Considering facts
aTriz should release the script
He's screwed otherwise
With the dox threat on the line, aTriz has essentially zero leverage. Instead of being controlled and then be doxxed anyway (something that is going to inevitably happen) he should just release the script and at least partially absolve himself of suspicion.
Excellent point.
That’s what I would do, if I were in aTriz’s position. Of course, it is unlikely that I would ever get into aTriz’s position in the first place. I say this as the person here who was apparently the
second most entangled with Alia—and did not incur any similar state of vulnerability; not even close!
Forum rules:8. No threats to inflict bodily harm, death threats.
Bodily harm can be physical or psychological, as atriz said he is
addict(i used
IS because no one can truly be cured from any kind of addiction) I would say this threat could cause psychological bodily harm which can lead to depression which is main addiction trigger and which can lead to deeper problems for aTriz.
I think it’s unnecessary to
creatively interpret forum rules, when this is an
especially “especially obvious” case of “just using the dox as a weapon”:
Q: What about deleting DOXes?
A: Nope, we don't delete them either as long as they comply with the following rules:
Quote from: theymos on August 05, 2016, 04:23:54 AM
<...>
1. Personal information must be confined to the new "investigations" board (under Scam Accusations), which is only visible to Members and above. Personal information is defined as anything which links a user's online identity (username, email, etc.) to their meatspace identity, excluding links that the person himself has posted. It is not allowed to post somebody's personal information in any other public place, including in signatures.
2. It is not allowed to post someone's dox if it is especially obvious that you're just using the dox as a weapon. For example, if there are no remotely-plausible trade complaints, then the person can't be a scammer, and their dox should not be posted.
It seems to me that alia should be indeed banned.
Being new here, I am not fully familiar with the intricacies of forum rules on doxing. I am not quite sure what would get banned, and what would simply be deleted. But Alia’s threats are clearly over
any reasonable line, on that particular point.
I don't understand why moderators are banning users for plagiarism and are ignoring serious threats like this one.
Aside: Plagiarism is a serious offense. Please do not argue as if it were the lesser.
(Further aside: Moderators have no ban power; administrators have that.)
If he used crash site such as bustabit he can show us his profile without showing the script. We will see everything from it and he won't break any agreement he made with (s)cam girl.
There are two severable issues here, thus two different threads: The questioning of aTriz about his own actions, and the probative value of the script for investigating Alia.
Note that aTriz’s good-faith assistance with the latter would answer much of the former. Your suggestion would neither establish that aTriz used a betting script (much less
the betting script being sold), nor provide significant evidence on Alia.
@suchmoon, @tmfp, you make a reasonable point—but thereupon, I have a reasonable question for you: When a good-faith party makes naïve mistakes which cause him to get backed into a corner by a criminal extortionist who obtains personally identifiable information, what is the best strategy to recover?
Having reviewed the matter carefully, I think that the best possible assumptions about aTriz are the most probable assumptions: A naïve individual with some admitted flaws (including past gambling addiction) was acting in good faith, and got fooled worst by a “confidence artist”—one who also fooled many other people to various degrees. And I think it’s clear that the principal question about aTriz (the vouch for the script) was in a different category than assigning blame for a leak of PII. Really, could you hold aTriz culpable for the unforeseen consequences of having made a Paypal transaction!?
....
Excuse the quote edit, but culpability is irrelevant, as is speculation about aTrix's story of naive brainfade in getting himself into this situation.
The best strategy to recover?
In the movies? A
big mea culpa scene with loved ones and strings and tears is an option.
In organized crime? Run for the hills, before your erstwhile buddies rub you out because you're a compromised weakness that threatens them.
In crypto? Dump the account and start again.
The "script" is incidental now.
Well, I think Alia would be thrilled to wreck aTriz’s business and force him to hit the NEWNYM button.
That’s not really much of an argument. Abstract justice is; and so is this:
I think it depends on the actual threat level to aTriz—something which only aTriz can assess. There are plenty of people on this forum who are pseudonymous, and continue with their well-established nyms after having been doxed. (The most notable example, as you know, is someone at a
very high level here.)
If aTriz uses Paypal, Skype, and Gmail (presumably without strong countermeasures), then it is clear that his pseodonymity requirements are quite low in the first instance. Either that, or he is much more foolish than anybody imagines.
So—it is up to aTriz to understand his own threat model, assess what real-life risks he could incur by being totally doxed in public, and balance that against the cost of NEWNYM. Given that he’s a founding partner in a growing business, NEWNYM cost would be very high for him—a fact which Alia well knows...
(I offer to consult on that threat model; if aTriz so desires, he may contact me privately for that purpose.)
I agree that aTriz should just release the script, but he need not release it publicly.
The script can be released to some mutually agreed to party such as Ibminer or RGBKey, or someone else with technical knowledge... both ibminer and RGBKey have already been agreed to by alia at one point in time or another, but in the end, it is likely that you cannot trust alia to stick with her word, anyhow, so fuck alia.. .
In other words, if either Ibminer nor RGBKey wants to review the script, then someone else with technical knowledge and trustworthiness can be agreed to whether alia agrees or not... this is not about alia, and the script is a seeming central evidentiary issue in the aTriz actions matter (alia seems to have already sunk herself beyond redemption, even if the script seems to be all things that she claims it to be) - and whether alia choses to dox aTriz or not, that does not seem like something that aTriz or anyone else here can really control from a seemingly untrustworthy turd-like behavior already happening from alia who has already made such irrational, amorphous, seemingly exaggerated and ridiculous doxing threats on a few occasions.
Caution, please: RGBKey offered an audit in a circumstance different from what has now developed. I would not hold him to that offer here, in a different context. I think that only RGBKey can say if he wants to step into a now much escalated mess involving extortion and doxing against other users. (
N.b. that I was careful not to suggest him as an auditor when I had that idea independently. I was glad when he offered an audit of his own initiative.)
When has ibminer ever offered to audit this script? To the best of my knowledge, Alia “offered” that on his behalf; I’ve asked why she named ibminer for that, and Alia ignored me. I don’t even know if ibminer claims the requisite specialist competency—I know he’s smart, but so am I, and I myself am not competent to perform a professional audit of this script. (RGBKey is.)
Note also: Such a private audit is usally
paid, and paid well. It was magnanimous of RGBKey to offer an audit for free. I infer that he was acting in the public interest, just as do many skeptical investigators who perform competent scientific investigations of extraordinary claims.
Really, could you hold aTriz culpable for the unforeseen consequences of having made a Paypal transaction!?
Unfortunately - yes. This is a Bitcoin forum, no a let-me-dox-myself-via-PayPal forum.
Damn it, suchmoon, you are beginning to sound like me:
Can we pay with ETH instead? BTC is too slow and fees are 2 high.
This is the Bitcoin Forum. It is not the Altcoin Forum, and most particularly not the Bolt A Turing Complete VM Onto A Blockchain Security Nightmare With Centrally Controlled
Promise-Breaking Via “
Irregular State Change” Exploding Clown Car Cryptokitties Toy Coin Forum.
Expect for the official coin of the realm to be Bitcoin.
While I agree with the overall sentiment of your defense of aTriz, and I would like to believe him, it's his owns actions that created this mess.
True—the excuse of having been a scam victim does have limits; and aTriz is ultimately responsible for his own actions, just as is the rule for everybody.
Weird-ass sig contract,
This, I much understand due to Alia having ridden in on my coattails:
Do we get the sig space of your alt nullius as well?
I think most people would agree that locking up
my signature for three years at 1.1 BTC would be cheap at thrice the price.
No, that is not an offer. I am simply (again!) pointing to the context of the signature deal with Alia.
This does not explain why the contract was so poorly written; but it does much to explain the unprecedented deal with a Jr. Member (plus why I feel at least some level of moral responsibility toward aTriz in the matter).
vouching for something he admittedly doesn't understand,
That was bad. But given the totality of the circumstance, I myself would be willing to give him a pass on that—albeit unavoidably, with incrementally decreased trust in the soundness of his judgment. (Here distinguishing trustworthiness of wise judgment from trustworthiness of honest intentions.) I think this seems consistent with the earlier results of this thread, when it was locked before.
doxing himself to a noob...
Ironically, whilst penning
a short essay which included these words:
Moreover, teenagers and young adults need to be protected against exploitation which can come from unexpected directions—sometimes in the sense of a computer software exploit. (I am here thinking of the notorious erstwhile darkweb site which collected private nude selfies for the express purpose of deliberately humiliating young women; much of their material was obtained by hacks.)
...I was also thinking of college girls (plus bored housewives) who become “camgirls” whilst trying to conceal their faces. I see plenty of that. That is what I believed Alia to have been. Most of them are probably doxable,
easily.
This is why I mentioned aTriz’s (unreliably I think) alleged age, which would make him at oldest a tot when Paypal was founded. The younger generation grew up immersed in—no,
tangled in the Interwebs. Slinging off a Paypal transaction is something they do without a second thought.
There are
many people innocently, naïvely wrecking their own privacy nowadays. As a privacy activist, I am motivated to help them, not to hurt or condemn them. I do condemn those who are
apathetic about privacy (and most of all, those who take the “if you have nothing to hide” active anti-privacy line; but I don’t think that’s at all relevant here). If aTriz were to show substantial interest in learning to better protect his privacy in the future, I think this would be an opportunity to help fix a
widespread problem—one case at a time.
(I say the foregoing as someone who has volunteered much time and effort trying to help people
including Alia learn security and privacy. I’ve been doing that for decades. Most of my such efforts have been futile. P.S.,
use PGP!)
I don't yet see evidence of ill intent on his part but he's shown poor judgement on more than one occasion and is now dependent on the benevolence of a known scammer.
Agreed, yes, and yes.
Wherefore I suggest the following constructive approach for aTriz:
- Immediately commit a SHA-256 hash of the script.
- Assess threat model. Per what actmyname said, consider depriving Alia of all future leverage by immediately releasing the script.
- Address remaining reasonable questions, such as my above questions about non-public communications with Alia on the date of 1 March 2018 (as measured in UTC time).
I do think that aTriz started with a sufficiently good reputation that he could weather this and recover, if he handles the matter appropriately.
I suggest the long-term perspective: One year hence, when I make Hero rank in Activity Period 1283, the Alia affair will be only a moderately embarrassing footnote in my forum history. Ten years hence, I’ll need to think hard to even remember it—“what’s ‘alia’?” So as for my part. Such a view can aid in clear decision-making.
Disclosure: I have no past, present, or immediately prospective business dealings with aTriz as an individual—also not with ALU as a quasi-entity. I have no proximate financial interest in the outcome of this investigation.
