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Topic: Cast Your Vote for your favourite Physical Bitcoin Designs – Ends 18th November (Read 21604 times)

legendary
Activity: 3178
Merit: 1348
I feel sorry for all the members that lost their time due to this.
This is however, the reason I did not participate in the second contest.
(Mostly because it was a battle of votes, not talent)

Mind you though, I did receive the small prize from the first one.

MrBau, I am sorry you did not get your prize.
You really deserved it - which is why I voted for you on the first one.


The way he ran the competitions showed quite a few flaws in the operating of his business. I for one lost out on both the unpaid bounty from this competition as well as losing out on personal funds that were used to purchase his coins which were never delivered.

hero member
Activity: 1582
Merit: 502
I feel sorry for all the members that lost their time due to this.
This is however, the reason I did not participate in the second contest.
(Mostly because it was a battle of votes, not talent)

Mind you though, I did receive the small prize from the first one.

MrBau, I am sorry you did not get your prize.
You really deserved it - which is why I voted for you on the first one.
legendary
Activity: 2492
Merit: 1473
LEALANA Bitcoin Grim Reaper
https://litecointalk.org/index.php?topic=20417.msg263397#msg263397

UPDATE ON COINOGRAPHIC LEGAL PROCEEDINGS BY SAIGONED:

Update:

Claim History

Your claim was issued on 16/02/2015
You submitted a judgment against Mr Mark Hamilton on 10/03/2015 at 03:08:25
Your judgment against Mr Mark Hamilton was issued on 11/03/2015 at 19:19:12
You can issue a Warrant of Execution against Mr Mark Hamilton on 14/04/2015 at 14.00.00. Grin

I will be issuing a warrant of execution this week - that will enable baliffs to enter his home, a County Court Judgement will also be applied against his credit rating.

I will be reporting this as fraud to the police once the court procedures are completed. I have evidence that our funds were not spent on manufacturing and business costs, rather Mark purchased thousands and thousands of dollars worth of Litecoin Gear shares in Oct/Nov/Dec and obviously we know what happened there. I have details of all of these transactions:)

So the funds were misappropriated, if you wish to be involved in criminal charges against Mark - please PM me. Fraud has been committed and I now have evidence.
legendary
Activity: 3178
Merit: 1348
He owes a heck of a lot not including the prizes and bounties he promised.
He's run off and it's going to be hard getting him to pay up. I suggest you log onto litecointalk where we're trying to build a case against him.
sr. member
Activity: 490
Merit: 250
Is there not a way to combine forces and sue Coinographic, I'm not a lawyer so I don't know if we stand a chance.
But this behaviour shouldn't be taken lightly.
He owes me 2,75 BTC, for the competition.


Well I'm in, He owes me a bit more than 20 BTC
hero member
Activity: 504
Merit: 500
Coinographic also lost its main investor at the end of November 2013.  We have tried hard to secure additional finance to keep the company alive but have failed in our attempts.

If your situation looked so dire at the end of November, why were you still trying to get preorders for not yet created coins?  Your post history shows you were taking orders on the site and here up through last month, and made no attempt to be forthright about the situation.  And if you couldn't make the coins from the last design contest, why hold another one?  Then go on saying "this will be delt with, give us some more time" etc.

Theres no way you didn't know you weren't going to be able to pay the contest bounty, or fill all the existing preorders.

You can make all the excuses you want, but that wont change the fact you acted very questionably while knowing things were going down the drain.
hero member
Activity: 840
Merit: 1000
Tell me, Mr. Professor, how to use an escrow in a competition like this? I've never lost money, but I lost time. I guess its the same
That's easy. Let the creator of the competition put the reward in escrow. That way you can still get paid even if he runs. If the creator of a competition doesn't want to do that, well, stay away.
agree, there are tons of new way that scammer comes up with everyday now, it is best to always use escrow even if you are dealing with some reputable member or party, be safe rather than be sorry  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
legendary
Activity: 1092
Merit: 1000
Is there not a way to combine forces and sue Coinographic, I'm not a lawyer so I don't know if we stand a chance.
But this behaviour shouldn't be taken lightly.
He owes me 2,75 BTC, for the competition.
legendary
Activity: 2492
Merit: 1473
LEALANA Bitcoin Grim Reaper

https://litecointalk.org/index.php?topic=20417.msg253462#msg253462

1. No I don’t expect our customers to pay to wind up our business.  I simply stated that neither the company nor I could afford to do it.  The option is available should anyone wish to wind up the company

2. The 45 bull, 29 chicken and 38 LA coins that we did have in stock have now been retained and collected by the coin manufacture for outstanding invoices.   This stock was not sold and Charles Lee DID NOT buy them nor did anyone else.  We have no silver coins.

3. We had molds and dies made for all of our upcoming collection, including a prototype for the 5 BTC coin and prototype boxes for all coins.  In addition we paid for and ordered the holograms for the 5 BTC and 2btc coins.  We also paid for a surplus stock of boxes for our 25LTC and 10 LTC coins.  We also have 50 boxes for each of the 5BTC and 2 BTC coins.

4. I did not forget any of the conversations I had on the phone and I am glad you recorded them all.  At the time we were talking I had every single intention of filling all orders.  I tried all possibilities to raise additional finance to fund the company and fill all obligations ( I can also prove every avenue that was explored).  All possibilities failed.  I have all invoices and receipts for everything that has been paid.  When this is presented to the court it will account for 100% of the monies received.

5. The designer received 1000’s of euros in payment from us.  It was only the last coins he did not receive payment from us which is a total of 1500 euro. All payments made to the designer can also be proved.

7. Neither of my offices were virtual, they were both physical offices and I can also prove that we occupied those offices. All my evidence will be presented to the court when required.

8. Greg was an investor in the company.  His circumstances changed and he was no longer able to put money in to the company. Greg has not been paid back a penny and has received no money form company funds what so ever.  Delia used to work for us but we had to let her go as we could not afford her wages

9. We have never received any payment in cash, only digital currency

I have tried my best to answer as many questions as possible but it seems people have made up their mind.  Anything else will be presented in court when requested.  I will no longer post here

Is that why you keep avoiding answering the question about funding amounts paid to you for coins purchased that you had in stock that you never shipped?

You are a sorry excuse for a human being by taking people's money, making countless promises, now running away like a coward and not paying a single customer back.

Utterly pathetic.
sr. member
Activity: 490
Merit: 250
Tell me, Mr. Professor, how to use an escrow in a competition like this? I've never lost money, but I lost time. I guess its the same
That's easy. Let the creator of the competition put the reward in escrow. That way you can still get paid even if he runs. If the creator of a competition doesn't want to do that, well, stay away.
He couldn't do that, It stated that in competition, the reward was the minted coin + the value funded on hologram. Well they could escrow the full prize but we were in no position to demand, they were very jumpy, and even the competitions were not planned well.

The fact in the end that even us as designers got screwed not just people who bought and even those who already have the minted coins the no one will give even 2 penny's for the coin beside the funded on hologram with all the fuss around Coinographic.
legendary
Activity: 2492
Merit: 1473
LEALANA Bitcoin Grim Reaper
Here is another place where I suggested using escrow:

Do you accept escrow for the auction?

Curious how escrow would work if the coin is special ordered for gold and it will take at least sometime in Jan before its ready.  Will they order the coin without receiving funds to pay for the special order?  Coinographic wont see their money for at least a month, using escrow.

Well, with the problems they just had, I would feel much more confortable with escrow.

If I were to bid on this coin I would require escrow.
legendary
Activity: 2492
Merit: 1473
LEALANA Bitcoin Grim Reaper
Here is one of the earlier posts I made concerning Coinographic where I made a strong suggestion that contest funds/prizes be put into escrow before the contest starts:

LINK: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.7829616

Quote
Quote from: smoothie on July 14, 2014, 12:34:08 AM
I would like to suggest the following given past bounties that were never paid by previous contests (i.e. Coinhoarder's Bitcoin design contest):

Send the 6 Bitcoins to an escrow so entrants are assured they (the winners) will receive the prize

I believe you have sent bounty monies to moderators on the Litecointalk forum for your previous contests. You should do the same here. Use an escrow person like say user/moderator Saltyspitoon who (last time I checked) did not charge any escrow fees.

Good luck to all of the entrants!



Quote from: Coinographic on July 14, 2014, 12:55:01 AM
We are more then happy to send the coins into escrow if the community feel its necessary.  It does create a small problem for us though...  

The first place prize is for a fully loaded coin and not the BTC directly.  If we sent the 5 BTC into escrow then it is not where it should be (on the coin).  We as a company feel that we have already done more then enough to establish our trust.  We have paid 100's of Litecoin in bounty (as you know) for our many contests on Litecointalk.  We have many people within the community who will also vouch for us.  We have always paid every single bounty or service provider we have ever used.

That being said if the community would prefer the BTC in escrow, then it is no problem for us.  I guess the 5btc could be sent to the coin address once it is received by the winner.  From our point of view as long as we can verify the 5 BTC is put onto the verified assembled coin then there would be no issue for us.

We are genuine registered company in the UK with a fixed office address.  We would also be more then willing to meet any bitcointalk member at our offices for any verification the community feel is necessary.  We are in this business for the long term and have no interest in ruining our reputation by not paying a competition bounty.  We have already invested a huge amount of money into the company - Thank you


   
Re: 6 Bitcoins & 2 Ounces of fine Gold in Bounty – Submission Deadline 31st August
QUOTE FROM SMOOTHIE July 14, 2014, 01:03:17 AM
The coin funding can easily be done by either the escrowing party or they can return the funds to you for you to personally fund the coin. There shouldn't be a problem on that front. If escrow ends up being used this should be part of the terms of them holding the bounty (where the coins will end up ultimately).

People need to be more cautious with doing deals on this forum.
copper member
Activity: 3948
Merit: 2201
Verified awesomeness ✔
Tell me, Mr. Professor, how to use an escrow in a competition like this? I've never lost money, but I lost time. I guess its the same
That's easy. Let the creator of the competition put the reward in escrow. That way you can still get paid even if he runs. If the creator of a competition doesn't want to do that, well, stay away.
member
Activity: 77
Merit: 10
I don't think he had any intention on paying the designers, probably just click-bait to keep his threads propped up. Feel sorry for the people who have 'bought' coins from Coinographic.
sr. member
Activity: 344
Merit: 250
It is a pity that crypto is full with unfulfilled promises. I have not received a total of about 3.5 BTC in various competitions and services that I have met.  Angry
This has nothing to do with crypto, but with the people you deal with and your own stupidity. They don't use escrow? Avoid them like hell. People like this can be found everywhere, no matter where you are or what you do.

   Tell me, Mr. Professor, how to use an escrow in a competition like this? I've never lost money, but I lost time. I guess its the same
copper member
Activity: 3948
Merit: 2201
Verified awesomeness ✔
It is a pity that crypto is chicken with unfulfilled promises. I have not received a total of about 3.5 BTC in various competitions and services that I have met.  Angry
This has nothing to do with crypto, but with the people you deal with and your own stupidity. They don't use escrow? Avoid them like hell. People like this can be found everywhere, no matter where you are or what you do.
sr. member
Activity: 344
Merit: 250
It is a pity that crypto is full with unfulfilled promises. I have not received a total of about 3.5 BTC in various competitions and services that I have met.  Angry
legendary
Activity: 2492
Merit: 1473
LEALANA Bitcoin Grim Reaper
LINK: https://litecointalk.org/index.php?topic=20417.msg253317#msg253317


Reposting from Litecointalk.org


I wanted to post to address a couple of the issues raised and try my best to answer them;

1. We have not appointed a liquidator for the simple reason we cannot afford one.  We have posted a link so that anyone can request a wind-up order for our company. At that point a liquidator will be appointed. We have no liquidator information to post because there isn’t one as yet.


No liquidator exists because originally you put on a facade to make people think you were actually going to work with them on order refunds, coin FUNDING, and preorder refunds. Yes people should sooo take your word as truth.  Roll Eyes

2. We do have some stock but not as many as people think.  All we have in our hands are 1ltc coins.  The silver coins are being retained by the coin manufacture.  The coins we are holding will be given to a liquidator should one be appointed.  We also have a lot of boxes, holograms & proto-type coins as assets.

You supposedly made it appear on your website that you had hundreds of 25 LTC bull coins, hundreds of 10 LTC LA coins, and hundreds of 10 LTC chikun coins.

Talk about putting up an image to make you look like you are fully stocked when you really aren't.


3. We have shut everything down because we can no longer operate as a company and have exhausted all possibilities of trying to raise capital to make things right.  Neither the company nor I own a single Bitcoin or Litecoin.

Yeah so you took people's money for physical coins you SUPPOSEDLY have, SUPPOSEDLY could fund, and can't refund that money/BTC/LTC?

You are so full of crap.

4. Since we announced our problems we have not sold a single coin, we did not accept any orders that we knew we were not going to be able to fill.  

Yeah yeah sure sure. I'm sure you were not funding coins back in October because you "knew" you could fulfill all outstanding orders. Please stop with the BS.

5. Any monies received for pre-orders of the bitcoin collection were invested into the company and the production of those coins.  We paid for molds, dies, prototypes, boxes, holograms, competitions, designs, website, advertising, hosting, office costs, and internet as well as many other associated costs.  I personally invested much more of my own personal money into this project then was ever received in orders.  

Blah blah blah...more lies. Even if that is true why would you invest money into a project you only had partial funds for? That makes no sense.

Why were preorder funds used to pay for office costs, internet and other associated costs as well as website? I don't see how they are related.

I'm sure your preorder customers did not know you would use the funds to fund your BUSINESS costs and not your physical bitcoin project costs.


6. Support for our product was very low since the company started.  We have had no more then 30-40 customers since the company started last April.

Stop blaming your customer base as the reason your company went under. And stop blaming the price of Bitcoin/Litecoin for your failures.

7. We never kept any private key information.  Redeem your coins if you wish to or can’t trust that fact.

Yes as if people should believe you given all of your previous lies up until this point.  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes

8. No fraud has taken place here.  Every penny received can be accounted for in costs.  We have all the paperwork and details for everything.  This is simply a case of a company running out of money and not selling enough products.

Once again if you werent selling enough products and did not have enough to produce the Bitcoin collection why did you try to keep up the facade that your company could afford to finish those coins and orders of other coins that you did not deliver/fund? Like I said, you sir are full of BS.

Yeah if you did not have enough funds to produce your bitcoin collection, why collect preorders?

Were you hoping your customer base would completely fund your projects? Like BFL?


9. I personally have no money.  My other business has also gone bust at the same time. I am struggling to put food on the table for my children.  You can DOX me (my information freely available on the net), sue me or visit my house.  It doesn’t change the fact that there is no money. I don’t own a house or any other assets personally.  If there was a way I could have sorted this out from my own money, I would have. I had/have no interest in ripping anyone off; I simply do not have any options open to me to resolve this.  Closing the company was my last point of action.

You say you have no money yet you claimed to have the ability to make people whole (at least somewhat). What was that form for if not to delay for more time?

Yeah sure your other business went bust at the same time. How convenient.

Now you are going to play the "my family doesn't have food" card? Seriously you are taking this pretty far.

10. We are not hiding any Bitcoin or Litecoin.

Where have we heard that one again???  Roll Eyes Roll Eyes Roll Eyes
hero member
Activity: 772
Merit: 500
That`s what risk is all about, we tend to invest on something we believe will have an impact in the long run.
hero member
Activity: 504
Merit: 500
this is whats wrong with btc, no accountability whatsoever.  the more that people get screwed over, the less likely they are to continue using cryptocurrency in general, in my opinion.  This is a problem for most people, absolutely no consumer protection, and very few companies that are legitimately accountable or even competent to run a business.
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