should be prepared to continue to buy if the BTC price moves against them (meaning down), and so they should already budget the possibility of a dip into their plans... otherwise they likely are not prepared, and the only other option in order to not fit the category of "overinvested" is to just plan to hold through the dip, which could take a while to play out, even several years.. so that could be problematic for anyone who had invested into something like bitcoin but did not have enough conviction to be able to hold through (including having in mind that the investment could go to zero...and to be prepared for such in terms of the amount that had initially been invested into bitcoin).

Everyone has their own strategy when it comes to investing and I certainly appreciate the fact that everyone invests in their own strategy. If we follow others directly in the field of investment then we will never be satisfied with our investment because if one person is successful by investing in different strategy, I may not be successful by investing in the same strategy. As I think that when the market is dumping it will be a good opportunity for us to invest, other investors may not take it well that is their personal matter. But any investor irrespective of the strategy should invest in DCA strategy as it is a very effective investment strategy.  Investing in this strategy ensures continuity of investment as well as inculcates in us a belief in the investment that belief helps us reach the pinnacle of success.

Yea that's the truth, what I understand about lump sum buying is that it all depends on the amount in your custody that you can to in a particular time, an investor that bought in a lump sum may not continue that way hence he has actually gotten what he want at a particular period of time, such individual may continue accumulating with DCA method as you said.
Let's not also forget that people that buy in lump sum always do it when there is Bitcoin price dip and I believe this people utilize this opportunity to buy a large amount not necessarily because they don't make use of DCA method for gradual and steady accumulation of Bitcoin but for the fact that they can really actualize huge amount of Bitcoin at a cheap price in the said time, they decide to buy with large sum and also continue with their previous method of accumulation.
In Bitcoin investment what matters most is the ability of individuals knowing what they actually want, I think the set of people that benefits most in Bitcoin investment are those people that has channelled their mind to long-term knowing fully well that it is the goal that every bitcoiner should go for, the aim of every bitcoiners is to buy Bitcoin with good investment method that will continue making them relevant in the system as they keep holding for the long-term benefit.

Although, shitcoiners could make/invent the same debate/argument about their shitcoins, my counter-argument for THAT is - For an investment strategy of Buy the DIP/DCA, and HODL with low time preference, we need to be HODLing the asset that will actually continue to exist in 10 to 20 years. That's Bitcoin, the others in crypto are risky and MOST might start dying after 2 or 3 cycles.

To me short-term investment ain't encouraging at all the risk in it alone is too much compare to that of long-term investment. Like for instance someone that lacks the ability to be patient (because I believe short-term investors are really impatient) , and endup buying bitcoin at the peak and then a massive dip followed it , that individual won't have the mindset to keep buying and holding instead he or she will endup selling in loss because they lack the patient, thinking he or she has cut their losses.

But for those that are into long-term investment, instead of selling in loss they will continue to buy the dip , because they believe in a long run they will endup with the last laugh , so they will keep accumulating and holding , and if later on the price's endup risen (surging) they will endup with a far better profits.

Emergency funds is a necessity for every human being that can allow themselves to create that purse. It’s always life saving as, having to beacon on friends and family for aids or even going through the processes to take loans isn’t always an easy going one.

Then again, I don’t think you really do have to wait until you’ve got enough funds to invest. When is funds ever said to be enough? You get to create that enough else, it’s never enough. There is always needs and wants that you wish to satisfy with what you’ve got, it’s always up to you to create that space to accommodate investments.

The whole people might actually hoard money is the time you out to have put that money in the Bitcoin market, get some coins and leave it be in your non custodial wallet. Bitcoin doesn’t segregate on amount, you buy and be ready to hold for a long time, that works.

An investor will never make an investment based on your information, so I do not agree with such information, because the DCA method leads all investors to success and controls the price of buying Bitcoin. An investor if he invests according to DCA method he will never face crowd in any market if he holds for a long time. Both new and old investors can follow the DCA method, but success is possible if you keep it for a long time. 

Not all investors are hoarding money, especially those who have poor holders who can basically DCA Bitcoin by saving extra money from weekly or monthly expenses. So the DCA method is open to any investor using it with the highest number of successes.

It's not entirely true, lump summing is not for short term investment, it's to accumulate more stashes of Bitcoin at a time, most investors who've good finances and decide to engage in Bitcoin accumulation lump sum and then possibly follow up with DCA to further expand their portfolios.

Some investors lump sum, and are comfortable with their accumulated quantity, they send it to cold storage or decentralized wallets and starts holding for as long as they wish, some still lump sum and follow up with DCA to accumulate more, while some ignorantly buys and takes away short term profits. I still know some friends that bought little quantity and rushed to cash it in when they observed little profits and I call them Bitcoin gamblers and not investors. I've seen a friend who bought Bitcoin worth of $5k in 2015 and he has not bought any other. But he continues holding and he's happy his investment continues appreciating .

There's no criteria of people who engage in short term investment, it's just about making the right decision and having the patience and composure to hold for a long time for your investment to get very profitable.

I totally agree with you. To make money from trading we need to have right skills knowledge and plan. Investing in Bitcoin for short time is risky because its price change quickly which making it hard to make money fast. But if we hold  Bitcoin for long time we make profit.

I also like that you said planning and separating emergency money is important. We need to think carefully before investing and have some extra money set aside in case something unexpected happens. This way we can invest without worrying about losing money when we need it. Your advice is good and many of us can follow it.

You are right, indeed anyone can make a profit from trading as long as they have good skills and knowledge about trading and choosing to invest Bitcoin in the short term is highly discouraged because the price of Bitcoin is very volatile so this will be very unlikely to be able to generate profits in the short term, but it would be great if we continue to accumulate Bitcoin assets and hold them for a long time to be able to make a profit from holding these assets and we also have to keep planning before deciding to start in order to be able to run the investment properly, as you said it is very right we have to think about emergency funds so as not to interfere with the assets that we have invested when we suddenly need the funds.

I don’t think I get what you’re trying to point out with short term investment and the risk involve also owning enough money before anyone can invest using the short term strategy. Anyone can attach profit with trading but it’s never advisable an investor go into bitcoin with short term strategy which I think is right, if anyone should brag about their short term holdings you’ll definitely know an investor holding for long run will always make better profit. Secondly timing the volatility market when trying to accumulate bitcoin is wrong basically anyone can buy at any price interval and hold for long knowing bitcoin is a valuable asset, What you need to know about bitcoin short investment choice is you can’t get the profit you want within short period rather bitcoin market is volatile which brings benefits after investing for years.. Concerning emergency funds, emergency funds is like a back up funds and it’s a must  when investing for long term emergency funds is needed.

Of course there is no loss if they continue to hold bitcoin. Don't we see in the portfolio that our assets are in the form of Bitcoin, not an estimate of fiat value because we invest in Bitcoin. Logically, we continue to follow up on the investments we make, so it is not appropriate for us to measure losses when prices fall because we own Bitcoin completely, not the value of money that is our benchmark.

Of course, many of them sometimes misunderstand, but slowly they will understand the investment they are making. Because our target is to accumulate bitcoins until we are satisfied with our holdings. The price going down is quite natural because the market will never be stable because there are sellers and there are buyers.

For this reason, declines are always a good opportunity to continue accumulating bitcoin. The scenario we are buyers and we are investors and we are not traders so hold and buy until we are at the peak stage in accumulating bitcoin. The peak stage is the stage of our satisfaction as long as the target we set has been achieved.