Do you guys remember having the coins in a PVC container before sending to grade?
That would be a good start for the ones of you that have the issue and sent the coins to grade yourselves.
Topic: Casascius hologram issue - page 3. (Read 2738 times)
If it's outside contamination like that I would expect it to have pitting marks under magnification. I'm not in a position to do that. Anyone else?
Just to be clear, you would expect the surface of the hologram to be more resistant to external factors and the difference between flaws noticeable on the surface and flaws not noticeable on the surface to have very different consequences when considering cause.
Just to be clear, you would expect the surface of the hologram to be more resistant to external factors and the difference between flaws noticeable on the surface and flaws not noticeable on the surface to have very different consequences when considering cause.
PVC contamination could be a possibility, here's an NGC discussion on the topic: https://www.ngccoin.com/news/article/1445/coin-holders-contain-PVC/
Here's something from ANACS FAQ page:
Where some of the Casascius coins shipped in a PVC holder? I don't know because I never bought directly.
What if they were stored in there until they got to ANACS and eventually they developed the spots after "enslabment"?
Quote
What is PVC residue?
PVC residue is a surface contaminant that may be caused by storing a coin in a soft, pliable vinyl flip. The amount of time a coin needs to reside in a vinyl flip before the PVC film develops will vary significantly, depending on temperature, humidity, the age of the flip, and the type of coin. Under optimal conditions, PVC residue can begin to form in as little as two weeks. At ANACS, we only use Mylar flips. Mylar flips are free of all PVC.
The composition of a coin is a strong factor with the formation of PVC residue.
A gold or platinum coin will be the most resistant, a silver coin is next, and a copper or copper-nickel coin will be the most susceptible. Copper and copper-nickel coins are also highly susceptible to corrosion and/or spotting from excessive moisture and high emperatures. Due to this, collectors need to be extra careful with their choices of storage materials for these coins.
During the manufacturing process for soft vinyl flips, an agent is added to increase pliability. The main reason for this is to allow the flips to be reused without breaking or tearing. This softening agent will migrate out of the plastic over time, and becomes the surface film that is called “PVC Residue.” As this film continues to degrade, it eventually turns into a mild acid, and begins to attack the surface of the coin. Until the film is removed from the coin, it is usually not possible to tell if the coin has been damaged. Additionally, this chemical reaction can continue even if the coin is sealed in an inert plastic holder. This is why ANACS does not encapsulate coins with active PVC contamination.
Recognizing PVC residue is not always easy. When the residue begins to form, it often appears as light milky spots on the coin. PVC residue also appears as streaks or a light haze, and ranges from nearly white to dark green or gray. If the coin has enough contamination, and your sense of smell is good, you will detect an odor that imitates the smell of a new plastic shower curtain.
PVC residue is a surface contaminant that may be caused by storing a coin in a soft, pliable vinyl flip. The amount of time a coin needs to reside in a vinyl flip before the PVC film develops will vary significantly, depending on temperature, humidity, the age of the flip, and the type of coin. Under optimal conditions, PVC residue can begin to form in as little as two weeks. At ANACS, we only use Mylar flips. Mylar flips are free of all PVC.
The composition of a coin is a strong factor with the formation of PVC residue.
A gold or platinum coin will be the most resistant, a silver coin is next, and a copper or copper-nickel coin will be the most susceptible. Copper and copper-nickel coins are also highly susceptible to corrosion and/or spotting from excessive moisture and high emperatures. Due to this, collectors need to be extra careful with their choices of storage materials for these coins.
During the manufacturing process for soft vinyl flips, an agent is added to increase pliability. The main reason for this is to allow the flips to be reused without breaking or tearing. This softening agent will migrate out of the plastic over time, and becomes the surface film that is called “PVC Residue.” As this film continues to degrade, it eventually turns into a mild acid, and begins to attack the surface of the coin. Until the film is removed from the coin, it is usually not possible to tell if the coin has been damaged. Additionally, this chemical reaction can continue even if the coin is sealed in an inert plastic holder. This is why ANACS does not encapsulate coins with active PVC contamination.
Recognizing PVC residue is not always easy. When the residue begins to form, it often appears as light milky spots on the coin. PVC residue also appears as streaks or a light haze, and ranges from nearly white to dark green or gray. If the coin has enough contamination, and your sense of smell is good, you will detect an odor that imitates the smell of a new plastic shower curtain.
Where some of the Casascius coins shipped in a PVC holder? I don't know because I never bought directly.
What if they were stored in there until they got to ANACS and eventually they developed the spots after "enslabment"?
If they are sealed at ANACS when slabbed, I wonder if they use some binding agent/glue to seal the slab under heat... That could cause some vapors inside that could have settled on the hologram and overtime chemicals reacted with material holo is made from...
It should be easy for ANACS to look into this...
It should be easy for ANACS to look into this...
I see some of the ANACS slabs have some sort of residue around the ring, thought it was glue or something but not sure how they are put together.
So we need a name for this...
Spotty Silvers?
So we need a name for this...
Spotty Silvers?
Interesting info here.
http://www.anacs.com/contentPages/FAQServices.aspx?AspxAutoDetectCookieSupport=1
Quote from: ANACS
Does ANACS make the plastic holders or do you have a company that does this for you?
All of the components for the new ANACS holder and the classic ANACS holder are manufactured for us. For security and proprietary reasons we do not release the names of these companies. One thing we definitely can tell you is that all components of the holder—the plastic, the label, the ink and the adhesives—have all been rigorously tested and are completely safe for your coins.
I wonder if it is somehow related to the ring melting process. I've only seen this on coins with ring melts.
Good point, I suppose that could be possible if the ring melting involves any significant/nonuniform heat transfer..
I could see it being heat related or maybe how Mike held the coins in position during the melting process. We'd need more info on that process and the equipment used.
So about your coin... I expect the price will be marked down dramatically because of all the imperfections in the hologram, right dazed?
Or is it an "error" that dramatically INCREASES the price?
HAHA! damnit
I see some of the ANACS slabs have some sort of residue around the ring, thought it was glue or something but not sure how they are put together.
So we need a name for this...
Spotty Silvers?
So we need a name for this...
Spotty Silvers?
If they are sealed at ANACS when slabbed, I wonder if they use some binding agent/glue to seal the slab under heat... That could cause some vapors inside that could have settled on the hologram and overtime chemicals reacted with material holo is made from...
It should be easy for ANACS to look into this...
It should be easy for ANACS to look into this...
I wonder if it is somehow related to the ring melting process. I've only seen this on coins with ring melts.
Good point, I suppose that could be possible if the ring melting involves any significant/nonuniform heat transfer..
I could see it being heat related or maybe how Mike held the coins in position during the melting process. We'd need more info on that process and the equipment used.
So about your coin... I expect the price will be marked down dramatically because of all the imperfections in the hologram, right dazed?
Or is it an "error" that dramatically INCREASES the price?
I wonder if it is somehow related to the ring melting process. I've only seen this on coins with ring melts.
Good point, I suppose that could be possible if the ring melting involves any significant/nonuniform heat transfer..
I could see it being heat related or maybe how Mike held the coins in position during the melting process. We'd need more info on that process and the equipment used.
So about your coin... I expect the price will be marked down dramatically because of all the imperfections in the hologram, right dazed?
I wonder if it is somehow related to the ring melting process. I've only seen this on coins with ring melts.
Good point, I suppose that could be possible if the ring melting involves any significant/nonuniform heat transfer..
I wonder if it is somehow related to the ring melting process. I've only seen this on coins with ring melts.
So I checked all my Cas coins for this effect and found one (luckily only one?). A gold single, and it seems to have the "spots" pretty bad.
Notice the issue appears to form around the perimeter of the private key indentation. I suspect some kind of reaction with the holo adhesive... drying and stretching the holo in a way to make little micro-tears, or worse somehow dissolving it?
I might suspect contamination from ANACS or the slab only if the effect was more uniform. Very bizarre regardless.
Here's some close-ups. Anyone wanna buy it?
Notice the issue appears to form around the perimeter of the private key indentation. I suspect some kind of reaction with the holo adhesive... drying and stretching the holo in a way to make little micro-tears, or worse somehow dissolving it?
I might suspect contamination from ANACS or the slab only if the effect was more uniform. Very bizarre regardless.
Here's some close-ups. Anyone wanna buy it?
ANACS pop reports just state what they have graded. You can only use them as the maximum number. Big shortfall
I have a 69 error coin. The slab was scratched. So I got them to reslab it. They gave it a new reference number. So the pop report says there are 2, wheresas its the same coin twice. ANACS wont amend the pop report. I have asked them. Luckily I had imaging done on both, so can prove this ...
So even when they do the reslabbing, the pop reprt is inaccurate, let alone if anyone cracks themselves and resubmits
I have a 69 error coin. The slab was scratched. So I got them to reslab it. They gave it a new reference number. So the pop report says there are 2, wheresas its the same coin twice. ANACS wont amend the pop report. I have asked them. Luckily I had imaging done on both, so can prove this ...
So even when they do the reslabbing, the pop reprt is inaccurate, let alone if anyone cracks themselves and resubmits
Good to know, thanks for clarifying.
ANACS pop reports just state what they have graded. You can only use them as the maximum number. Big shortfall
I have a 69 error coin. The slab was scratched. So I got them to reslab it. They gave it a new reference number. So the pop report says there are 2, wheresas its the same coin twice. ANACS wont amend the pop report. I have asked them. Luckily I had imaging done on both, so can prove this ...
So even when they do the reslabbing, the pop reprt is inaccurate, let alone if anyone cracks themselves and resubmits
I have a 69 error coin. The slab was scratched. So I got them to reslab it. They gave it a new reference number. So the pop report says there are 2, wheresas its the same coin twice. ANACS wont amend the pop report. I have asked them. Luckily I had imaging done on both, so can prove this ...
So even when they do the reslabbing, the pop reprt is inaccurate, let alone if anyone cracks themselves and resubmits
Thanks for the explanation monkeynuts and Blazed, not that I'm going to crack any slabs right now, but it could be useful one day LOL
So when you crack a ANACS slab which is numbered and registered on the site and makes up the population of a certain coin, that coin will still be on their site as graded even if outside its slab.
Does that mean that the population of them coins is not realistic?
I say this because in some cases certain coins are more valuable and sold at a premium because there's only 10 MS70 or 69, etc...
Or maybe there's 100 x MS 65.
What do you guys think?
So when you crack a ANACS slab which is numbered and registered on the site and makes up the population of a certain coin, that coin will still be on their site as graded even if outside its slab.
Does that mean that the population of them coins is not realistic?
I say this because in some cases certain coins are more valuable and sold at a premium because there's only 10 MS70 or 69, etc...
Or maybe there's 100 x MS 65.
What do you guys think?
Cracking slabs is really easy... I have cracked 50+ and never had an issue. Just clip the bottom to corners off and use a flathead screwdriver to pry the slab open. Takes me roughly 30 seconds per slab.
Edit: here is a photo album of how I do it -> http://imgur.com/a/5AcTy (imgur screwed up the order)
Check out this batch..lol
Edit: here is a photo album of how I do it -> http://imgur.com/a/5AcTy (imgur screwed up the order)
Check out this batch..lol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4pWpU3_qNw
Anyone fancy having a go at doing a redeemed Casascius coin ring .... ?
http://changeyoucanwear.net/product-category/non-silver-coin-rings/
Anyone fancy having a go at doing a redeemed Casascius coin ring .... ?
http://changeyoucanwear.net/product-category/non-silver-coin-rings/
That would be cool. I could maybe see sacrificing a peeled 5 BTC coin for this...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4pWpU3_qNw
Anyone fancy having a go at doing a redeemed Casascius coin ring .... ?
http://changeyoucanwear.net/product-category/non-silver-coin-rings/
Anyone fancy having a go at doing a redeemed Casascius coin ring .... ?
http://changeyoucanwear.net/product-category/non-silver-coin-rings/
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