Topic: Buy the DIP, and HODL! - page 398. (Read 123370 times)

Altcoins are a distraction for someone that's already invested in bitcoin, it is like having the original of a product and still spending money on the inferiors of it type when you know it can develop fault at any given time as a result of the inferiority in value and standardization of the product.

At first when I started to draw interest in cryptocurrency i started with alts they all didn't end well, the rug pulls were always short-timed, if I had started off with BTC would have had more portfolio in crypto than I do today. The losses weren't funny mate, I know what am talking about. So yeah, it's better to stay focused not considering any other alt.


No doubt bitcoin is potentially volatile with its own peculiar risk and returns but investing (diversifying) in other different projects that's not cryptocurrency is another form of expansion that returns made from there can be utilize into accumulating and increasing your bitcoin portfolio, in my opinion a good diversification can be a supportive ground for a bitcoin investor not to tamper with his bitcoin investment at any  financial emergency storm that might hit.

If the money is there enough to diversify the risk factor shouldn't be an excuse not to diversify. None diversification of businesses is like driving a car on along journey without having a spare tire with you for flat tire emergency along the long.

You know some times I do not blame such investors as they make haste into venturing into the market at times more aggressively than they should.
In a case where most persons are interested into buying Bitcoin and basically do not have enough for it at a time, eventually started a business which excavate their finance with the long interest to own Bitcoin they will definitely venture more aggressively into the market because that might be the only long lasting opportunity for them to buy Bitcoin.

Making the decision to just collect BTC would indeed be better, because we will focus more on that without thinking about other cryptocurrencies and at this time it would be very good if we could collect as much as we can so we can wait for the profits from the investment we can make. Maybe what is hampering some people at the moment is true, as you said, most people are experiencing economic difficulties, but if we can collect it, of course this will really help our economy.

Are you attempting to distinguish between someone who is just getting into bitcoin and investing versus someone who has been investing for a long time?  There's a difference.

Also if someone is investing $10 per week for 3 years.  Maybe the person makes around $400 per month, so $10 per week would be 10%.  So the $10 per week is also $520 per year and $1,560 after 3 years.  At what point is diversification necessary, if at all?   Remember we are likely also suggesting that such person makes sure that s/he has an extra cashflow and/or emergency fund that is somewhere between 3-6 months, so that might well be $1,200 to $1,600 in cash just for the cashflow, and then maybe some extra for an emergency fund, so maybe that could be $1,500 to $2k in cash or some other relatively liquid way of holding value.  Just having a cash fund is a kind of diversification, even though it is not likely to gain in value, but it offsets (and provides a safety net for the investment into bitcoin).


Why?  Isn't bitcoin potentially volatile enough?  What more "faster return" is necessary, and at what point would a person "need" to engage in such extra risk taking, when bitcoin is already risky?


Sure these kinds of other investments can be made, but at the same time, diversification is still not a beginning technique, it is likely something that comes after a decent amount of building up of the total investment portfolio, and if there is $1,500 or so in bitcoin and $1,500 or so in cash, then it would seem to be a distraction and even premature to be going into diversification ideas yet... I cannot really say how a person with around a $400 per month of income, which would be around $4,800 per year in income who is ONLY really putting aside around $10 per week into bitcoin is needing to really diversify prior to getting close to a whole year's income or perhaps more than that.

Yeah, there are plenty of other examples of incomes, but still diversification is not something that is necessary to do right from the start of an investment, it is something that may well come further down the road for someone who is in the earlier stages of building his/her investment portfolio, and it is a frequently a distraction that takes beginners away from the basic areas of building.. that are much more powerful than getting distracted into ideas of diversification for the sake of diversification.. which can really undermine smaller portfolios with those kinds of distractions.


We should hope that people are not necessarily stagnant in their cashflow, especially if they are starting out with mediocre levels of cashflow, so surely if there are opportunities to increase income then those can be good ways to increase the amounts that can be invested into bitcoin, but it still might not necessarily mean that there is any needs to get distracted away from bitcoin and cash until there is a certain level of wealth that is built up and that the level of wealth starts to justify investing in other areas rather than merely conjecturing that there is a need to diversify just because other people say it is a good idea, when it is not necessarily a good idea for guys with smaller investment portfolios and/or until they might build up their investment portfolio to a certain size that starts to justify some need to move in the direction of maybe adding another investment, and then maybe 5 years later adding another one.. so diversification does not tend to be anything that needs to be rushed into.. unless the BTC holdings are getting to be quite large.. maybe even 3-5x the size of an annual income, and so there will still be some individual determination when those kinds of needs to diversify are triggered..


Sure.  Nothing wrong with any of those kinds of scenarios and weighing of how to adjust allocations or figuring out where to put extra income or maybe even extra income might dry up in some circumstances as you mentioned, and there could be questions about whether to reduce or to completely stop BTC purchases for a period of time that may or may not be easy decisions to make..


Sure, there are frequently complexities for business opportunities that maybe or may not be worth the injection of capital to get into such operations, and sometimes there can be good opportunties, so we cannot weigh those kinds of trade offs in a thread like this, and we cannot necessarily assume, either, that it would automatically be better to get into a business rather than buying BTC with the extra capital.. it is not easy to know without getting into particulars of the business.. .

And as Salahmu mentioned in the next post, people will sometimes get distracted by supposed "business opportunities" and want to spend their bitcoin investment, which can be very tempting, but not necessarily a good idea for someone to get so excited about supposed opportunities that s/he has merely because s/he has savings and an investment in bitcoin that is generally growing and so dipping into it is tempting, but not be as good of an idea as continuing to build the bitcoin investment with out getting distracted... and of course, everyone has to figure out how to balance these kinds of temptations..and whether the opportunity that is presented is as great as it appears from the initial stages... but might not be so great after several years of wasting time in it..when you could have had been building your bitcoin holdings in other ways.  There is no exactly better choice, even though there likely can be due diligence difficulties that might even be more difficult to assess than assessing the putting of value into bitcoin.

If you are focused on BTC, I think it's better not to think about the outside anymore. Just BTC and search quickly to collect as much as possible in various ways. January 2024 is only a month and 6 days away and the issue of increasing BTC is also being discussed very intensively even in the midst of these uncertain economic conditions.

The advice you express is quite appropriate for many people to know, especially newbies who still like altcoins. Because maybe they still don't know how safe it is to invest in Bitcoin with the DCA strategy which is still widely used by investors today, so we need to provide that kind of understanding to those who still like altcoins so they can consider Bitcoin more when they want to invest, even though we not telling them to forget about altcoins. It's just that they can at least limit themselves to altcoins which frankly will not be as useful as Bitcoin which has been proven by many investors from the past until now.

There is no point in using all your money to invest in Bitcoin because there is no fixed level of investment in Bitcoin. A person can invest any amount of money in Bitcoin at any time. Since Bitcoin has the advantage of having a minimum amount of money to invest, an investor can invest in Bitcoin whenever he wants or feels he has the money to invest. There are many investors who keep putting money in one place to invest in Bitcoin but it is better if they keep investing in Bitcoin instead of putting money in one place. An investor does not need to invest such amount of money that he has to sell his investment later. 

If an investor wants to invest based on his monthly salary then he can continue his investment and he can make his investment long. If a person has a monthly salary of 300 dollars then from there he may spend 150 dollars for family management and out of the remaining 150 dollars he may have some savings and if he wants to invest the remaining money in Bitcoin. As long as an investor has a job, he can make this investment consistently and hold that investment. 

Just as a bee collects honey little by little and is able to accumulate a large amount of honey in its hive at a time, so an investor who invests little by little consistently will see his investment grow over time. 

In the initial stage an investor has to start investing later on he has to be consistent in that investment and later the investor has to make sure to hold the investment for a long time only then an investor can reach his goal.

I don't think gambling is the best option compeard to altcoin investment. We all know that altcoin are alternative to bitcoin and has a lesser attraction compeard to bitcoin but that doesn't mean altcoin should be totally neglected. We always talk about diversification of potfolio. What do you really think about it? Because i see it as investing in different altcoin apart from the usual BTC . Fake altcoin project looming around Crypto market might create a bad inpression on altcoin, but there are some altcoin that has an investment value. Let's take for example etherium. It has stand as next of kin to bitcoin and has an investment value. It better off to invest in etherium or BNB than gambling your money, because there is no volatility on gambling. But in Crypto currency if you invest and loose, there is a tendency for you to regain back your lost when the market is green. But in gambling if it fails, that's just the end. When speculating on altcoins be specific. Like saying I rather gamble with my money Dan investing in meme or fomo.

Venturing into something or business that could help you in times of finance in other to boost your accumulation level of Bitcoin is actually a good plan but however if your intentions of venturing into those business is for you to use all the funds to aggressively invest on Bitcoin I would say is not a right decision if you are not really sure of the cash flow of the business because so many investors has gone that line but find it difficult later.

Because most of the people who invest aggressively are mostly those investors who have the fear if missing out, so they always make sure they invest all they have in other not to miss any opportunity, so sometimes it could really affect the investor when a serious need will arise and there is know means of solving it and it will becomes a challenge, so I would just advise you not to invest aggressively but instead you could invest the amount you know will not affect your other need.

Diversification is a safety net when it comes to investment. At a certain point, there may be a need for an investor to delve into something that is certain to provide a faster return, perhaps in a short period of time. This could be an investment outside the cryptocurrency space. Some reasons for this include acquiring more money within this period so that they can aggressively buy Bitcoin and achieve their Bitcoin goals.

Definitely, on the process of growing your Bitcoin portfolio, there could be opportunities like a business or a higher-paying job that could come along, and all of this can help increase the amount you put into Bitcoin weekly. For instance, if you currently allocate $150 to Bitcoin every week and have the chance to start earning more than you currently do, you could increase your weekly allocation to $200 to aggressively buy more Bitcoin. Additionally, if you see a good business opportunity, you may temporarily pause your Bitcoin purchases to invest in the business. Once you start making gains from the business, you could aggressively buy Bitcoin using some of the profits from the business and your income. This way, you may now be buying Bitcoin using your income ($200) and from your business gains ($50) weekly, helping you reach the level of Bitcoin portfolio you desire.

The word investment doesn't apply literally to altcoins as they are not viable and reliable for long term plan. Altcoins are liken to gambling, so in my opinion it's better for anyone to use the money he's planning on investing in an altcoin to rather use it for actual gambling in a casino, in that case you are conscious that you are now gambling with your funds so it's a 50-50 chance of loss or profit if your lucky.

As the bullrun is getting closer we shouldn't be taken aback seeing some altcoins doing better all in disguise only to carpet flat after many would have innocent invested their money. I bet that many of the altcoins prices won't be rising along with bitcoin when the bullrun eventually kick start, they rather be doing the opposite. I rather be doing my little DCA holding strategy with bitcoin  with the little % from my monthly income while waiting for the bullrun, it better to partake in it with the little you can  than sitting on the fence.

This is one of the reasons why you should not invest your funds in altcoins because they are pump-and-dump coins that can not deliver what they promise to their investors. Most altcoins are a scam after taking investors' funds they will rug-pull the coin and run away with investors' money. With Bitcoin, you will not experience all these problems, and your investment in Bitcoin will be safe, all you need is to buy Bitcoin with a DCA strategy and Bitcoin always recovers its price.

It seems that you have phrased this part of your response a bit too stringently Ruttoshi, and maybe an example might be necessary? 

So we are talking about someone who comes to bitcoin and to investing and they do not have any investment portfolio, and so let's say for example, they are also in their early to mid 20s and they are new to working and they have a whole lifetime ahead of them for investing (perhaps thinking 30-40 years, but hoping that if they invest well they might be able to reach fuck you status in way less of the time, and maybe even half of the time), so maybe they started investing into bitcoin around a year ago with between $50 and $150 per week into bitcoin, and every quarter they are going to reassess to look at their income and their expenses to see if they can be more aggressive in how much they invest, and so they expect that over the years from time to time, their amount invested into bitcoin will increase and so they are not exactly clear about how to apportion their target amount of BTC as compared with everything else - especially since in the very beginning all that they have is bitcoin and cash (and their cash is sub-divided into extra for monthly cashflow and emergency fund), so their first year in bitcoin, they had been multi-taskedly shoring up each of the categories, figuring out their finances and psychology, consistently buying bitcoin, consistently adding money to their cash reserves and also maybe considering that once they get their cash reserves shored up they will be able to even be more aggressive, but they are still a bit nervous about keeping too much in cash because there are expectations that in the shorter term bitcoin may well go up in the next year or two and may well not return back down to even close to these current levels.

Tentatively they are thinking that they may well start to diversify into stocks, bonds, property and commodities at some point around the time that their BTC holdings might end up being 50% to 150% of their annual income, sure it could take 2-10 years for these levels to be reached, so the beginning to diversify could end up coming earlier, and sometimes people will run into employment situations in which their employer offers some kind of a 401k investing plan that might even match employee contributions, which surely could cause distractions in terms of whether someone should invest into the employer plan and how much and whether that should take away from bitcoin investments, and it could even be the case that the employer plan might ONLY match the first 5% but a person could get tax free contributions up to a pretty high level of their income maybe even if they were to put 20% of their income into such plan it would be tax free, so it could be tempting to invest in such, even though maybe there is no justification to invest into such plan beyond the level of the employer match.. So if such person has 5% going into a retirement plan (that presumptively currently does not have any bitcoin-related options), then it might become quite tough to muster up another 5-10% to put into bitcoin.. which might be the $50-$150 per week or the desire to put more into bitcoin because they are distracted.. and perhaps rightfully so... because matching contributions are quite rational investments.

So if we consider that the person does not have any kind of other investing options, then concerns about when to start diversifying still are likely going to come up way before reaching full fuck you status (which might be 20-30 years worth of income), and if it comes after a few years, there still may not be any reason to exclusively do one or the other, and there could be reasons to split the income and continue to buy bitcoin while adding on some other investments, such as equities, properties, bonds and/or commodities... These are not easy balances, and they likely are not exclusive and they likely have transitional periods in which more than one investment might start to be made once a bitcoin balance starts to become a lot larger but still might be far from it's longer term target levels but large enough to trigger concerns about having too much invested into ONLY one asset... and surely not referring to investing into shitcoins unless the investment amount is less tha 10% of your bitcoin stash.. and personally my shitcoins are way less than 1% of my bitcoin stash... so I am more averse to shitcoins than a lot of other people, even though I can see how some folks might get tempted into shitcoins and could allow for a fairly generous amount to go to shitcoins, but they need to control themselves because they probably should not be investing at all into shitcoins, but if they at least set limits, then they will at least limit the damage and hopefully they are not spending a whole lot of time thinking about their shitcoins either. especially if the shitcoins are a smaller amount, it should logically justify hardly spending any time thinking about them, either.


We had already talked about the sources of income matter in terms of not always being practical, and you are likely not saying anything wrong when there could be benefits from having various extra sources of income, yet at the same time, you are not saying anything that is absolutely necessary, because there are some people who make really good money with ONLY one source of income.. and sometimes it is just NOT practical and/or justifiable to be pursuing other sources of income when in an employment situation that is quite lucrative and pretty much covers everything.  Sure they could lose that source of income, but if it is a relatively high source of income that more than covers all expenses (plus some), then there can be ways to save a lot of income in case that main (perhaps ONLY) income source dries up.

Let's say someone makes around $6k per month^**, but his expenses are ONLY $3k, so he has $3k left over.. He might not need any other sources of income, but he might need to shore up some money in case something happens with his job so that he has a savings and/or investing cushion.  Of course, if the same person were to have his income get cut in half or maybe due to inflation, all of his expenses doubled, then that same person may well have to figure out some ways to cut expenses.

Part of my point is that there can be a lot of variations in regards to whether anyone needs to supplement their income or to have the other kinds of cashflows, and surely if anyone is not sure about how solid his/her cashflow is, or if there might be some ways that the current income is not covering all expenses and investment desires, then there might be ways to get other cashflows, even though some employment might not really allow having other jobs, and maybe there could even be time constraints to figure out how to muster up some other income and if someone is already earning $6k per month, it might not seem worth their time to be engaging in activities to supplement their income when that activity might ONLY end up adding $500 to $1k per month and it is too stressful to try to carry out.. even though surely, there could be situations in which it is good to have that back up income, depending partly on how costly it might be to actually get that extra income.

**By the way, don't get worked up about the seemingly high amounts that I am using for these examples, perhaps in a kind of western context, and you can reduce the amounts by 90% if that would help you to better relate to the amounts that I am using.

It seems you guys fail to understand my point of view, if I may ask have I mention any altcoins as an alternative for investment diversification? Irrespective of our purpose on this thread which is buying and holding, is it not also advisable to have other sources of income like business that could be helping or sustaining you and your family while your Bitcoin investment keeps running?, so perhaps it seems most people doesn't really understand the word Source of income ,so we shouldn't always feel or have a perception that other source of income means investing on altcoins.

However one of the factors of forces that hamper most investors are poor planning and lack of ability to have other things that could be taking care of his needs while he keeps investing.

Like stated above by @ Ruttoshi, altcoins are not worth investing, and do not think that you can outsmart the altcoin devs because they are the ones in control of the price. A newbie and someone who just started his bitcoin journey shouldn't fuck around with altcoins because they are for gamblers and not for investors. Investment is something that should exist over a long period of time and not a short term, only greedy people that are after quick profit choose altcoins instead of bitcoin, and at the end they live in regrets.

It is useless to use bitcoin accumulating strategy on altcoins because it is not bitcoin and doesn't have the potential that bitcoins has. Why will I fool myself to DCA on altcoin, that the value can turn to zero by tomorrow morning. You can buy bitcoin and continue learning and growing your investment but not altcoin because it is the opposite, and why will you invest on something that your mind will not be at rest with by taking extreme caution.

Invest wisely, however, I can't tell you what to invest your money on but newbies should stay away from altcoins and stick only to bitcoin investment because no matter how small your portfolio size is, the value of your portfolio will increase with timeline.

To start up any investment is not easy, the only investment that one can get started easily is bitcoin investment because you can start with any amount of money. You should also know that we are talking about beginners, who just want to start their bitcoin journey. Especially low income earners who don't have much to invest due to their little cash inflow, such persons should focus on only buying bitcoin and accumulating with the little amount that he can afford through regular DCA as is the superior to the other two methods, so that he can stay focused on building his bitcoin portfolio towards his bitcoin target. The low income earner wouldn't be able to have other investment and bitcoin investment is still that can promise a high profit in the long run compared to any other investment so why not just focus on the the important one than distracting yourself.

It is when you have reached close to your bitcoin target, that if you want to invest in other investment like bond, stock, gold or real estate that you can now start that, not at the early stage of your bitcoin journey, if not you might end up not achieving your bitcoin goal.

I hope that when you mean other investment, you are not talking about buying shitcoins, along side with bitcoin. If that is what is in your head, they you are misleading yourself to the wrong way of investing because buying shitcoins are waste of time and resources. No need of that because only bitcoin is what you need and forget about any other cryptocurrency because they are the duplicate of bitcoin and they will end up disappointing you and you will regret your actions.

I understand your point relating to the risk factor of this altcoins but at a point I had to settle down and make close observation into this altcoins and I feel at some point they are worth investing into but extreme caution needs to be taken.
Just the way strategies are applied in accumulating Bitcoin that is how strategic you need to be when buying this altcoins, quote me
here  Not for a long term hold.

Altcoins are most a pump and dump coin, we know after making waves and all that it must surely dump and very difficult to see any altcoins bounce back so why can't I venture into the market at a very short period of time might be weeks and earn that profit when it's pump and before it's dump I sell.

Bitcoin is the ultimate and no other currency stands a chance but considering the fact that just with little investment in altcoins you can make profits from it within a short period of time and still add those profits into my Bitcoin portfolio.
Altcoins are risky? Yes. Bitcoin is risky? No. That is one difference between them considering the risk factor

Well I wouldn't say you are wrong because every investor is entitled to there decision and believe or rather a target, so however just like this thread that educate people about holding so it will be left for an investor to either listen or they go for the strategy they feel is more suitable for them because most people especially the beginners fails to understand the risk on chasing bitcoin price and the emotional and psychological involvement on it.

So imagine how you could be feeling watching your bitcoin price dropping below your entry points, I think one of the factors that drives the minds of most investors is greed to always take advantage of the bitcoin price movement forgetting that trading is not like holding because the possibility of losing everything at a time is very high in times of trading and the only time you could really see what the future holds for bitcoin is by holding.

Those who have additional financial crisis do not invest but those who do not have to spend that investment after investing but invest when caught. As an investor invests with a lot of hope, I don't think he invests when he invests. Then he plans to sell his investment in a short period of time rather than he plans to hold his investment for a long time. In the case of an investor, if he is facing a financial crisis and he has tried hard to overcome that financial crisis, but he is unable to overcome that financial crisis in any way. Now the only way open to him is to sell his investment to overcome his financial crisis in which case the person must sell his investment even if he doesn't want to. 

Investing in a long-term plan means that we should forget about the amount of money we will invest in Bitcoin, that is, the expenses we will incur or the needs we will meet in the future must be met completely with money outside of our investment. 
Every investor invests in future plans, if we invest now and sell the investment after a few days then that investment will never fulfill our expectations but after investing we have to be patient and hold the investment. After investing we should not think that we have bitcoin investment if we plan to hold that investment for a long time because whenever we think that we have bitcoin investment we may want to sell our investments to meet our needs. 

An investor needs to be very patient to invest boldly and hold that investment, not to worry about small changes in the market. If an investor can think about his investment in this way then he can definitely hold his investment for a long time.

Mate, are you trying to say that we should also invest in altcoin? So that our eggs will not only be on Bitcoin investment. It is never good to invest in altcoin because you are not the dev of the altcoin, and if anything wrong happens at the back end you will not know. Investing in altcoin is just like someone playing gambling and you will lose your money if you are investing in altcoin because altcoin is a pump-and-dump token, that is after your money. As far as crypto is concerned, there is nothing like Bitcoin because you will not only make a profit from your Bitcoin investment, but Bitcoin gives you total control over your money, no third party will decide how you will use your Bitcoin, and you can also use your Bitcoin to send money to your family members staying abroad.

When I mentioned "source of income" what I meant was someone going into Bitcoin investment should have a means of survival either by having a good business or a good pay job that will allow you to freely invest in Bitcoin and also take care of your daily needs so that you will not depend in your Bitcoin investment to solve your financial issues.