Topic: Buy the DIP, and HODL! - page 399. (Read 123370 times)

A lot of people that do invest their money on bitcoin rely on it to rise so that they can trade it, it's only few bitcoin investors that have the mind of hodling their bitcoin for a long time let's just be very realistic, many people that buy bitcoins monitors the activities in the price of stocks in the market. And inasmuch as investment is concerned, whoever that invested their money on a particular project is hoping to make profits so due to the fluctuations in market prices, you can't blame someone that chooses to sell off his bitcoins if he notices that instead of the price to go high it start dipping so they're always in fear of losing everything thereby the reason for them selling off the little they've accumulated.


Basically, anyone who invest in bitcoins without having an alternative means of income is taking a higher risk which isn't advisable because if things doesn't really go the way they expected, they may run into depression because all their energy is being focused on making profit in it so a situation where it doesn't go towards that direction, it becomes a problem.


It is important to have a source of income before buying and hodling bitcoin for a long time, and looking from the framework of bitcoin since it was introduced, we can see that it requires a long interval of time before one can make a reasonable profit in it.

I think what @ Roseline492 is saying, isn't to invest in shitcoins, but rather to diversify your investment on other profitable investments including Bitcoin. Yes, Bitcoin investment can produce lots of profit when held for a long term, but you should be aware that since you will hodl for such long time, you might want to invest in other things that might be able to give you profits on the long run. Such investments might be land,or real estate business which we all know that it's value appreciates as development takes place over time. Having such investment along side your Bitcoin investments might be a good planning strategy for an investor. You can purchase more Bitcoin using the annual earnings from such investment and as well solve some other personal expenses that might arise, leaving your Bitcoin investments for fully long term and continuous accumulation.

Your explanation is very roundabout and I don't really understand. You mean if investors put their money in Bitcoin and that of course puts their hopes in one bag, is that true?

I think Bitcoin investment is the most appropriate investment and I only focus on Bitcoin investment for my long term investment. Examining an explanation is sometimes difficult to make sense but those words are not intended for Bitcoin holders but shitcoin. If we focus on Bitcoin and make regular purchases, it is better to forget about altcoins or other shitcoins because they will disturb you in the Bitcoin investment journey that you have set in long-term planning.

Keep accumulating Bitcoin whenever you have more money than your income because buying it regularly will make you more confident in being able to hold it for a long time.

That source of income is an interesting question.. because it is not an absolute to have a source of income, but if the person does not, then living off of their investments would be the source of income.. so it may or may not be healthy to start drawing upon your investment right away, but then the healthiness and/or the sustainability of drawing from one's investment has to do with the amount invested, how it is valued and then the withdrawal rate which would hopefully be enough to cover how much the person needs to live on a monthly and/or annual basis...  

Usually, it is considered that a person can perpetually withdraw at 4% per year as long as the investment is growing at least at that rate... so if a person had a $1million bitcoin investment, then s/he should be able to withdraw $3,333 per month, but then the question would be how to value the investment, and I personally like to use the 200-week moving average for that, so the 200-week moving average is almost $29k, so $1 million would be 34.4827586 BTC, and so then there might be questions about whether to make withdrawals monthly, quarterly, annually or some other period of time, and so there could be strategies about withdrawals in such a way that is able to pretty much maintain the value of the BTC.. but maybe even for the BTC to continue to grow beyond the 4% withdrawal rate that also might get adjusted up with inflation, but also the person needs to develop some strategies around preserving the principle and not spending above a sustainable withdrawal rate.

A mistake that many people make is to prematurely withdraw the principle... but with bitcoin the errors still might be able to work themselves out as long as you still are careful not to overly withdraw too early.... and if you ONLY have 10 BTC, but you really should have 34.5 BTC, then you might not really be ready to live off of the 10 BTC, and so then a cashflow might be helpful until the 200 week moving average might reach $100k that will cause the 10 BTC to be worth  $1million or maybe you might need them to reach $2million in value before you are able to feel comfortable to start to withdraw from them, so if you ONLY have 10 BTC then you would need the 200-week moving average to go up to $200k.. which may well be reason to preserve some other cashflow while the 200-week moving average is catching up to your desired area... which well could take 10 years for the 200-week moving average to move up from $29k to $200k and also it is not guaranteed, but a person with 10 BTC right now and a cashflow that is able to sustain themselves for another 10 years, may well be sitting pretty right now with such potentially good prospects... that are not guaranteed, even though from my perspective, they seem pretty good as I type this post....

Actually there is a saying that putting all your eggs in one basket is a very risky one because if anything should happen to the basket all the eggs are gone, so relating it to what you are saying, however you are correct because as an investor or a business man is never an ideal to have only one single investment because if anything should happen to it, you will be hit back starting from square one.

So as a bitcoin investor in as much as bitcoin is one of the best and reliable investment I will not encourage someone to have only one source because we know it takes a longer time before seeing a profits on your bitcoin investment since you are holding.

So perhaps having other source of income will serve as an appetizer that will take care of your daily needs while your bitcoin investment is up and running.

If a person invests in BTC while they themselves do not have a source of income, their investment path will not reach their destination or be long term.
Life is full of challenges so a source of income is important if you only rely on investment alone then it will not be profitable while we know the price of bitcoin will not directly increase in a short time of course this requires a long time process so in addition you invest then on the one hand a source of income must exist to fulfill your life.

People who have invested while there is no source of income then undoubtedly the ownership will not be long will definitely sell in the middle of the road whether it is because of the needs of life, or fomo, it could be because the price dropped and sold it for fear of loss.

But with you there is already a source of income at least there is no pressure on your bitcoin ownership, so this can still survive to hold BTC.

I think @Fauderz is not denying the fact that learning about Bitcoin before investing is bad, but what he means is that you don't actually need to spend a very long time learning about Bitcoin before you can invest in it.

For example, if you want to get a B.Sc. degree in any course, it might take you to keep studying and writing exams for up to 3 or 4 years, but when you want to invest in Bitcoin, you don't need to stay up learning for like four years before you can invest. You can hear just a few characteristics of Bitcoin, and you may just be convinced to invest the fiat money you have been holding for years in Bitcoin because you know that you will keep holding the money for more years. If you invest in Bitcoin, you know that normally you can hold it for the next bull market, and you will not need any prophet to convince you so much at that moment. So, while you have invested and are holding your asset, you can keep learning about Bitcoin. That's the point.

I do keep having a dilemma about the wedding example, and there are likely ways to attempt to accomplish both short term and also long term, and maybe there was a time in which a guy might have had been investing in bitcoin, but also trying to figure out what to do with saving for a wedding.. and so there could be ways to dedicate part of the funds to each, rather than selling all of the bitcoin.. so some is long term and some is short term.. so there would be kind of like overinvesting in bitcoin, but at the same time, we likely realize that whenever we bet on short term BTC price moves, then we are trading and/or gambling rather than long term investing.. so then questions might revolve around how to apportion such matters and whether that kind of discussion is really related to topics in this thread.  Sure the longer term portion of the investment would likely be carried out with the same kinds of ideas of this thread with setting targets and also considering the balancing of lump sum investing, DCA and buying on dip. .and also HODL whether in the periods of going up or going down and running out of money.

Surely one of the disadvantages of pulling money out of any longer term investment is losing out on the compounding effects.. but if some of the money had been put in on purpose as a kind of overinvestment, then maybe the portion related to the overinvestment could be pulled out.

Maybe if we try to go over an example that might show how someone might attempt to accomplish such overinvestment and front loading and then be able to pull out the overinvested portion.

For example, let's say that someone had been in bitcoin for the last 4 years, and they had been investing $100 per week, so then there current investment portfolio would be around $21k invested and around 1.13 BTC.. which is not really any kind of bad place to be, but if such person put some extra into BTC around 1 year ago and maybe ended up buying an extra 0.4 BTC for around $9k (so that would be an average price of a bit more than $22k per BTC for those 0.4BTC), then surely when that portion of the BTC went up to $37k, it could have had been cashed out for around $15k.. so about a $6k profit.... so that could possibly help to supplement a wedding or pay for most of the wedding with the principle plus the profits. and maybe there are some cases in which the $6k profits could pay for most if not all of the wedding costs without necessarily drawing from the long term BTC stash...

.and whether it is realistic or not might be another story, but there could be situations in which someone might have some kind of a separate wedding fund that they put into bitcoin (which may or may not be considered gambling based on how they do it.. because if the BTC price moves against them, would they still end up cashing out or would they let the situation ride and either get the wedding funds from another source or postpone the wedding?)... there are a variety of ways to deal with the whole situation without necessarily violating some of the notions that many of us have about BTC being mostly a long term investment rather than something that you fuck around with in the short term.. but at the same time, why should any of us either be so strict or haters upon people who might be playing the possibility of UP (and then be ready to cash out of UP if it ends up happening).. while at the same time attempting to have some contingency plans that might not necessarily involve selling any BTC if UP happens to not end up playing out?

Don't get me wrong.  I am not suggesting that anyone should be lightly getting into overinvestment scenarios, but I also don't find them to be completely repulsive as long as you have adequately prepared for the price moving against you.. that does not involve selling the thing that you invested into in the first place (which is BTC in this case. and what we are talking about in this thread)...

so when (or if) the price does end up moving against you, you likely end up losing in several ways: 1) by not gaining from BTC price moving up, 2) the value of your whole bitcoin holdings (and likely networth) ended up going down 3) you have to scramble to get funds from other areas and perhaps depleting or severely restricting those funds.. but don't make the situation worse by having 4) selling your BTC, even though that may well be what you end up wanting to do.. and maybe you should have plans in place that you are actually buying more BTC when the price is moving against you. even though you are losing in those other various ways too... which might be another cost that you have to account for being able to buy more BTC if the price goes down even though you are otherwise getting poorer in several ways as the BTC price is going down and sometimes it ends up going down BIGGEDly and staying down for a long time, when you had been expecting it to go up.


This is the place where a person should attempt to have a contingency plan so that s/he does not have to sell his/her bitcoin.   There are ways to play on UP but also don't play it so hard that you don't have a contingency plan, and even if you might end up losing or not profiting if UP does not end up happening, you are not necessarily damaged as badly as having to sell your BTC at a loss... It is not an easy balance, I admit, but it also likely shows that those people who are not able to develop and have in place sufficiently strong contingency plans, then they likely should not be investing as much as they are into bitcoin.. so each of us should ONLY be overinvesting if we are fairly certain that our contingency plan is going to play out and the contingency plan is not that we have to sell our bitcoin.


If we are talking about beginner investors, then you are likely not correct Aanuoluwatofunmi.  A beginner investor will likely start out with at least having some kind of a dollars (fiat) savings and so even if the ONLY investment that he has is bitcoin, he would likely be able to balance those initial times in regards to his dollars.  So as time goes on there may be some justifications in diversification, but that could take several years to build up to a point in which diversification is even needed to be considered.. especially for a beginner.

I think that we should presume that we are talking about beginners, and then work our way up to the more complicated and sophisticated situations, and actually the more complicated and sophisticated situations are going to account for their other investments when they are deciding whether to get into bitcoin and then presuming they decide to get into bitcoin then they decide how much they want to get into bitcoin and what will end up being their allocation into bitcoin as compared with their other investments and then how are they going to get to their target levels, which even target levels could be a bit of a moving target even if the non-beginner is still in fairly early stages of building the total values of his/her investment portfolio, so if the goal might be to get to $2 million in 30 years, and s/he is 5 years into building an investment portfolio, but the investment portfolio is still around 20% less than 1 year's salary (which maybe we might consider to be around $50k per year).

But if we get back to the newbie, then such newbie might not be needing to consider diversification until s/he gets to 30% to 50% of his/her annual salary (or whatever other threshold in which s/he might believe that diversification might be some kind of a potential concern)

If the beginner is very aggressive and already investing 30% of his/her annual income per year, then that person might be in a better place to diversify as compared with the more typical investor who might be struggling to get to any place more than 10% per year, and even with 10% per year invested into bitcoin or anything else, it would take 10 years to get up to a full year's salary having had been invested into the asset(s).


That's a pretty BIG assumption rachael9385.. If you had invested $250 per week into bitcoin over the last three years, you would have invested close to $40k and you would have had gotten nearly 1.4 BTC (currently worth about $51k.. not a bad place to be).

I get the sense that such opportunities to reach a whole BTC in three years with $250 per week has likely passed, but you might be able to get to 1 whole BTC over 10 years if you invest $200 per week.  If you are ONLY investing $100 per week into bitcoin, it may well take you 15-20 years and maybe you might never be able to reach a whole bitcoin at that $100 per week rate of investment into BTC... not that you will need a whole BTC 20-40 years down the road in order to still potentially have a lot of advantages from BTC, even if a whole BTC might not be fuck you status in some places in the next 20-30 years (I am revising my fuck you status chart to be more conservative and it appears that a western level fuck you status for 1 BTC might not be reached until 2060.. which maybe I am being overly conservative).

As we already know, the major thing is not to invest in Bitcoin, but can you hodl for long and secure your seed phrases. However, one of the things that can make one secure his or her seed phrase is only if he or she can hold for a long term (but not only that).

Talking about not selling off all the coins in the wallet, although it is not a good endeavor and I don't buy such ideas.

Holding Bitcoin is good and that is one of the things that will make an investor profit from the investment. Selling off all the coins in the wallet is just another way of short-term holding or being scared to invest again (will I say it is Bitcoin retirement? No it is not).

Passing the knowledge of Bitcoin or some of your Bitcoin to a family member who already has little knowledge about Bitcoin is a good idea because Bitcoin is already for everyone, but people must accept it by acquiring the knowledge of Bitcoin, but if it is given to someone that doesn't know the importance of Bitcoin, then it will be misused.


I am pretty sure that it is not only by buying at the dip before one can make a profit, waiting for the dip might make you not to think about investing at all, because if the price of Bitcoin continues to increase, one might think that it is too late (even nowadays, many people are thinking that it is too late for them to invest as Bitcoin is already at $36k±). You would not even know the right time for the dip.

You might be right, but I don't accept it that way. Imagine if you have the money to buy Bitcoin, but you are still waiting for the price to dip, and letter it didn't dip, then after using the money you have for something else, then the price dipped.

With my little time in the Bitcoin world, it is good not to wait for the dip, but as long as you have the money to buy Bitcoin, just click on the buy button and don't wait, the money in your hand can be tempting to use for something else most times.

The long term hodl is good for profits because on that process of holding you will have to accumulate enough btc, one of the things that can make a long-term investor achieve what he or she wants only if they don't put selling in their mind. With that, they can hold for long and still accumulate Bitcoin. If one is able to reduce his or her expenses and constantly buy $50 or $100 worth of BTC every weekend for 3 years, that means the process of achieving a whole BTC during the halving season might be somehow sure.

You're right, some Invested in bitcoin as their one and only last means for financial breakthrough and all minds are on it, what we should have done is to make sure that bitcoin Investment is not the only thing we do, we have to create time and efforts on other assets to complement each other because bitcoin may not be as this always on the bullish and we may needed to sell while the market is unfavourable at dip all because we are in need of money to carter for other things in demands.

I think you are getting it all wrong because there is know way he would no that investing on bitcoin within some certain months will be able to yield profit for him, when we know that in times of bitcoin nothing is certain for a short time considering the volatility or how the price can just maintain a certain level for longer period of time, just like what the price did earlier this year by maintaining a certain zone for months, so if I may ask, if truly his investment was just targeted for a short time and it happens that bitcoin drops instead of increasing would he be able to sell it?.

So perhaps i think his plan was for long time investment but however considering what the profit has turn out, he decided to channel it on his wedding, which is not investment wise.

A beginner that has the intentions to invest in a long term bitcoin investment don't need to know about market analysis because that is not important for him. All he needs to know is the amount that he can use from his income that wouldn't be a barrier for him not to be able to invest in a long term. If he has sorted that out, then start his bitcoin journey with regular DCA with maybe 10% or 5% based on his cash inflow.

What matters is his commitment to grow his investment by buying every week or monthly to increase the size of his investment. DCA strategy don't need any focus on the market because your are buying frequently irrespective of the price of bitcoin at that moment. Discipline, patients and commitment towards his bitcoin target is important than much knowledge because as he is on the ride in his bitcoin journey he will learn through experience and he will also learn other aspect that he is interested in. Regular DCA limits the risk in bitcoin investment and a newbie is good to get started with regular DCA.

This is a wrong investment strategy on long term goal bitcoin investors because that investor has failed to plan properly, and he has invested aggressively which has made him to be short of funds. For one to be able to achieve his long term goal, he must have funds in reserve for any emergency that will occur in the long run and he must also set aside funds for his monthly expenses so that he doesn't go back to sell the bitcoin that he bought.

Selling some fraction of your bitcoin due to emergency, will distract you and delay you to achieve you bitcoin target. What if bitcoin price dips below your entry point, it means that you will sell at loss which makes it unethical and not advisable. Only use the money that wouldn't affect your income so that you don't end up selling your bitcoin due to tension and at the wrong time.

Do you know that benefits of investment is when you invest when bitcoin price is low and you will be expecting to make profit when it goes higher, that is why most people do invest whenever the price of the market is dip, you can't expect an investor to invest when the market is all over showing green or the market is fluctuating, their is some certain things we are suppose to know or understand for this investment.

Neither you are investing long-term or short-term investing at most you have to make sure you have know the strategies of investment before you invest,  currently the price of bitcoin is between thirty seven thousand and thirty six thousand [37-36k] so if you are investing with this price ratio or range I don't think that you need to bother yourself much since is a long-term investment.

But for the fact is long-term investment I don't think you have much problem  but the process is a short term, I will tell you to watch well before you invest because what gives profit for bitcoin investment is when you buy when it's dip and sell when it's High, so short term  investment can not give you anything good.

Those that sell their entire Bitcoin are those who do not make provision for emergency fund that @JayJuanGee spent quality time to explain. Without making provision for funds that will support you when things you don't plan for happens, the last resort will always be your assets and considering Bircoin is easier and faster to sell than other forms of investment, it is usually the victim of such situation. Indeed, it is never a good practice to invest in Bitcoin without planning well on how to hold it for long and part of that planning involves setting aside this emergency funds.


This aspect was a hot topic in one of the thread and the discussion there shows that it is not everyone that is invested in Bitcoin that is thinking in that direction. Some that are, have not figured out how to achieve it. While many suggestions have been given, I think every one involved in Bitcoin must put that into consideration. Other forms of physical investments are easier to transfer to heirs unlike Bitcoin that requires some level of secrecy.

Even due someone is investing in Bitcoin for the short term or the long term, it is advisable the person should have a source of income so that he/she will not rely on selling his Bitcoin holding to solve his life challenges. Fomo can also make someone to sell his Bitcoin holdings because he/she invested in Bitcoin to get some profit in an estimated time but when the profit doesn't come and the price of Bitcoin dips, that person might be forced to sell off his Bitcoin even at a loss.

Since an investor is investing in a long-term plan, he does not need to analyze much about the Bitcoin market before investing because he can see such changes in the market almost after investing. As trading is done in short term plan so before trading a trader should analyze the market but if investing in long term plan an investor does not need so much to analyze the market. Bitcoin market is now between $35000 to $37000, investing $35000 for a long term plan will not affect an investor's investment as much as $37000 will not affect an investor's investment much.

Although long-term investing does not require market analysis, an investor needs to have sufficient patience. We have to make our minds in such a way that we can easily take the general changes in the market. After investing in a long term plan, if the market goes from $37,000 to $30,000 even then we should not get excited because if we wait for a few days or so, we will see that the market has returned to normal levels. 
Holding Bitcoin for the long term is one of the great virtues of an investor, meaning that investing in money can usually be done by anyone, but not everyone can hold on to that investment for the long term. If we can't hold our investment for long then we should look at those who have invested more than us and who are investing more than us and holding for longer. Because if we follow them, we may be encouraged to hold our investment for a long time. 

It may be challenging for a new investor to hold his investment for a long time but if he can accept the challenge and hold for a long time then he will not have any problem in holding his investment later on.

The most important thing here is an investor's plan. If I make a visionary plan with Bitcoin, I must think of Bitcoin. I know everyone has their own thoughts but those who can apply those thoughts correctly will get a better reward in the future. Marriage is important for every person but the cost depends on the person. If he is not financially sound then he should have taken the time to think about how he will carry out his program while holding on to the bitcoins.

We often say that we need to plan for the long term with Bitcoin but not all of us can hold Bitcoin for the long term. Moreover, the mistake we often make is that the money we can lose should be invested in bitcoin. The money should not be invested which cannot be held for a specified period of time. We all have a positive opinion about Bitcoin but if we don't invest in it without plan then we will have more chances of loss than profit.

I don't believe he invested more than he was comfortable risking. It's evident he wasn't aiming for long-term profit, and his lack of a well-thought-out investment strategy likely led to selling off his Bitcoins. For those looking to invest in Bitcoin, it's crucial to plan and diversify investments wisely, allocating an amount not needed in the short term. While it's understandable to sell some Bitcoins for emergencies, it's advisable to establish a separate savings fund for unforeseen circumstances during the investment period. Effectively dividing your income based on monthly expenses is essential.

Thats good statement. The wedding can wait for more years and proper planning should be made toward it. It's hard to believe that people will jeopardize their plans for the future by selling off their Bitcoin for a one-day event. If we look at it again the persona here was clearly into Bitcoin for the short term. Because am certain that someone investing in Bitcoin for decades/long term should behave differently from someone investing with the intention to pay for a wedding event in a year or two from now. The fact that he has to sell his Bitcoin for a wedding means he had some improper planning. Someone is planning for a wedding should have gotten a wedding fund account, which means whenever he receives his income he can allocate some money into the account, in a more preferrable manner he could decide to reduce the percentage of money he allocates for Bitcoin and emergency fund and set saving goals based on the budget for his wedding.

The main idea is to invest the amount of money you know you can afford to lose, so you won't have to sell your Bitcoin. If a person ends up selling his/her Bitcoin because of a life invent even if sometimes life can be unfair, it indicates that they have invested more than they were comfortable risking.