Topic: Buy the DIP, and HODL! - page 416. (Read 137181 times)

I guess this a proper definition of a short term investors , a little drop gives a fear of not making profit or enough profit as expected to when they will be opting out or maybe the noobs who invested as a result of trend out there, they are only after short term profits  as their name implies  so, they easily get carried away by their  emotions when the price drops below their entry point.

Anybody who sells his Bitcoin because there is a drop in Bitcoin price doesn't have any knowledge about Bitcoin. That person only invested in Bitcoin because he/she saw a testimony where Bitcoin has made some people rich, and the person thinks that such a thing will happen if he/she buys Bitcoin and holds for a short term. By the time the person accumulates his Bitcoin, with the aim of getting rich soon and when this doesn't happen he/she will likely sell off his Bitcoin even though he/she is at a loss because what he/she was expecting from his Bitcoin investment did not happen.

Frequently, people will have messed up personal financial situations based on spending more than they earn (which is the debt situation that you mentioned), and also failing/refusing to establish any kind of sufficient emergency fund that goes beyond 1-2 months, and so any time that we meet people who already have these kinds of irresponsible and disorganized life situations, they may well not be in a very good position to invest into bitcoin, yet personally, I believe that they are going to be disadvantaged by failing/refusing to get started in their investment journey.. and the mere investment into bitcoin should inspire them to get the rest of their financial life in order.

Surely if they were to invest in bitcoin and they do not work on getting the rest of their financial life in order they are going to run real high chances of losing their bitcoin due to future cash flow problems...

So, yeah, there is ONLY so much that you can do in regards to getting people to go down the road of both better financial responsibility but also investing in bitcoin, yet at the same time it is possible to invest in bitcoin while stilll resolving to get the other aspects of their financial lives in order which would include at least building an emergency fund of 3-6 months or longer and also to at least pay off their higher interest credit card debts and other debts... .. yet there is nothing wrong with having some outstanding debt as long as their is some kind of justification to it. .and the ability to invest and potentially earn more than the paying off of the debt could be a reason to keep the debt and to pay it off slowly, and some kinds of debts might take a real long time to pay off, and there could be ways to at least roll higher interest rate debts into lower interest rate debt, which could also take a while to accomplish those kinds of measures.

And, by the way, it seemed to used to be case that the debasement of the dollar and/or other stronger currencies might have been in the 2-5% per year rate - however, in recent times, it seems pretty obvious that the debasement of the currency is greater than 2-5%, so it might not make a lot of sense to pay off early the credit lines that have less than 5% interest rates and it may well make more sense to use that extra money to invest in bitcoin... which so far historically we have seen that bitcoin has increased in value at least 20% per year (if we look at the 200-week moving average), but surely bitcoin remains volatile and we also cannot count on the maintenance of future results based upon relatively great past performance results.


Many of us here advocate both accumulating and/or holding bitcoin for 4-10 years or longer, and sure if you accumulate in a lump sum then you can maybe wait 4-10 years or longer, but if you are merely ongoingly investing, then you might have some portions of your BTC stash that have higher cost basis and other portions that have lower cost basis, but really to be able to have good chances to really get the powerful benefits of how value can compound, there is quit a bit of value to be able to hold for those kinds of longer periods of time, and even if you might begin to sell some BTC along the way, you may well still want to be measured in the ways that you sell your bitcoin, so that your BTC investment continues to mostly ride and you can experience the benefits of compounding.

So even the guy who bought BTC and got a doubling is not going to have as much power in his returns compared to the guy who might have gone through several doublings.. doubling that compounds upon itself become fairly powerful in a relatively short number of doublings.  See some of my discussion of doublings and the power of compounding in my investment ideas thread.


Sure you can account for personal preferences, but personal preferences is not going to completely resolve the potential issue regarding some practices likely being better than others, so you could exercise your personal preference and end up getting a worse result, even in terms of getting what you want.  Sometimes people do not necessarily know that it is better to do some things that might be uncomfortable in the short-term but end up having better long term results. I have argued those kinds of points several times, in order to suggest that frequently a bitcoiner who buys regularly and often might have a higher cost per BTC, but he also might end up with a larger BTC stash too, as compared to the ones who are not buying regularly and often..


 I would not let the macro factors get in the way of your BTC accumulation, so if you are and have been waiting for the BTC prices to crash since $25k in August/September (which you were), and then the BTC price nearly doubles in the next 3-4 months, then even if it corrects, it is not likely to go back down to $25k.. and the same thing may well end up being true now.. so the BTC prices go shooting up and you are waiting, and you end up buying way higher because the correction (if it ends up coming) is not even bringing you back to previously high BTC prices.  We have seen those kinds of BTC price performance patterns in earlier times, and there seems to be no reason to believe that such BTC price performance patterns are not going to continue to play out.

So yeah there is some risk in regards to how much preparations that we are making for up, because we should also be preparing ourselves for down, too, yet if we do not have enough BTC and we have cash continuing to come in, then we likely should be working towards increasing our BTC stash on a regular basis and not holding too much of that incoming cash for dips.... but yeah, the ultimate balance of how much to hold for dips versus buying right away is in the discretion of each of us.


As we covered many times, that is not the only question.  The other important factor is how many BTC you already have... I have always said if you don't have any bitcoin, you better get started right away, and the price does not matter, since the ONLY way to prepare for UP is to buy some.. otherwise you are ONLY prepared for down, which, generally speaking, is not a good place to be.

So the question for each person has to do with their own assessment regarding if they are sufficiently prepared for UP or not, and if they have $10k in an investment portfolio, and they are happy having $1k in BTC (which is 10%), then that is their choice, and maybe 10% is enough.  I generally recommend that beginners have anywhere between 1% and 25% in bitcoin, so the details in regards to where they fall and if they have enough still is within their discretion.


You are right that each person decides for himself, but there are still some answers that are better than other answers, so it seems to be a cop out and too simplistic if you are merely suggesting that it all depends on the person, which even though true, is still inadequate in terms of really grappling with the 9 factors that each person should be attempting to assess in order to help him to figure out his own approach.. towards reaching his goals.


Even though you are exaggerating a lot in regards to 5 figures versus 7 figures, there are still lot of similarities, even if the amounts might be different.  My own approach attempts to account for these kinds of matters, even if I might frequently default to western amounts. .and we know that even in the west, a guy might have been considered to have had been whimpily investing 10 years ago with only $10 per week, but that still would have had added up to a lot after 10 years, so I frequently assert that even the guy investing $100 per week is not going to even come close to the guy who had been investing $10 per week, even starting from your time in bitcoin, nearly 8 years ago.. think about it, you are getting close to having 2 full cycles in bitcoin too, so even you may well be talking about some of these bitcoin related matters in ways that may well be difficult to understand for the newer folks coming to BTC, even if you might have considered yourself to have a fairly conservative style.. I mean that is if you had been DCA investing rather than spending too much time waiting and not even regularly investing because you are preoccupied about some kind of macro-crash that may or may not end up happening.


When you withdraw your bitcoin, you need to consider the future transaction fees and not just the current transaction fees, and lightning network is not a great place to store for the long term, but it is good if you want to conduct a bunch of small transactions.  If you have a choice, I don't think that it is good to have your UTXOs to be smaller than $500, even if you might end up holding some of your money on exchanges longer than you otherwise would have.   The guys who sent multiple small transactions to the same wallet are likely going to be in BIG trouble when they go to spend those transactions, especially if they want to do a larger transaction that has to combine several prior transactions (UTXOs).  They might end up losing a lot of money on their bitcoin and/or not being in profits as great as they thought that they were... think about $5k in bitcoin that had been built based on 100 $50 bitcoin transactions, and then if you go to spend it, the fee is going to be 100x more than if the transaction had been in one UTXO.. .so maybe it could cost up to $2,500 to send it.. or if you figure out a way to reduce your transaction fees.. maybe you get it down to $500 for the transaction fees becuase you are combining 100 UTXOs that were $50 each.

Mempool hasn't returned to normal but the ordinals spams are not willing to pay more than 30sat/vb for the past few days for some reason which we never know. And I would say paying $13 to withdraw $200 is not a smart choice because it is 6.5% value of your invested amount and let's say you paid one year or return that you can get from traditional assets just for the fee with this move.


$200 or $500 should be depend on how much you invest, let say you invest $50 a week and withdraw once you reached $200 then its too soon for that value and I would say let's extend the period a little longer atleast $600 and pay $13 as fee which is moderate than paying $13 for 200.

LN is not different from the BTC network, its is just an L2 layer that sends funds without needing of on-chain transactions and preferable a choice for someone who sends small funds more often

Now, more potential investors are in panic mode with the fear of what might happen preceding the ETF approval and halving. 
A good plan is what's right, but one truth is that profit taking is not for those who will start an investment plan from today. Unless, it is to trade as a merchant during the period of the halving, any newbie trader with the intent of starting off right now is mostly going to run into failure.

Despite the dip, to buy and to HoDL is still the best advice for newbie traders and investors with lower funds to invest.

Inasmuch as we want to encourage people to invest in Bitcoin given the opportunities and prospect, we must not ignore the requirements of proper planning. Before even getting started, you must have plans on how to go about your asset.

The basic decisions that must be made if the investment must be sustainable covers the method of buying, if it will be buying at every dip or buying using the DCA method. You cannot just be buying haphazardly without plans of targets. If you do this, your finances might not be well planned to match your investment targets with your personal needs.

Another factor to consider too is if the investment is for long term (which we encourage here) or for short term. If for long term, then planning still comes in as that is the only way to hold the investment without yielding to the urge to sell as a result of personal needs. Planning takes care of all these.

Most of them have definitely bought small-scale BTC from the exchange because a few weeks ago it became a bottleneck because the network was congested and then the fees were quite high this certainly burdened those who wanted to withdraw BTC from DCA but were constrained but now it seems that the mempool has returned to normal the fees are not so big, now the Binance exchange only charges a withdrawal fee of 0.00029 about $13 now I have withdrawn $200 of DCA results and kept some time on the exchange, so it's better to sacrifice a little with $13 than to have such a worrying risk of keeping too long on the exchange.

Make sure you have withdrawn to a non-custodial wallet and resume the DCA once it is above $200 or $500 immediately withdraw, that's what I do.

The Lightning Network is indeed a solution but for now it is still not right, it is still not popular with middle to lower investors, I also see that large investors store their BTC onchain not on LN, so make sure you stay onchain if you still don't understand the lightning network.

At every price of bitcoin, it is an opportunity to buy more, some many investors misunderstand the concept of bitcoin, Bitcoin is an investment that's been controlled by the influx of people in the market, so at any price you find it, buy as much as you can, don't wait until the price comes to the level you want, this will deprive you the opportunity to get involved quickly, if we tell people that bitcoin that was around 38-$40$ in the last few months will be $46k as of today they won't believe it, so am of the opinion that any price of Bitcoin is a good avenue to continue buying because no one knows what's fishy at the moment, we keep doing the needful slow and steady to be in the forefront.

Maybe you should have made close emphasis on when you mentioned parents, simply defining old people, right? A parent might be of age 30 moving up to 40  and should not be considered as being too old  to understand all about Bitcoin and it's technology but in regards to our age parent, yes of a truth I agree with you, it becomes even more difficult for them to adapt or adopt with the use of Bitcoin.

Bitcoin investment can be set to become part of the retirement plan, if they had the knowledge DCAing for a longer time during their working days.

If we go through the bitcoin price indications and how it has always been performing over the years, we could see through even right from the short narrative examples stated by JayJuanGee, Bitcoin has a down lane historical order in which we could go through to derive every informations we needed from that if we are determined for them, alot of factors affect the bitcoin price, but we tend to picture them from one side whenever they happen than applying the general approach on what a digital currency like bitcoin is, just as we all know it's a volatile cryptocurrency, we must have a lot to discover in a particular time which could be the reason for the market price going up or coming down.


If you're having intention for bitcoin investment, just make sure that what you are going for is as according to what you could achieve conveniently, but many lack the understanding in knowing that bitcoin had come down to every of our level which we belong, we are the ones rather not making the rightful application of it to our own interests through some of the wrong ways we adopt in making bitcoin investment, DCA is as best as doing it to have the opportunity of investing in bitcoin over time thereby reducing the risk of losses and increasing that of making interest in it, we can choose to DCA or learn on how we can earn bitcoin if at worst scenario.

Parents have different worries and things they care about like making sure they have enough money for when they retire staying healthy and leaving money for their family when they pass away. Bitcoin might be a good option for them but it is understandable if they are not sure about trusting others with their money especially if they do not know anyone who understands Bitcoin. It is really important to talk to parents about investing in a way that makes sense to them(like Bitcoin) using words and examples they understand from their everyday life.

I have been involved with cryptocurrencies for several years. But I never invested in any coin just worked bounty. Me along with some of my friends we have opened a coaching center from where we get a fixed amount of salary every month. We all decided to deposit 40% of our salary into a fund and divide it equally among all at the end of the year. We have been doing this for two and a half years. We have created this fund for three years. In this fund we all deposited 3000 rupees every month. Now our age of this fund is over we have already distributed this money among everyone.

We have again decided that we will create one more such fund and extend it further.
But I told my elder brother about this and he told me that you are still acting like a fool. When I responded to this, he told me that the same amount of money you deposit into the fund every month, you can deposit into Bitcoin every month through the dollar cost averaging system. He told me that you will get more profit by investing in bitcoins by dollar cost averaging than by depositing money in the fund, but you will have to hold it for a much longer period of time.

So I decided to take that big brother decision and I'm willing to invest in Bitcoins by dollar cost averaging every month. As I work in a coaching center there are still about 20 days left for the month so I have a small amount of money now which is $12. I started my first bitcoin investment with that amount today using the dollar cost averaging method. I want my investment to last for a long time.

You need to understand more deeply the differences in understanding between parents and young people who are able to think creatively when storing their assets safely along with the seeds of recovery. Because we are talking about investments where your assets have to be withdrawn from the exchange to a cold wallet. So I will focus on the 10 people mentioned above, including parents with varying  levels of understanding. So I will not force them to make a decision based on anyone's pressure. Investment is about choices  so you can't dictate to anyone. Furthermore the information I convey certainly does not  necessarily go straight to the core investment points  because we  have material with a customized method of delivery to the audience. It has become a technique if you understand Bitcoin then to convey it to other people it is necessary to use  language they understand as simply as possible by making comparison examples with everyday  life that they often encounter. Portions with their respective levels.

Talking about risks, for older people what I get most is that they want to get investment guarantees for retirement, for health and inheritance guarantees. Even though for me Bitcoin could be a solution, because they don't have anyone close to them  who understands investing  in Bitcoin and tend not to give trust to other parties, they choose to think for a moment. The old man is not far from being forgetful, risking storing  the seeds of recovery in random places etc.

For sure they not afraid to see that dump especially if they don't have holdings since this is buying opportunity for most of those people. But if they have stock BTC on their wallet to use for DCA I guess this is bad event that happen for them especially if they are speculating to sell it on some target timeline. But good thing for other traders especially for whales they can do good decisions with especially if they have lots of experience since they can buy more cheap bitcoins then wait for another perfect time for it to pump so they can recover together with gaining profits for new coins they bought.

Maybe they just delay it and extend more time but for sure once they see huge growth happening and they are enough with the profits shown usually people will sell since they want to take profit and repeat the cycle again. If we are doubting because we don't want to see the price to decrease again then I think its better for us to follow each market trends since once we found out that there's something good events that can help bitcoin market to hype up and get a good future pumps then maybe this is some sign that those people accumulate and execute again their plans to do DCA.

I don't know how you might have talked and explained to people that they had to end up clearly defining it as being risky and avoidable to investing. These were all what we conceived at the very beginning of our Bitcoin journey, forgetting that those risks can be well managed. I think the first step to make them find interest in Bitcoin is by spreading the knowledge first not just tying to convince them into buying at first, most humans are hard to convince except you provide well detailed information of how they can overcome the risk, everything we do is sorrounded by risk and so Bitcoin is not exempted.

Should I believe that Bitcoin follows a simulated pattern that keeps reoccurring over years difference or do we see it as a repititive coincidence. I simply believe Bitcoin movement has a slight difference when being compared to past history that is where the loss and profits comes in, like you said if it were so then there won't be no loss just a win win situation.

Bitcoin transaction fees have not yet fallen, this is a bit of an obstacle for bitcoin investors, especially for bitcoin investors who always do DCA. Moreover, the amount of money that is always collected is not too large. Of course, with high transaction costs, we are forced to postpone purchases for a while until transaction costs are cheap again. But even so, there is no need to worry. Although currently our weekly or monthly accumulation is a little hampered. But you will still get the plus points.

Because with expensive bitcoin transaction fees, you will definitely continue to accumulate money to invest in larger amounts of bitcoin. This means that after a few months you collect money and invest it in Bitcoin, the results will still be the same. And your past weekly or monthly DCA schedule will be covered. Apart from that, the advantage is that transaction fees will feel cheaper than if they were accumulated once a week, once every two weeks, or once a month.

So if you think deeper, Bitcoin transaction fees are expensive or cheap, it's the same, because DCA will still function well.
Because the difference only lies in the matter of accumulation time and nominal amount of money.

But apart from that, actually when Bitcoin transaction fees are expensive, purchases can still be made. But maybe the risk is that for a while the bitcoin will be stored on the exchange until there are a lot of them or the transaction fees are cheap again. However, I do not recommend this, because this action has a higher level of risk.

Yes I quite agree with your idea, however and whatever happens to Bitcoin it all depends on what most of the traders involved there do, on the other hand yes it is obvious that if indeed Bitcoin has a certain pattern then I think this is not trading because most likely the price movement will be predictable and there will only be profit in that situation while on the other hand trading is always about profit opportunities and risk of loss. So we can't make the pattern as the main point to follow because after all it is the history of the price movement that has happened in the past and because something happened exactly as you said.

But on the other hand I would not say that history is not useful at all because obviously it is something that we can combine with the knowledge we have along with what is now happening that has an influence on the price movement of bitcoin. On the other hand, I also always use that method, or that means I always look first at the last price movement before I finally open a trade, making it a benchmark to consider what decisions I will take at a certain time, even if for example in the end my prediction misses but it doesn't matter because there will always be wisdom and something that can be learned to be more developed.

Those who see prices of $20k and $15k and decide to buy them are the ones who are really good at looking at the situation. They are not afraid to see the price drop drastically because it is a golden opportunity that they may not be able to see again in the future.

It is possible that they will postpone their DCA for a while and buy with a larger amount of money than they can afford. That's because they think a golden opportunity should not be missed. But people who buy for investment purposes should also think about the costs because they don't need to buy all-in, which is what I often find. They argue that using big money to buy at low prices can provide a lot of Bitcoin. That's right. But there is no guarantee that the price will remain at that price, and often, the price will decrease again.

Investors must make the best use of the current price correction. If they still use DCA, that's good but if they only buy when the price decreases, they should be able to analyze and determine when to buy.

Those who are scared of seeing their fiat decreasing when Bitcoin is fluctuating are probably Newbies investors who are yet to understand how Bitcoin investment works or probably people who doesn't have an investment plan. Investment plan is really important, as it is going to give you a projection about your holding duration. When this is in place you don't bother yourself in whatever that is happening in the market, you don't bother yourself if your fiat is decreasing or not. Your major concern is just to keep accumulating till you get to the number of years you want to keep holding. People who are investing in Bitcoin needs to be matured emotionally too, because a time will come when your emotions will get on the line and this will determine your line of actions.

I saw that comment and I have tried not to respond but for the same of the many new guys here, it is important we address it once and for all. Your choice of words is perfect because it is truly suicidal to use CEX as a place to store ones assets. The forum is awash with post admonishing people to only keep little funds, probably what they want to use in  centralized exchanges as it is never safe to use it for long time storage. Anyone who have spent some time in the forum would have already seen the phrase "not your keys, not your coins; it is as simple as that. Wherever you have your assets stored, the first question should be if you are in possession of the private keys or seed phrase of the wallet. If the answer is no, then there is need to stop and change.

People tend to forget so soon what danger awaits the centralized exchanges. We have forgotten where we are coming from; from Mt.Gox to FTX and many others. These ugly incidence left people broke, frustrated and depressed. If we cannot learn from the past, how do we progress? Centralized exchanges are never safe for long term holding because there are several ways they can be compromised including collusion of insiders or former staffs.

Recent hike in transaction fees has actually emboldened some people to start using CEX for storage. Even though this may seem understandable, we must be cautious too to avoid regretting at the end of the day. Consequently, suggestions have been made to convert weekly DCA to probably monthly DCA as a way of reducing the number of transaction cum transaction fees. Many of us in this situation have already made the necessary adjustments to continue using the DCA method of buying Bitcoin even when the high fees lingers.