Topic: Buy the DIP, and HODL! - page 436. (Read 123271 times)

Actually this was the same kind of buying strategy or rather method by brother normally use for accumulation of Bitcoin, what he does was that he will have a targeted amount of Bitcoin to be accumulated within a month and with the strategy of watching the market all the time to buy from any little dip he sees so that's the kind of strategy he normally use, according to him he said the method allows him to minimize the amount of money used in accumulating Bitcoin.

What I understand from this method is that it has to do with a lot of patient and consistently watching the market in other to have a good entry,  so is very stressful method and I can't imagine myself using that strategy but however irrespective of the little advantage it may have but it can never be compared with DCA method, because it allows you to set a target and hit it without considering the price movement.

Of course discretionary spending is a product of how much cashflow that you have coming in minus your expenses.  So you can increase your cashflow or decrease your expenses or both.


I agree with you that once someone has identified how great of an investment is bitcoin, then the BTC accumulator might well need to figure out ways to become more passionate about ways in which they can increase their discretionary income and therefore that the amount that they are able to spend on bitcoin every week, month or whatever happens to be their investment period.  And, like you said, sometimes they might be a bit too whimpy in terms of their considering that they are doing enough..

However, at the same time, one of the benefits of DCA and even a modest DCA approach, it can still end up adding up to a lot invested, even for someone who is not very convicted and/or convinced about the value of bitcoin and/or bitcoins asymmetric upside bet..

We cannot expect everyone to become passionate about bitcoin investing.. especially newbies and people who don't really feel too inclined to study and/or to research.


When I first got into bitcoin, I was actually buying every week with my set budget and also trying to find dips within the week in order to maximize my BTC buys for each of the weeks within my set budget for each of the weeks, but most people are not that passionate, and they might well be better off by not being passionate, and just exercising "set it and forget it" so after a year or two, they look at their investment rather than watching it every week like I had been doing and maybe many of the active forum members are willing to do... but normies do not necessarily want to be very active in terms of their BTC investment and that is one of the reasons why DCA can be so powerful for normies who do not want to study or watch their investment with any kind of particularity.


It seems to me that ongoing and persistent buying does help to create more conviction in bitcoin as an investment, even if sometimes the price that any of us might end up paying might not be as low as we wished that it would have had been, but even if we make a bunch of mistakes and consistently buy without selling and sometimes buy at the top and run out of money and we keep going down that ongoing buying path, there are pretty good chances (in bitcoin) that our persistency and consistency will end up paying off...

In other words, from time to time we will analyze our position and our assets and we might even start to determine that we can change our strategy because we have accumulated enough BTC... whether that happens in 1-2 years or maybe it takes 15 years to 20 years, this will vary from person to person regarding how long it might take for the person to start to consider that s/he has enough and s/he can transition from accumulation stage to maintenance stage. and sure maybe the transition will not be 100% clear because even if someone is in maintenance stage they still might accumulate BTC from time to time, but not be so concerned about accumulation because overall such person has determined that s/he has gotten enough bitcoin.


Even though you are correct that some of forum members continue to use such ambiguous language, I see no reason to give them any kind of free passes or even to fail/refuse to correct such nonsense when they employ it and even worse if they want to argue about it rather than just continuing to use it and act like they don't know any better.

I think that the problem would be much worse if no one said anything.  

Even though I might be a bit more of a stickler in regards to needing clarity of that kind of a term than many other members, there are members in a variety of forum threads who repeat such message and attacking the use of such a vague term, and there are even quite a few people in mainstream that continue to make such correction to the folks who are speaking in vagaries and potentially misleading language by using the term crypto without clarifying what they mean.

Sometimes it takes a while for these kinds of ongoing corrections to sink in.

I have had some members telling me:  "well everyone else does it" blah blah blah.. And that is not even close to an acceptable excusable to use vague, amorphous and misleading language.

Now anyone who uses the term crypto and they are sufficiently describing what they mean by such term, then I am not going to be attacking those kinds of uses of the term.  

There are ways to use the term crypto but also to make it clear what you are talking about.  I, myself, use the term crypto from time to time.. and I believe that the overwhelming majority of the time that I use the term crypto, I am not using such a term in vague, misleading and/or amorphous kind of ways.  There are ways to do it, or at least try or at least make it seem that you are making an attempt to be clear.. especially when it comes to how you are talking about bitcoin and when you might be trying to make it seem as if everything is the same.. which surely is an attack-vector on king daddy..

By the way there are smart people and even legislators who use such a term in vague ways, and usually law makers are tasked with making things clear, so when they purposefully introduce vagueness, and/or they define the term in ways that are misleading, then they are also worthy of attack for their use of vague, misleading and/or amorphous language.

I think this message you have been trying to pass since is still not well understood by most people who actually post here because I was once a partaker of such error of relating Bitcoin to other crypto and ever since I got corrected I have careful when it comes to the usage of this two words Bitcoin and crypto . Pardon me sir, but I think many of the users here don't actually mean to relate their discussion to the vast inclusion that the word crypto actually carries as most people just actually feel Bitcoin can be called crypto but I have noticed everytime this word is used in this thread their is always a correction to by you but still yet most of this same users are ignorant to your corrections.

@to all users involved in the discussion here, please the discussion is all about Bitcoin and the possible means of how one can buy and actually hold their Bitcoin for long period without selling of which DCA has come to be a iconic method to achieving this goal so every other altcoins or crypto bullshit is actually not for this thread, please staying on track with the discussion can be of great help to members that are on course to becoming a successful Bitcoin holder some day.

Quite an interesting story and experience you shared here with us I must thank you because i learnt something significant here that I know will help and change the way I go about my investment plan. I understand that It's not only about doing an investment just because you want to, it's about accumulating always even if the price is somewhat different form your speculated price as long as you can afford the gradually purchasing it is good. If you hadn't buy back your Bitcoin then in 2016 before the price skyrocket what would have been the faith of your Bitcoin portfolio now. Hoping for the next halving I am thinking to still accumulating after the halving. Hope it isn't a bad idea?

Without resorting to selling, the best way to get bitcoins is also by increasing what you earn so you can have enough to increase the amount you use for DCA. Someone can get comfortable because they buy small amount of bitcoins consistently. An investor in bitcoins who DCA's $10 every month should not get comfortable because they DCA that amount, there is need to try to focus and search for more ways to increase that amount and not continue with that amount the coming year. Joy should not just come from buying bitcoins regularly, joy should also come when you consider the amount you use in DCA and what you expect to get from your commitment.

Most of the Bitcoin millionaires are true believers. Some are rich individuals who have no clue about Bitcoin. If Bitcoin is fundamentally superior as a store value, they will consider purchasing it as an investment, at the very least. To the rich individuals, a price of $28,000 for one Bitcoin is no big deal. They are simply uninformed yet they will still buy and hold it for a very long time till they become multimillionaire. As long as you a true believer rich/average, without fear on your investment stacking holding your Bitcoin can will lead to massive gains so when is time tell yourself you've worked hard for it and you deserve it.

Well, being clueless also has some disadvantages as you don't know what is actually going on in the market. For higher advantage its best you have knowledge about Bitcoin and still be a true believer, this will enable you to patiently hold long for the future. Anyone who do not have any clue about how Bitcoin works would be completely mistaken to think it's a short term hedge. It's a volatile asset and its difficult to predict. Long run - then for sure.

Sometimes people who are new to bitcoin and/or new to investing might end up making FOMO kinds of mistakes, and I recall that in mid 2015, I had created a system in which I was letting some of my savings build up in case there was a BTC price dip.. so the BTC price was bouncing around in the mid-200s for an overwhelming part of 2015, and in October/November 2015, the BTC price largely shot up from the upper $200s to $500, and I ended up experiencing a kind of panic when the BTC price got up to $500, I bought a pretty decent amount of BTC at that local price top, and I pretty much used up more than 60% of my available cash, and so that was the top of that particular run since BTC prices corrected back down to $300-ish and then got stuck in the lower $400s for about 6 months, and really those BTC that I panic bought right around $500 in November 2015 did not become profitable until the end of May 2016.. and surely the whole situation could have been worse for me if I had not just waited out the whole thing and then compounded my mistake by selling for less than I had bought...

I was not unhappy having had purchased the extra BTC, but surely those extra BTC were bought at a higher price than they otherwise could have had been bought.

so I was not really able to buy the dip back down to $300 and any amount of BTC that I was able to buy in early 2016 was somewhat tempered by my having had used a decent amount of my available cash in November 2015.. even though I did have a bit of a cashflow during late 2015 and early 2016, so I was able to buy some more BTC around $400 before it went back above $500 in May 2016 and really did not ever again return below $500... bitcoin saved me from myself and my mistake, but ONLY because I was able to hodl through my mistake.  

And I learned a lesson from that experience without actually getting reckt too badly in the process...

Another thing with the four year cycles, surely we might be able to imagine that 2023 might be a bit like 2019 and also a bit like 2015.. but that still does not exactly tell us where we might go, even though we might be able to consider some of the similarities in the patterns as a kind of possibility that may end up playing out again (of course, no guarantees), but it does not hurt to be prepared for UP, just in case UP might end up happening.

I would agree if you called them traders instead of investors.
Traders certainly expect quick profits from the strategies they develop, but investors can relatively last longer and ignore market volatility. They are rarely affected by rapid movements like yesterday's fake news, so of course they can avoid more risks.

I guess that's how accumulation is done. You don't need to buy all at once when you have a budget, but you can buy gradually with a good combination of strategies. Buy the dip and DCA is a worthy strategy combination for your investment approach, and I tend to agree with that.

The is true definition of gambling... expensive gambling for that matter because the pain came very fast, just within 10 minutes. Imagine investing that amount when Bitcoin dumped to the $16k region and holding it till now, that would have been a massive win for him. Unfortunately he want it so fast and it ended in tears. probably he is busy now spreading all kinds of FUD about Bitcoin as a way of venting his anger. Well, the market have a way of humbling anyone that want to beat the process of growth.

People forget that most of the Bitcoin millionaires are people who held for long... the time factor must be a constant to be able to maximize the opportunities offered by Bitcoin because there is no shortcut.

This is the type of investor who only targets news to accumulate Bitcoin and there are only two risks, namely if the news is fake then he will lose because the price will immediately fall but if the news is true then he will profit from the price increase. That's what is happening currently in the market, they can make quick losses and quick profits. But I don't really like following the style of buying instantly just for quick profits because it carries a greater risk to what we have planned.

I am more interested in accumulating gradually rather than aggressively because those of us who buy regularly will be more profitable at the level of buying at low prices compared to those who only refer to instant purchases when there is news. But if the buyer does not sell it immediately then he only loses in the fiat estimation, not in his Bitcoin ownership. And he can hold his Bitcoin holdings while waiting for the price to rise again.

You have said well but any amount is suitable for investing as long its what you can afford from your income. Its not advisable to take higher positions or risk the money you cant afford to lose. Stick to a plan and maintain consistency. Most issues beginners have is trying to cover the transactions fees for the little amount of Bitcoin every week when they plan to invest perhaps using DCA strategy. There is an alternative you could commit yourself to save the total money you will used to buy every week  and do a larger buy once a month it could benefit you due to fees. Note you have to discipline yourself so you wont at any point fail to invest the right amount you budgeted. On the other hand, investing $100 every week is a great way to build up your Bitcoin holdings quickly if that's what you can afford.

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Many of us likely realize that bitcoin can be bought in quite small units, so even if so many normies are prone to a similar error in terms of thinking that either they need to get a whole bitcoin, or that it is not worth it to invest into bitcoin, that still does not mean that they are thinking in any kind of informed way that might not be resolved after  inveting further into bitcoin.  

Yes, I believe that I thought something similarly in terms of some of the impracticalities of buying smaller items with bitcoin, but after a bit of study (investigation) into bitcoin, many of us will come to realize how dumb we were (even if we might consider ourselves to be otherwise smart people) to be getting caught up on the unit bias trap.

Surely sometimes we do need to be talking about satoshis too.. but surely many people do have difficulties with these kinds of ideas of 8 digits to the right of the decimal place.. and the fact that fractions can have (and do have) value.. including a lot of value.... who would not like to receive a free gift of 0.00901043 BTC?  

That does not look like a very big number, and if you don't realize that it has value of right around $256 (as I type this post), then yeah you may well end up refusing the gift, but that still should not mean that those of us who are more informed about the topic should not be pointing out their dumbness in that direction.

So it can be frustrating.. but a common error to fail to appreciate the value of 901,043 satoshis as being equivalent to $256... merely because it is expressed as what seems to be a relatively small fraction of a bitcoin.


Yeah, but that is not the right way to look at the matter, especially since if you are investing $20 per week for 20 years, you are also buying at whatever the cost was.. so you may well have ended up getting 10x in returns, but it  is not like you were able to buy all of those BTC at the lower of the prices, so maybe your early injections of $20 per week get around 100x or more and your latest investments ONLY are at break even prices and maybe you are even losing on some of the latest,

but if they all average out to be 10x, then you have to figure how much you put in and how much it is worth. which surely in bitcoin it should not be unrealistic to expect that it will go up and that your earliest of investments will have greater appreciation..

but at the same time the dollar is almost inevitably to go down in value too.. at the same time, when we make our hypotheticals we can build in assumptions about our calculations being based on dollar values of today, which likely would result in the amount of bitcoin value to go up higher than the previous calculated amount in order to have the same expected returns in terms of the 2023 dollar values.


Frequently we should be attempting to make adjustments in order that we are trying to be as aggressive in our bitcoin investment as we are feeling that we are ready, willing and able to accomplish.. without going overboard and causing ourselves to get reckt. Some people earn more money as the years go on based on the depreciation of the dollar, but others make more money because their skills and promotions pay off, so they might start out working minimum wage, but then when they are 20 years or more into their career, they might be making several multiples higher than minimum wage or they might have even stepped up to making very high wages relative to minimum wage (20x to 100x higher than minimum wage), so there surely may be reasons that the person can increase his/her investment into bitcoin, especially if the person does not necessarily increase consumption proportionate to the increased wage so the increases in wage would end up resulting in more investments based on attempts to live a more modest lifestyle and way below his/her means.

There can be hopes that any investments that are made are able to appreciate more rapidly and higher than normal inflation and normal debasement of the currency, and frequently there are differences in the price rises of different kinds of goods, services and assets, so sometimes investment assets will go up a different rate from consumption goods..so then there can be dilemmas regarding where to put value and questions about whether certain goods are services can be deferred or lessened rather than consumed at earlier dates.


Sure it is better to get to fuck you status in your 20s, 30s or 40s, than to get there in your 50s or 60s, yet at the same time, you cannot try to act like you know what is going to happen, so the best that you can do is to try to make all of the better of decisions, and don't end up fuckning up by trying to rush matters.  There rare a lot of folks who never get to fuck you status, ever, so the mere fact of getting there late should not be a problem.

Also, if you only make it 1/4 or 1/2 to fuck you status, you swtill likely will be better off by doing the best that you can and making progress in that direction rather than considering yourself as a failure becuase you did not quite make it to fuck you status.

There are a lot of people in the world (even in affluent countries) who have very little to no savings/investments, and even the amounts of their investments and/or savings might not even amount to 1 or 2 years of their annual salary/cost of living... so fuck you status is usually in the 20x to 30x range of annual income/expenses and so people who reach such status are more likely exceptions rather than the rule.

Entry level fuck you status is just being able to quit your job and to be able to live off of your investments (and/or if you end up being able to receive benefits and/or pension payments), so frequently, if anyone plans to pull such lever at a lower age, even in their 40s, they have to keep in mind that they may well have to support themselves from their investments for quite a long time, so frequently, there are benefits to making sure that the calculations (and valuations) of the assets are based on sound assessments rather than just going based on the spot price of a volatile and fluctuating asset, and bitcoin fits into that highly volatile category.

Small changes in practices might have big rippling affects 10, 20 or 30 years down the road, and we might not even know the extent to which we made good decisions/choices or bad ones until our investment plays out for many years and/or when we either get close to fuck you status or we get into fuck you status (hopefully based on sufficiently accurate calculations).


I agree with the idea if you are talking about bitcoin.  Otherwise fuck crypto... these ideas do not apply so well to crypto.


I think that those are dumb.  I don't like that practice bullshit, unless you happen to be a kid who does not have any money.

I also don't like the idea of  trading.. so fuck trading... we are not talking about that here.

I think that it is better to establish some kind of a small amount to build up.. so if there is some kind of practice that is put into place it is done with real money and maybe small amounts.

Anyhow i this thread we are talking about BTC accumulatingn methods to it could take a long time to accumulate, so it is hard to really practice with that in terms of no value rather than putting some kind of amount into play.. $100 per week, $10 per week, or if you cannot afford that much then $10 per month.. and then when you get your shit together then maybe later you might be able to afford more than $10 per month and work your way up to $100 per week or larger amounts.


Fuck crypto and fuck trading... especially talking about those ideas in this thread.

Let's talk about bitcoin and various methods to accumulate it without necessarily resorting to selling, and if you believe that you need to sell in order to acquire more bitcoin, then you probably need to go talk about those kinds of nonsense (gambling) ideas in some other thread.

If you check bitcoin DCA calculator then we can clearly see that it works best if accumulation period is set for 4 years or more. Its for past history of bitcoin but it gives us an idea about how DCA accumulation works over a period of time.
Good luck to you and to all to reach to there FU Status. We must keep the time period to reach FU Status within our prime age. Its better to have money while we are in our 30s or 40s so we can enjoy the return. Once we are in our 60s, we don't have much energy left to take advantage of that profit. Plan it in a way that we get to our destination or as close to it before we get too old.


It's best thing that if you are new to crypto trading market then you start with small amount rather putting all you have. There are practising stuff like paper trading that let's you do trading without investing any money. They are good for anyone new to trading but they can't give you actual essence of real trading. Just like you learn swimming when you actually jump in water likewise you get real trading experience when you start trading with your money. So there are many things one has to keep in mind while he start his crypto trading journey.

@Roseline492, I have to disagree with what you are saying here, everyone wants to get in a better position. That's why enough people are trying so hard to get to a particular spot that they want, so I don't think that @adultcrypto is saying anything wrong here. However, we are all trying to share our own ideas here, but I still think that he's right.

Although, you might be seeing the other side of what @adultcrypto is trying to say, I do support it with all due respect. He's saying the truth. Just imagine when a low income earner is accumulating $10 per week or month in Bitcoin and finally, the low salary earner starts receiving $100,000 per month. This shows that the investor who was receiving $20,000 in a month as salary and still putting $10 into Bitcoin and now that his monthly salary has increased to $100,000 he should still increase the amount of money he puts in Bitcoin too, and not with the $10 monthly something, at least the investor should try to put about $1k above.

To be honest, you are over-emphasizing the risk involved in Bitcoin even when I have made effort to explain how it is not as much as being presented and how it could be mitigated. A little check of the history of Bitcoin will show that those who dwell in the mindset of how risky Bitcoin is are those who see this journey as gambling in that they just believe they can buy and sell and make huge profit overnight.

Following the fake news of Bitcoin ETF approval by Cointelegraph yesterday that made Bitcoin price surge to around $30k, there was  someone that jumped into the market with with over $600k only to realize it was a fake news and the market started dumping and quickly sold. Do you now that within 10 minutes he lost over $49k. These are the people that Bitcoin is risky for... they want quick profit.

Our discussion here is all about long term HODL and this is a minimal risk approach.

I think I will disagree with you on that, however when we talk about accumulating Bitcoin using $10 on a weekly basis, is actually based on what the investor is earning on a monthly salary, however we cannot expect someone who his salary barely take care of his needs to increase his accumulating amount because indirectly we are telling the person to invest aggressively.

We no that budging $10 for accumulating Bitcoin on weekly basis for 20 years is a bit small but perhaps that's the reason why DCA method was adopted because there people who may not be privileged to receive a higher pay salary but use as little as they can afford to accumulate, so if we consider the possibility of not being able to accumulate a huge amount of Bitcoin in the next 20 years using $10 is almost as good as telling the person not to invest until they have a reasonable amount.

Yes bitcoin is indeed a risky investment, but it is true what you say the risk can be minimized in certain ways and with good planning, and here we get a lot of valuable lessons about what we can do and what we can avoid, and I'm sure many people here have opened their eyes to this bitcoin investment, especially for beginners who are still confused about what they should do.
Not only talking about bitcoin investment we talk about here, but indirectly we also discuss others, such as how to manage finances, which ones should be the top priority and so on.

Yeah having the plans of long time holding is actually the best because it gives you the advantage of not being affected by inflation because as an investor who plans for long time holding is not easily affected by inflation but instead an increment of Bitcoin price can only reduce your accumulating amount, let's take for instance based on your salary ratios and you decided to accumulate $10 worth of Bitcoin with the price $27k on a weekly perhaps there would come a time when the Bitcoin price will rise to $33k you will see that the amount of Bitcoin you use to accumulate using $10 will be reduced but however if you see that your monthly reserve funds are still able to hold any pressing need that may come up, you can as well adjust a bit by increase a little to your accumulating funds.

But although in most cases even if we choose a particular amount use for accumulating there could still be factors that may affect our accumulation sometimes such as plans of other more important things that relates to family and other needs, but as an imvestor we should be able to adjust to any needs or situation that may arise at any time.

I don't see $10 per week as a bad start for a newbie because he just started his bitcoin journey and that will even be more easy for the newbie to afford regularly so that he can continue with his DCA strategy. You should also consider the cash inflow of that investor. I believe that the money that one uses for DCA should be based on his income, so that he doesn't use more than the amount that will affect his plans on accumulating bitcoin regularly.

If as time passes on, income increases, that's fine,  because as an investor, you need to look for other ways to increase your income, in order for you to also increase the amount that is used for regular DCA. This is because it is better to take advantage of increasing your bitcoin portfolio when you have the opportunity. On the other hand if the investor income did not increase, and he didn't see another way of increasing his income, then it is better that he continues with the $10 regular DCA.

Since that investor plans to accumulate for 20yrs, I believe that he will be happy at the end, because he can smile and look at his investment portfolio, disregard how many bitcoin he was able to achieve within these period of time. What I believe is that any investor that has planned to hodli and gradually keep increasing his bitcoin, will get to a time that he will want to increase the amount that he uses for his weekly or monthly DCA, if he can afford it. This is because the more you are getting used to accumulating, your faith in bitcoin will keep on increasing, just as your portfolio is also increasing, because you will keep on understanding the market, the value of bitcoin and you will be happy that you are securing your future.

It is better that you use an amount that you can afford till the end of your accumulating timeline, than you DCA aggressively and something comes up that will make you go and sell from your bitcoin to solve that problem. What I mean is that it is only us that knows the right amount that is easier for us to use for DCA, as long as we don't stop accumulating or get discouraged in accumulating more bitcoin to our investment portfolio.

Due to market inflation and various economic factors that might change in the long run, I guess it's good to have an interest in long-term investment. Some people quickly dismiss investing in Bitcoin because they want to own 1 BTC right away, but when they realize the price of Bitcoin is not cheap, they change their minds. So, this weekly commitment to investing in Bitcoin is better than doing nothing at all.

Based on my calculations, if you stick with $20 a week, you would end up investing $20,857 in 20 years. However, the value you'll be holding at that time is likely to be higher than that. So, if you were to get a 10x return on your initial investment, that's $200,000, which I think is a good outcome compared to not having that money at all. The $20 was just a sample amount, though. You can always go higher, take on more risk, perhaps invest $100 per week or more. Since we can make our own calculations and predictions, our target should be something that we find fulfilling.