Card Counting in Blackjack - page 4.

Yogee

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Quote from: Coin_trader on October 13, 2020, 10:37:24 AM

Casino already developed a defense mechanism to counter this card counting and I believe you are not aware on it because you start this discussion without considering it. There's a thing called CSM (continuous shuffling machine) and it destroys the card counting method. Most of pro blackjack player claiming that it didn't affect card counts was lying. They are just claiming because they are selling there tutorial online so that gamblers will still interested to purchase there online course but in reality card counting is useless anymore on most casino. You are lucky if you find one that didn't used that.

I agree with that part. Easy to say but do we even know their win rate when they actually play and apply whatever techniques they are talking about? I read that some players avoid playing in Vegas since card counting isn't effective there.

I also read that some players try to put a pressure on smaller casinos by avoiding tables with CSM. No players in that table means no profit for the small casino.

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Quote from: Lorence.xD on October 13, 2020, 10:56:06 PM

Quote from: Coin_trader on October 13, 2020, 10:37:24 AM

There's a thing called CSM (continuous shuffling machine) and it destroys the card counting method. Most of pro blackjack player claiming that it didn't affect card counts was lying. They are just claiming because they are selling there tutorial online so that gamblers will still interested to purchase there online course but in reality card counting is useless anymore on most casino. You are lucky if you find one that didn't used that.

Isn't the Solution 4 that I put in the thread starter the same as CSM? I think I covered that part.
How can you say that professional players in blackjack are lying? Do you know their minds work?
Why would you get an online course for card counting when I dropped a link in the thread starter? There are a lot of Youtube videos and Google articles that can teach you card counting. I get that I am not an expert but I think if you know how to card count and you know what is the number of decks in the shoe, your confidence in winning goes higher.

Automatic shuffler is different in continuous CSM. As the word "continuous" define itself. Because there is a shuffling machine too. If that's what you are pertaining on solution 4 maybe you should revise that for clarification.

As for my statement above. I know that you are not pro and my statement is not for you when I write that. I just give some sample of what I observe. Try to read my post again. Zzzzz. Its for the self proclaimed pro that selling tutorial. Card counting is almost obsolete. The reason why some Pro Blackjack still win is because they have there own method to count card which not release in public.

Why you are so defensive if you are not a pro?? Been playing blackjack half of my life dude and I watch and study tons of guide on card counting. Do you want some udemy lesson? I might share you my lectures.

EDIT:

Most of the online blackjack especially evolution gaming shuffle the the whole deck once they consume half of the deck. You can add that part on the solution.

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Quote from: Lorence.xD on October 13, 2020, 09:41:19 PM

Quote from: Wexnident on October 13, 2020, 08:14:39 AM

It's not applicable anymore in big casinos give it up. Casinos have countless cameras as well as personnel all over the casino, making it so that they can notice any odd movements or actions whenever players gamble. Not to mention that you've also stated about a few strategies they use to prevent count carding, such as using more decks than normal and the like. As for the online casinos, they can just simply use again more decks whenever putting out the cards, so that card counting would be a lot more difficult.

I would like to disagree, card counting is still a thing. Did you not read my post, I said there that it wasn't illegal so why would you put cameras for something legal. What is with strange movements that indicates that someone is card counting? Do they have to twitch in a way when they are card counting? The answer is no, again if you are good enough you can count cards mentally and it is subjective perspective if someone is card counting, you might see that they are counting but they might be just having a lucky day. I do not believe it is not applicable, yes if you are a pro then you might be banned but for an average Joe, I do not think so.

It is a thing but it is a very difficult thing to do. There is a reason why card counters are near genius or kind of math savants or memory wizards and the like. Only a handful of people is capable of doing it, and with much practice.

In casinos, cameras are installed to not just monitor illegal stuff and strange movements but also of strange winning patterns. Casinos are complex business animals. A certain table is losing a much bigger amount and it may raise suspicion. A certain man taking a much bigger winning may also raise the same suspicion. Make it a pattern and cameras are actually zoomed in your face in the security room.

Lorence.xD

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Quote from: Coin_trader on October 13, 2020, 10:37:24 AM

There's a thing called CSM (continuous shuffling machine) and it destroys the card counting method. Most of pro blackjack player claiming that it didn't affect card counts was lying. They are just claiming because they are selling there tutorial online so that gamblers will still interested to purchase there online course but in reality card counting is useless anymore on most casino. You are lucky if you find one that didn't used that.

Isn't the Solution 4 that I put in the thread starter the same as CSM? I think I covered that part.
How can you say that professional players in blackjack are lying? Do you know their minds work?
Why would you get an online course for card counting when I dropped a link in the thread starter? There are a lot of Youtube videos and Google articles that can teach you card counting. I get that I am not an expert but I think if you know how to card count and you know what is the number of decks in the shoe, your confidence in winning goes higher.

TravelMug

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Quote from: Lorence.xD on October 13, 2020, 01:31:17 AM

Quote from: TravelMug on October 13, 2020, 12:54:52 AM

For online we don't see that, and then there's the element of RNG (random) that is on their side. They can shuffle every x deal, or not. So I don't think the card counting will be effective in online games.

If you know how many decks there is in the shoe, you can see if you will be winning. There is no RNG in blackjack because there is a fixed number of cards in the deck maybe the chances are what you are talking about. It is unfair for people to just kick you out or ban you because you are winning.

That is if "you know", Lol, you have really played on an online black jack? regardless if it's live dealer or not? or played in a traditional based casino? You can read ToS of some famous online gambling sites and you will see that they have all the power to even not pay you if they suspect you are cheating them. I put RNG because I'm thinking of a blackjack with no live dealers. But with live dealers still the same, just look at the video being posted.

The same in a traditional based, card counting is not illegal, but if the pit boss recognised you, or they have a slit hint that you are doing it, you get kick out and your pictures and info in the "Black Book".

Lorence.xD

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Quote from: Wexnident on October 13, 2020, 08:14:39 AM

It's not applicable anymore in big casinos give it up. Casinos have countless cameras as well as personnel all over the casino, making it so that they can notice any odd movements or actions whenever players gamble. Not to mention that you've also stated about a few strategies they use to prevent count carding, such as using more decks than normal and the like. As for the online casinos, they can just simply use again more decks whenever putting out the cards, so that card counting would be a lot more difficult.

I would like to disagree, card counting is still a thing. Did you not read my post, I said there that it wasn't illegal so why would you put cameras for something legal. What is with strange movements that indicates that someone is card counting? Do they have to twitch in a way when they are card counting? The answer is no, again if you are good enough you can count cards mentally and it is subjective perspective if someone is card counting, you might see that they are counting but they might be just having a lucky day. I do not believe it is not applicable, yes if you are a pro then you might be banned but for an average Joe, I do not think so.

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Quote from: Lorence.xD on October 13, 2020, 09:02:55 PM

Quote from: bitzizzix on October 13, 2020, 07:55:30 AM

Yes, the casino won't care if the winnings are always on your side and during the game you still have small losses and have more wins.
But if you continue to win every game and never lose, chances are the casino will act and be investigated with suspicion and there will be follow-up that could hurt you because every casino has rules.
for whatever reason the house will always win and reign.

In my opinion, there is a certain amount where casinos will take action against someone winning. I mean, why would they be alarmed when someone is on a winning streak when the win does not exceed 4-digits. If the rules can hurt the player then they would not be playing there at all, pretty funny that everyone here thinks that casino rules are against the players when in reality there are only few rules needed. And casino does not always win, if you search in Google right now about people winning a lot in casinos, I think your point will be busted.

If you win the jackpot then that is the time the casinos will lose but for sure they can bring it back easily by making a losing streak with the other players.
Card counting is very risky, and even if your winning streak is just a small amount of money as long as its on the Blackjack, you can still be on the watch list and might be put on hold until they prove something against you. Besides, the card counting is not easy at all and I'm not good with numbers so I wont try this one as well.

Lorence.xD

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Quote from: bitzizzix on October 13, 2020, 07:55:30 AM

Yes, the casino won't care if the winnings are always on your side and during the game you still have small losses and have more wins.
But if you continue to win every game and never lose, chances are the casino will act and be investigated with suspicion and there will be follow-up that could hurt you because every casino has rules.
for whatever reason the house will always win and reign.

In my opinion, there is a certain amount where casinos will take action against someone winning. I mean, why would they be alarmed when someone is on a winning streak when the win does not exceed 4-digits. If the rules can hurt the player then they would not be playing there at all, pretty funny that everyone here thinks that casino rules are against the players when in reality there are only few rules needed. And casino does not always win, if you search in Google right now about people winning a lot in casinos, I think your point will be busted.

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Yeah, I remember that video, LOL, I think we have that topic, but I'm not really sure of that. Yes, card counting will be ineffective in online, simply because they have total control and maybe knows the outcome way ahead, that's why the dealer in the video, need to switch the cards so that the gambler will not win in this case.

Perhaps the myth of the movie "21", (believed me I watch it in Netflix just a couple of days ago), is still in the mind of the gamblers and think they can beat the system. It's not that easy and the house will not let you do that. As the saying goes "not in my house".

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Quote from: Jating on October 13, 2020, 07:06:18 AM

How easy it was to cheat here. I am pretty sure very few people will notice it and those who will notice it, they will not have enough proof to prove it too since no one is keeping their screencast software on while they are playing online.

Considering this example one thing we can say: The dealer knows the order of the cards.

Here is another thing to notice or to know.

Is this a camera or something that is displaying the card before putting it on the deck? How would we know that they are not using it against the customers?
-

FontSeli

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I do not know what the situation is with counting cards in online casinos. However, in large casinos in my country, there are special people whose job is to determine whether a player counts cards when playing blackjack. If they decide that you are counting, you will simply be banned from playing at this casino.
Also, casinos in my country have a common database of undesirable persons. And if you are banned from entering one casino, you can be sure that others will do the same.

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Quote from: Lorence.xD on October 13, 2020, 12:20:57 AM

In my opinion, card counting is applicable to online and physical casinos. I think iit works better in online casinos because there is nothing the house can do. There are other solutions and the solutions above are applicable mostly in physical casinos.

You are very much wrong I have not seen one blackjack players here that take down a blackjack site because he ius using a card counting method to beat the house, because they have a counter to this which is the continuous shuffle machines.

Quote

These perpetual shufflers make it almost impossible for card counters

imstillthebest

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Quote from: Debonaire217 on October 13, 2020, 11:02:26 AM

If you watched the movie about card counting, if I am not mistaken, its title is 21, it discusses about card counting in Blackjack. In fact, it is not easy, as it requires talent and good photographic memory to memorize the entire deck. In the movie, they even memorize a phrases to make sure that they could talk and give signs without literally telling one another the status of the game. Most of the time, card counting is effective in teams, but in the end, they are always getting caught by the casino and getting punished. It just means that there's no need for us to card count, blackjack is already an easy game. Cheating will just result for us to put ourlives in danger.

i didnt knew that bj can also be a team play , i know theres a multiplayer because i have played this before but the other players were not your allies and its not allowed to do team work to beat the other players but if you and your friend can do it secretly no one will know .

who is getting caught all the time ? the characters on the movie or the real gamblers that do this ? because a pro card counter wont easily get caught out and he wont allow this to happen .

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Quote from: robelneo on October 13, 2020, 10:26:07 AM

Software maker of Blackjack pretty much now about this card counting tricks works so they have created this

Quote

continuous shuffle machines, they will have the dealer shuffle in the middle of the shoe.

so card counting online will never works and you will have to rely on your luck and other skills to win but never in card counting, I think that's fair for blackjack operator to survive and for players so they will not go for card counting.

Operators and casino owners needs to find ways to avoid them risking their bankroll! if they will allow this continuously it will surely sucked everything and will bring them down.

This been studied carefully and the solutions that they've got really battled correctly to someone who have a good skills in card counting, gamblers are not getting any advantage from this skills, more on busting if they will try using it.

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If you watched the movie about card counting, if I am not mistaken, its title is 21, it discusses about card counting in Blackjack. In fact, it is not easy, as it requires talent and good photographic memory to memorize the entire deck. In the movie, they even memorize a phrases to make sure that they could talk and give signs without literally telling one another the status of the game. Most of the time, card counting is effective in teams, but in the end, they are always getting caught by the casino and getting punished. It just means that there's no need for us to card count, blackjack is already an easy game. Cheating will just result for us to put ourlives in danger.

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Quote from: iv4n on October 13, 2020, 08:23:20 AM

-snip-
Counting cards is just a strategy that can be used for playing various card games! It's not guaranteed that you will win all the time, it's just helps with predicting the next card and giving you a bit more chances
-snip-

Exactly.
Card Counting sounds quite simple, but it is definitely not a profit guarantee, but only helps to increase your own chances of winning (and respectively lowers the house edge).
But especially as a single player this is a very big hurdle. Some of you may know the well-known MIT Blackjack team. From this team comes the following statement:

Quote

To make money at blackjack as a solo player you need to basically make it your full-time job to overcome the variance. You can easily be negative in the first 500 hours.
Source

I don't know how many of us can take a situation where you are at a loss in the first 500 hours of gaming.
The already mentioned factor, that casinos are very strict against card counting and - especially in offline casinos - the players are put under lifelong bans, of course contributes to this.

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Casino already developed a defense mechanism to counter this card counting and I believe you are not aware on it because you start this discussion without considering it. There's a thing called CSM (continuous shuffling machine) and it destroys the card counting method. Most of pro blackjack player claiming that it didn't affect card counts was lying. They are just claiming because they are selling there tutorial online so that gamblers will still interested to purchase there online course but in reality card counting is useless anymore on most casino. You are lucky if you find one that didn't used that.

robelneo

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Software maker of Blackjack pretty much now about this card counting tricks works so they have created this

Quote

continuous shuffle machines, they will have the dealer shuffle in the middle of the shoe.

so card counting online will never works and you will have to rely on your luck and other skills to win but never in card counting, I think that's fair for blackjack operator to survive and for players so they will not go for card counting.

iv4n

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Quote from: Jating on October 13, 2020, 07:06:18 AM

Snip

I saw this video before! The guy was watching, and he noticed that move, but let's be honest how many times you move your eyes from the game? I bet I would miss this cheat!
Well "some" casinos will try to cheat their players, "some" players will try to cheat casino...it's like never ending game!

Counting cards is just a strategy that can be used for playing various card games! It's not guaranteed that you will win all the time, it's just helps with predicting the next card and giving you a bit more chances! With one deck it's possible, but more decks you add it will be harder for counting cards! One of the good questions is how many people can count cards!? There is a game for brainiacs, you have like a minute to see the cards and memorize the order of a shuffled deck! How many people can do that?! Of course, you can practice it and you can master it, but in the game you need to deal with pressure, and you don't have a chance to see the deck, you need to imagine it card by card! Later try to add more decks and you will realize that card counting is near to impossible!

Wexnident

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It's not applicable anymore in big casinos give it up. Casinos have countless cameras as well as personnel all over the casino, making it so that they can notice any odd movements or actions whenever players gamble. Not to mention that you've also stated about a few strategies they use to prevent count carding, such as using more decks than normal and the like. As for the online casinos, they can just simply use again more decks whenever putting out the cards, so that card counting would be a lot more difficult.

Online casinos have been a thing for a long time, and casino owners aren't as stupid as to leave out such a huge hole in their system that allows players to actually card count. It's rather difficult to card count nowadays, and tbh, the only way for a player to win against a casino is if they enter into negotiations, mostly putting the conditions to your advantage. You can look up some good examples of players making banks due to them negotiating to casinos about benefits that put them in an advantage.

Topic: Card Counting in Blackjack - page 4. (Read 887 times)