Topic: Buy the DIP, and HODL! - page 45. (Read 129208 times)

I accept that the term has negative evocations, and I also accept that the term might be the wrong term to use, BUT we're merely talking about Bitcoin's market dynamics, NOT Bitcoin the network itself AND how that market currently is- with its feedback loops and how it is very speculative in nature - it has "Ponzi-like", but naturally-occurring, characteristics.

The other point why is, currently, Bitcoin is being purchased and HODLed by us more as a commodity that will have higher value later, rather than something that we actually need/use today.

It's also laughable that many people are not trying to get the context.

I am wondering in terms of your point how an investor would be harmed by observing the market itself. See, those who sell their investments because of the slightest change in the market were never investors. Because a successful and experienced investor will never sell his investment because of a slight change in the market. Investors and long-term investors may be aware of market volatility.
Investing is not as difficult as you think. Greed and emotions should be controlled before investing. If the investors can control the emotions in his investments, he may be able to be patient during the slight dumping of the market. Also, investing is not a get-rich-quick strategy. That is why it is said that, Invest only as much as you can afford to lose.
Regardless of the investment method you adopt, it is very important to have a fixed source of income before investing. Because through this source of income you will be able to continue your investment smoothly with the remaining money regardless of income expenditure and family expenses.

Sometimes it can still be helpful to make certain kinds of comparisons, and even to use controversial categorizations, whether talking about gold, bitcoin, Ponzi scheme or anything else, yet it probably would be better to make those kinds of comparisons in ways that are not overly confusing and/or misleading to members, especially when we have so many members who are at various stages in their learning about bitcoin, even if Wind_FURY might be technically correct in his categorizations, it's still misleading to be lumping bitcoin in with ponzi schemes and lumping bitcoin and gold together in the same kind of generalizing ways, and likely we should not need to get into those kinds of arguments in a thread like this in order for Wind_FURY and other members (especially forum members who have been around for a while) to realize that the Ponzi scheme term is confusing and misleading in a similar kind of way that it is misleading and confusing to refer to bitcoin as crypto or a cryptocurrency, even though "technically" it is correct that bitcoin fits into such category, but we still don't go along with such misleading and deceptive term for bitcoin. So, on an application level it is misleading and leading us into mostly irrelevant (and unnecessary) tangents to be both suggesting bitcoin fits into a Ponzi scheme category and to be blanketedly referring to bitcoin to be similar to gold in that regard.


If you are planning to play a 3-4 year BTC price wave (or a 3-4 year timeline), you are trading.  You are not investing.

Sure, do whatever you want, but your referral to yourself as an investor and trying to suggest that BTC investors are choosing such a 3-4 year timeline as "a BTC investment" is misleading when you are in fact trading what you expect to be a BTC price wave.. even if you might be taking a longer timeline than someone who might be looking at 1-2 years.. so what.. it is the same thing with just an extra year or two added on.. you are not investing.. you are trading..


You are still talking like a trader.. the idea of "extracting profits" is a trading idea.

I would suggest that investing is going to be 10 years or longer, even though we allow the idea of shorter term investments of 4-10 years because there are some folks who might need shorter than 10 years because they have health and/or age considerations that might not allow them to invest up to 10 years, so it would be acceptable for them to have as short as a 4 year time horizon in terms of when they might start to withdraw their BTC (based on price and/or time) and still be considered an investor rather than a trader..   Anyone planning on withdrawing less than 4 years is trading rather than investing and anyone who is merely playing longer waves to just get in and out of bitcoin is trading also, even if they might have longer than 4 year timelines, and they have that mindset of getting in and out.

In the end, each of us can do whatever we want, yet there still seem to be different mindsets between  traders and investors, and sometimes the traders are trying to call themselves investors merely because they are trading on a longer timeline...   and sure don't get me wrong.. each of us mighty come to any investment and change our minds, so we always have absolute discretion to change our minds about how we want to allocate our time, energy and value.. so we never lose that, even if we might purposefully choose to invest into something like bitcoin on a longer timeline that is more like 10-20 years or longer or we plan to invest into bitcoin until we reach our accumulation target and then at that point or sometime thereafter we might start to employ sustainable withdrawal strategies (price based and/or time based) in which we might be living off some or all of our bitcoin for the remainder of our lives and/or passing some down to our heirs, too..


Oh gawwwwddd.   I doubt that avp2306 is the ONLY one not really "getting it"..   Bitcoin (and gold) naturally occurring "good kinds of Ponzis" because they fall into naturally occurring feedback loops..likely affecting price.. ..

To me, it still sounds misleading and unnecessary to get into such categorizing.


Yeah.. Wind_FURY.. start to think different, and grow dee fuck up...   "We" (not just royal, either) cannot be tolerating your ongoing unseriousness.

 


Hahahahaha.. I doubt "we" need to invite Wind_FURY to explain anymore than he already has..


Yeah.. This time, he is serious.  For sure. 

He also gets mad sometimes when he is trying to be serious, and peeps don't want to listen to him... I wonder how that came about?


You are absolutely correct that even beginners need to figure out their own strategy so that they do not become overly reliant on advice that they get on the interwebs, and surely some information is going to be better than other information, so they have to sort the good from the bad and come to their own conclusion in regards to how much weight to give to various kinds of information, even if it might come from a forum member who might seem to know what they are talking about.


You seem to be getting overly excited about the possibility of trading, Oshio-man.  Have you already accumulated enough BTC in the last nearly 5 months that you have been registered on the forum.  Did you start accumulating BTC prior to your forum registration?

Are you investing into bitcoin or trading?  How long is your investment timeline?


That is almost the most retarded advice that I have ever heard from another forum member.  Are you assuming that whoever you are advising has already got some BTC or not?

What if the forum member does not have any BTC?

What if the member has been accumulating BTC for about 5 months?  Similar to your forum registration date?

What if the forum member had been accumulating BTC for 1 year, 2 years, 3 years? or some other quantity of time?  Would those kinds of facts change your recommendation?

Do you need to know anything else about the forum member?  or you just think blanketedly $50k is a good entry point for BTC?



Sure, for BTC, long term does tend to be better than short term, yet I still wonder how you would consider that there would be any kind of a concern or a value for someone who is buying long term to wait for $50k rather than buying at our current BTC price of $67.5k -ish?  Sure $50k-ish is about 25% less than $67.5k-ish, but still don't we need to know more?  And, if we make a general presumption about the total population of the world (or anyone who might be reading this thread), then what should we presume about the status of such potential person?  Does the average person already have bitcoin or not?  Anything else that we might presume about the average person who might be reading this thread?  Sure, they have some kind of an interest (or curiosity) about bitcoin, but what else is going on with any such person that might be relevant to whether waiting until $50k might be a prudent and/or reasonable approach to bitcoin?

New people in the scene would provably not understand what he say and what comes up with their mind first is the scam because of word Ponzi inserted on his opinion. People will not digest all the message he want to imply and for sure that there's only one word they can remember, to bad if that Ponzi thing will come up to them then it will give bad reputation to Bitcoin.

That's why its not good to associate it with other term or currency so that we can get straight up facts and people could easily figure out Bitcoin and its real use case. Insisting to validate his statement will not bring anything to the discussion whatever good his intention. Since if there's something that can confuse people then that doesn't contribute good to them.

When it comes to investment age is just a number. Anyone could possibly start to invest in Bitcoin as early as they want if they are able to afford investing in it. For me i can easily say the younger the better. Many people have different or similar knowledge and understanding about how Bitcoin works and at a tender age it will be more of an advantage because before they grow up completely they must have have an in depth knowledge of Bitcoin. If it was not possible for them to start investing in Bitcoin then, it will be a lot easier for them to go about it when they start working and have money to buy Bitcoin.

What i can say more is that, no matter the age we are, its best to invest at our pace and financial level then spend time understanding Bitcoin more.

I want you to understand that any bitcoin investment that is below 4 years is not a long-term investment, and you should not encourage any investor to sell his bitcoin after 3 years because he might be chasing short-term profit, which does not align with the aim of this thread.

You are sounding as if you are passing through a lot of stress or pressure in accumulating bitcoin or you are depriving yourself your basic needs just to accumulate bitcoin. we are aware of the volatile part of bitcoin, and that is why it is always good to invest in bitcoin with the money you will not need for 4-10 years or more so that you will not be dismayed if there is a little drop in bitcoin price or sell you bitcoin even though you are at a loss just to survive.

If we have two newbies who want to start their bitcoin investment, the DCA strategy is the right strategy for them to adopt in accumulating bitcoin, and it will work out for both of them unless one of the newbies uses all his money to invest in bitcoin—that is only when the DCA strategy will not work out for both of them. Even though newbies are relying on this thread to start up their bitcoin investment, that doesn't stop them from carrying out their research about bitcoin because it will help them widen their knowledge about bitcoin, but I want you to know that all the methods or strategies used in accumulating bitcoin have been mentioned and discussed here.
I know it is good to accumulate bitcoin during the bear market because you will accumulate a lot of bitcoin with small money, but it is not right for someone to wait for the bear market before he can start his bitcoin. You can start accumulating bitcoin with the DCA strategy whenever your money is readily available, which will allow you to be more active in accumulating bitcoin than someone who is waiting for the bear market to come before he can start his bitcoin investment. Trying to time the market will not be of any help to you, and it might delay your bitcoin accumulation journey or make you miss out on bitcoin because you are not certain if bitcoin will dip today or tomorrow.

I think you misunderstood his point , all he is saying is that for investors that want to take buying advantage instead of continually monitoring the market they can go for the option he stated which will save them the strees and botheration of always checking the market. There are investor who are using dca strategy in accumulating bitcoin and may also want to buy the dip so  the best way will be for them to time the market while still doing there normal dca strategy inorder for them to know when the price dip, so the the fact that an investor want to buy the dip will not stop him from accumulating bitcoin , you can be doing dca ,buy the dip and still do lump sum if you have the discretionary income to do so.finally justbilliwitt advise is purely for those investor that are using dca strategy and buying the dip in accumulating bitcoin

Actually it doesn't matter if you invest and then continue to monitor the market as long as you are strong HODL your investment in the long run it will be fine, which is a problem where their mentality is weak when market conditions are unstable then there sometimes take steps to sell because of panic or other reasons.

Make sure to invest with a long term goal of 4-5 years is a good period.
Make sure to have another job that is a source of additional income so that in any situation you will remain calm because you still have reserves.
A lot of negative news comes in a lot of times so don't care, you must be able to focus on plans where long-term investment.

It doesn't even make any difference,  what if you do not get any notification of the actual price you think it is good for you to buy bitcoin that means you will keep waiting for the price to fall so that you can bitcoin.  Both monitory the market and putting notification of price to know when to buy don't really change anything,  they can make one not to even invest in bitcoin at all. The reason why many normally miss opportunities of investing bitcoin is because they always want to buy at a time and price that will suit them and waiting to get the price they may end up not seeing such price because bitcoin can't be predicted.

Just buy bitcoin when you have the opportunity to buy, waiting for price can be delaying which you may never come across and at the end of it all you will still regret not buying when you had the opportunity to buy.

I do not think that holding bitcoin have anything to do with age but a personal choice and conviction. No doubt it will be more beneficial for an investor to start investing and holding bitcoin at a younger age but sometimes not many young people are easy to spot such opportunities early enough but those who do are able to make the later part of their lives more beautiful and less stressful. You may want to recur that at younger age, the distraction is very high especially due to peer influence, social trends and many others that make young people spend money on frivolities. It is at certain stages that the idea of independence begin to set in and that is the point investment options begin to dominate their thinking.

Fortunately, the creation of the internet that made a forum like this accessible to people from all works of life now avail us the opportunity to get financial education at a very early age, hence the reason more people are already planning for their future at a very young age. On the right time of a person to be established, that depends on a lot of factors, some of which are beyond the control of anyone. There are many that are established before they turn 20 whereas there are those that achieved success at their 50s, so it is relative and there is no single formula to it. The good news is that bitcoin now give us the opportunity to grow at our own pace, for those who embrace the technology and are able to invest part of their regular income into it.

I saw this statement earlier in the past lines of thread but said nothing because a lot of users already refute his choice of phrase combination, he might be trying to make a decent point but around the words he used in composing the statement seems to contradict the real essence of Bitcoin.

First, Ponzi as a single word already gives a non legit sense which mean inscribing Bitcoin into it even in a bit draws a line that relates the both like a scam scheme. Bitcoin is 100% legit, which i am sure @Wind Fury will completely agree, Bitcoin already crossed through the phase of condemnation whereby people propose it as scam investment, left for anyone in the forum referring to it in a more indecent manner. In as much we have been following up this thread, we discuss here to keep learning which i believe @Wind Fury can aswell take a brief lesson and accept that nothing seems to connect Bitcoin and Ponzi.

What you said is true because i was really confused when i saw what wind Fury said about bitcoin being a naturally occurring ponzi to me is a misleading statement morespecially for a newbie like me and others , if you want to introduce someone to bitcoin and you use the term naturally occurring ponzi scheme , you will end up scaring them away .i think what proty said is right instead of naturally occurring ponzi describe it with a more acceptable term.

A young man's bitcoin is more convenient and easier for him to hold in the long run. As soon as a person is 25 years of age or somewhat less or more. In this case, if he holds it for 3 or 4 cycles, then he can invest his money in a real estate business or any other business with that investment and create a source of income for life management. Or he can use this money to improve his quality of life more. I think around 40 years of age or less would be the right time for a person to get established. Every action has a reaction, if you can make the investment at this young age by making sacrifices and prolonging it then you can expect something good in return later or something good is expected of you. If you have been thinking of luxury since now, it is difficult to expect anything good in response in later life.

Describing bitcoin with the term naturally occurring  ponzi sound more scary and confusing to me because of my experience with ponzi which i believe so many have had such experience ,you maybe actually trying to prove a point but by using the term ponzi scheme which makes what you are saying to appear misleading. Ponzi scheme has done more harm than good and bitcoin is nothing of such so describing bitcoin as a naturally occurring ponzi will only end up in scaring newbie in investing in bitcoin  and making them to view bitcoin as a scam because of what ponzi is known for .so i would advise you look for a more suitable term  in driving down your point instead of ponzi scheme.

This is very wrong and can be possible to misleading newbies, it is Bitcoin we are talking about here hence the watin strategy before accumulating Bitcoin is wrong for someone that is still very early in his or her Bitcoin journey,
If actually buying to hold for as long as necessary is the motive it is a total waste of time waiting for a price drop before buying, perhaps there is no certainty that the price will go as low as you plan or it could even probably go higher and at such resulting missing good buying opportunities when you had the chance to. The logic is to buy whenever you have the money readily available for investment irrespective of the price points, whether in bear or bullish, the DCA strategy is long overly emphasis and it worth reminding  as it helps investors increase their holding irrespective of the price points and allow them to make investment decisions without any form of pressure.

When even people hear the word Ponzi they refer it to be a scam investment and that is what it is where by you invest today and make some million dollar tomorrow because through this information has most persons lost a reasonable amount of money, and using that word Naturally-Occurring Ponzi is what I don't understand those that knows what Ponzi scheme is who has interest to invest in Bitcoin might decide not to invest because they will think is a scam investment due to the word Naturally-Occurring Ponzi honestly it could be misleading.

If you are still young, it is good that you extend your bitcoin investment timeline to 10 years and above because that is what really seems to be a long-term duration. You should know that the more you are increasing and hodli your bitcoin investment for a longer time, the more you have a bigger chance of increasing your bitcoin investment and enjoy the compounding effect of your portfolio overtime. You will easily get to your bitcoin target and have a good size of bitcoin in future.

Three years is not considered to be a long-term, but if you sell your bitcoin portfolio after four years, what will you be using the fiat currency for that will depreciate due to inflation, and will you start all over again to accumulate. If you know that you will still buy back after selling all your bitcoin or you know that you love to have bitcoin investment, then there's no need to sell at all and focus on a longer timeline than wasting te time that you will be using to increase your bitcoin investment for the future sake than selling after every four years to buy again.

If you are already old, four years timeline is ok so that you don't die and leave your bitcoin investment when it is not of your will.

Beginniners should know that not everything they see or hear from a thread they will use to establish their own investment, there are some strategies that will work for Mr John and it will not work for Mr Paul if they invest different capital in that investment, you as a beginner, you need to carry out your personal research before doing what you hear or seen in the thread because there are methods they will not display on that thread for you not to know everything about the methods but if you concentrate and go deeper in research, you will definitely get it right to boost your income in your investment. Bear season is the right way to earn income in your holding when bull season begin to display, do you want to buy bitcoin now? I will advice you to wait for the price to decrease back to $50k before you can buy and hold for long years, before you can think of release them for sale and it will open your eyes to see that long holding is profitable than short holding.

I have known @wind fury to be an unserious and unscrupulous human being. I am beginning to think he's a chameleon walking through the dry and green leafs without a permanent colour. He jeopardize or mess up things a curney way and pretend as if it was a joke perhaps he is indirectly being serious but lack the courage to say it openly. It would be better @wind fury you make your opinion openly than beating around the Bush. He has never been serious for once. He has even made an attempt of changing the thread multiple times without a tangible reason. If he continues like this his words may not be taken seriously or may be seen as misleeding to the newbies who are up coming.

@Wind Fury!! It's better you start being serious and reasonable for once.  I Think you will likely explain more on the deffirent between

1) Ponzi Schemes that has a nefarious entity on top.
2) "naturally-occurring Ponzi Like Gold,."

The funny part is that when he starts being directly unserious he uses this sticker to act as if he was not being serious, perhaps he is serious

I'm sorry if you didn't get the context. I'm NOT calling Bitcoin a "Ponzi Scheme" because it's NOT that. Bitcoin is a Naturally-Occurring Ponzi. It's "Ponzi-Like", like Gold, it's NOT a Ponzi Scheme like those scams you read about in the news.

If you actually study and understand the market dynamics of Bitcoin and Gold, it does have a resemblance to a naturally-occurring Ponzi-Like process. - That creates a feedback loop from investors and speculators' positive projections/expectations which causes price surges WITHOUT a nefarious entity and WITHOUT fraudulent behavior.

I'm NOT saying that the market is a scam, ser. If you don't understand or didn't get the context, then I'm sorry.