Author

Topic: CCminer(SP-MOD) Modded NVIDIA Maxwell / Pascal kernels. - page 708. (Read 2347641 times)

sp_
legendary
Activity: 2954
Merit: 1087
Team Black developer
Pools can be picky sometimes, quick tests showed me that xvc gives reliable results on some major pools.

xvc@1466 -i 30 #5
970 ~3170
980 ~3920

xvc@1466 -i 30 #6
970 ~3260
980 ~4030

I think release #3 did 3300@1466. So revert to #3 on the 970.
legendary
Activity: 1400
Merit: 1050
That's what happens when you copy-paste code you dont understand for over a year from algo to algo Mr. "3lit3".

I released decred #4 opensource. My work is original,real and fast.

Yet again, by the time you fixed your binaries and brought to your buyers a fixed product, this code was already uploaded in my github fixed, since Feb of this year.
And it's been already a week since the pallas comit on the open-sourced repo.

I didn't know you had A repo. I don't give a fuck. The Pallas commit is not giving me any improvement on the 750ti on windows. (less than 1%)
Asus strix 1280Mhz cuda 7.5 build windows 32bit:

1.7.5: 477MHASH
1.7.5 pallas: 478MHASH
Decred sp-mod #4(opensource): 550MHASH(15% faster than the pallas version)
Decred sp-mod #8: 590MHASH (23% faster than the pallas version



The reason it was not working in CUDA7.5 came a month later when you reported bigger hashrate in CUDA7.5 and I was trusting your results.

My results are real, but when people use crazy intensities like -i 29.6 my code had a bug. It was corrected quickly in release #5

You made me look into it and i found the flaw which was preventing CUDA7.5 to translate the source the same way CUDA6.5 did.
I remember that chrysophylax said both private decred miners were reporting almost the same results, with yours being slightly faster.
But mine was already 15% faster in CUDA6.5 version rather than CUDA7.5 which was reporting less than 1% boost.

My code is optimized for the 750ti, the 970 is not important since you don't use the 970 to mine decred, you mine etherum or something more profitable.


That said: From SP_VAPORMOD#1 to SP_VAPORMOD#3 you were selling vaporware.
And you just admitted that from SP_BROKENMOD#4 until, SP_MOD#8 you were selling broken code?  Cry Cry

I am not selling anything. People donate and they get access to private bins. My private kernals are always the fastest.


Stop trolling my thread newbie!..
he isn't a newbie, he wrote the fast whirlpoolx algo you did paste in your release.

I think we are several to call your copy and paste a scam... selling to someone a program where the only thing you change is the intensity, is a scam. There is no hard work. You are not fooling any one at that level.

member
Activity: 61
Merit: 10
I came here because you reported 30%, 15%, 8% increase in the open sourced vcash kernel.
Since nobody validated this increase and people were reporting that your hashrate is rather similar or slightly lower
i admit i got out of temper (my bad).
Especially when your argument about the boost was that you hardcoded a bigger intensity.

As i said above, I dont care where people invest their btcs.
I was here to find out if you were speaking the truth about the increase.
sp_
legendary
Activity: 2954
Merit: 1087
Team Black developer
If you wonder why quark is +62% and x11 is only up 18%, it's because x11 need some more work and donations...


I just did a comparison between my buyable private miner (0.1BTC) and the latest 1.7.5 release.
I have written 0-10% faster, but I should have written 17-74% faster

Sp-Mod #5 default intensities hashrates in MHASH/s. (980ti 1290 coreclock/1650 memclock)

nist5: 43.80 (+17%)
quark: 27.85 (+61,91%)
lyra2v2 16.10 (+16.6%)
x11:   12.85 (+18%)
x13:   10.27 (+19.97)
x15:    8.83 (+18.52 )
neoscrypt: 0.99 (+73.68%)

1.7.5: (32bit windows build cuda 7.5) default intensities in MHASH/s (980ti 1290 coreclock/1650 memclock)

nist5: 37.45
quark: 17.20
lyra2v2: 13.81
x11: 10.88
x13: 8.56
x15: 7.45
neoscrypt: 0.57

1.7.5: (32bit windows build cuda 6.5) (980ti 1290 coreclock/1650 memclock)

nist5: 38.93
quark: 17.5
lyra2v2: 13.18
x11: 10.95
x13: 8.88
x15: 7.7
neoscrypt: 0.71

If you call my hard work scam, then fuck off. All ccminer kernals have been optimized. It's alot more work than just changing the intensity parameter..
sp_
legendary
Activity: 2954
Merit: 1087
Team Black developer
That's what happens when you copy-paste code you dont understand for over a year from algo to algo Mr. "3lit3".

I released decred #4 opensource. My work is original,real and fast.

Yet again, by the time you fixed your binaries and brought to your buyers a fixed product, this code was already uploaded in my github fixed, since Feb of this year.
And it's been already a week since the pallas comit on the open-sourced repo.

I didn't know you had A repo. I don't give a fuck. The Pallas commit is not giving me any improvement on the 750ti on windows. (less than 1%)
Asus strix 1280Mhz cuda 7.5 build windows 32bit:

1.7.5: 477MHASH
1.7.5 pallas: 478MHASH
Decred sp-mod #4(opensource): 550MHASH(15% faster than the pallas version)
Decred sp-mod #8: 590MHASH (23% faster than the pallas version



The reason it was not working in CUDA7.5 came a month later when you reported bigger hashrate in CUDA7.5 and I was trusting your results.

My results are real, but when people use crazy intensities like -i 29.6 my code had a bug. It was corrected quickly in release #5

You made me look into it and i found the flaw which was preventing CUDA7.5 to translate the source the same way CUDA6.5 did.
I remember that chrysophylax said both private decred miners were reporting almost the same results, with yours being slightly faster.
But mine was already 15% faster in CUDA6.5 version rather than CUDA7.5 which was reporting less than 1% boost.

My code is optimized for the 750ti, the 970 is not important since you don't use the 970 to mine decred, you mine etherum or something more profitable.


That said: From SP_VAPORMOD#1 to SP_VAPORMOD#3 you were selling vaporware.
And you just admitted that from SP_BROKENMOD#4 until, SP_MOD#8 you were selling broken code?  Cry Cry

I am not selling anything. People donate and they get access to private bins. My private kernals are always the fastest.


Stop trolling my thread newbie!..
sp_
legendary
Activity: 2954
Merit: 1087
Team Black developer
I have decided to release the sourcecode for decred private #4.

https://github.com/sp-hash/ccminer/commit/3a726d90efd528ed386407bbd5b223583d80b378

You can test it on linux.

Use whole number  intensities  to get the correct hashrates o  the pool 28,29,30,31 (ie -i 29.6 will give higher rates in the miner, but not on the pool. Known overflow bug corrected in #5)

Download the latest 1.7.6 and copy and rename the decred_ok.cu to decred.cu into the algo256 folder. Then rebuild with cuda 7.5


Cheers


sp_
legendary
Activity: 2954
Merit: 1087
Team Black developer
I work hard to give you the fastest kernals. 0.1 btc is nothing. Decred is a simple algo with few lines of code. Many developers are working in private to reach the optimal speed. Because faster kernals is giving a bigger profit.
sr. member
Activity: 445
Merit: 255
In a unregolated market like this, these behaviours are simply called "greed". The amount of accusations are so heavy that replying with just 2 repeated sentencies (fastest.., fastest..) it's a passive admission of guilt. Too many in  this market donate for nonsense, especially when a donation it's not legally prosecutable. If it's prooven that some of the sp miners were more fast due a more aggressive intensity, being published like this it's simply called theft. I was interested in some of "his"works but the amount of greed, in his pm's, forced me to ignore his "kind and gelid" requests of a forced donation.

3 days later the same speed was released open source.. need we to add anything else? Don't donate without a reason guys, your money leads to other's guilt and greed (G&G 'tm :-) )

As the vastness of space, the emptyness of human nature.
legendary
Activity: 1470
Merit: 1114
This is getting out of hand. But let's remember how this all started, when SP went closed after
importing lots of open source improvements that were contributed in good faith by various developpers.

He has added some of his own improvements, but not enough, IMO, to justify what he is now charging
for his miners. Whether he is misrepresenting the work of others as his own, playing tricks to increase
performance, or it's just a little marketing hype is a matter between SP and the individuals involved.

I must be careful in my criticism as my project has primarilly been a copy/paste integration effort.
I'm not a young guy trying to learn, but an old fart trying to learn some new things.

Notwithstanding that cpuminer-opt is not a marketable product I would not consider charging users
for it giventhe level of original content. Furthermore I recognized that any original content I did add
would always remain open and free. I would also resent anyone forking my product and closing it

Furthermore his distribution of binary only packages derived from open source may be in violation
of the GPL.

I, for one, do not like SP's current strategy and have said so in the past, and choose not to support this
activity.

@SP My apologies for referring to you in the third person in your own thread, however my post was directed
openly to all developpers and users.
sp_
legendary
Activity: 2954
Merit: 1087
Team Black developer
@sp and @other private buyers for decred
what's the hashrate of sp_mod_decred #8 on 750ti?

With OC 680MHASH.
sp_
legendary
Activity: 2954
Merit: 1087
Team Black developer
Nice responses here today. My decred is the fastest. I have sendt the sourcecode out to trusted miners. The code is different than yours and faster. I don't have a broken hash. in #5 and up.
member
Activity: 130
Merit: 10
@sp and @other private buyers for decred

what's the hashrate of sp_mod_decred #8 on 750ti?
legendary
Activity: 1176
Merit: 1015

@antantti
Can you validate my kernel's hashrate on your machine too?
Some basic math makes me expect that you should see (1466/1453.3)*3.303 ~= 3.33Gh/s  (That's not the case for memory bounded algos.)


March version 3250 on 970, 4020 on 980, 1466 -i 30
Latest 3280 on 970, 4070 on 980, 1466 -i 30

My 970´s start hitting power limiter, that's why they don't go past 3300... So your version is a bit faster than sp´s on my machine.

sr. member
Activity: 445
Merit: 255
1. The difference between a Linux build and a windows builds can be as much as 5%.
so far, not on my algos. But for this one, credits go to tpruvot. He is the windows tech guy

2. A optimalization on the gtx 970, can be slower than on the 750ti.
You are right, but that will happen if you use architecture specific asm, just like the lop.b32 instructions i used to further optimize your already optimum keccak256 kernal.
You can check my github, run it on your machines, but i can't trust your results, whatever you'll claim. Sorry.

But the hashrate on the pool is lower because of a uint32_t overflow in the nonce per thread loop. I have corrected this in #8.
That's what happens when you copy-paste code you dont understand for over a year from algo to algo Mr. "3lit3".
Yet again, by the time you fixed your binaries and brought to your buyers a fixed product, this code was already uploaded in my github fixed, since Feb of this year.
And it's been already a week since the pallas comit on the open-sourced repo.


The reason it was not working in CUDA7.5 came a month later when you reported bigger hashrate in CUDA7.5 and I was trusting your results.

You made me look into it and i found the flaw which was preventing CUDA7.5 to translate the source the same way CUDA6.5 did.
I remember that chrysophylax said both private decred miners were reporting almost the same results, with yours being slightly faster.
But mine was already 15% faster in CUDA6.5 version rather than CUDA7.5 which was reporting less than 1% boost.

That said: From SP_VAPORMOD#1 to SP_VAPORMOD#3 you were selling vaporware.
And you just admitted that from SP_BROKENMOD#4 until, SP_MOD#8 you were selling broken code?  Cry Cry

3. I compare my builds to the cryptomining blog builds, and sometimes I build myself. (cuda 7.5 32 bit)
You do it wrong, but i wont charge you (the 3lit3) 0.4BTC to tell you how to measure the actual optimization of your code.

So, what you should do in your case?

At first you should set the hashrate of CUDA6.5 as the new bottom, or at least inform your buyers that it's optimum for CUDA7.5 builds but it still lacks some major performance from the open sourced CUDA6.5 implementation.
//This thing is called respect to the actual work of other devs, which work was brought in public for free, for the credits. Not for BTCs
You cant even claim that you missed my implementation, the code was open sourced, the binaries were available, even cryptomining blog wrote an article about that, and the same article was commented by you in this thread.
I dont see anything that could excuse you for this behavior since you claim to be an experienced developer "who built the fastest ccminer" (an 3lit3) and not just a kid who is just playing around, trying to learn.

Then, you have to find the best arguments, and the best toolkit for the comparison tests.
I could have used tpruvot's version in cuda6.5 (which was proven worse) just to claim a better throughput, but i didnt. Cuz that would be wrong in every aspect since his source works optimally in CUDA7.5.
I also compared the two versions passing the same arguments, e.g. using the same intensity. I didnt use tpruvot's defaults (-i 25 or 27) and pushed mine to it's limits (-i 31) without even trying tpruvot's kernel with -i 31.
That would lead me to falsified results, just like you were led to.
You can't disagree on the above because, an optimization is not just a higher intensity. With a higher intensity you can claim bigger throughput, but in no case you can claim faster code, because simply the code is the same.

The thing you did with intensity to claim a "15% faster than Provos Alexis kernal" was also a big time joke.
It is the end-users obligation to find the best intensity for their equipment, the dev can only RECOMMEND through the default intensities, cuz you know... variables in programming need to be initialized with a value.
If your buyers had run your code with your default intensity set at 31 on a gpu which was driving their screen, their system would freeze.
That thing you did with intensity was like taking an empty gas tank car, put some gasoline. Drive it and claim you are better than the X car company's engineers because you managed to get an infinite percentage of acceleration on their cars. You see my point?

How do you even claim to be "3lit3" and ask BTC if you cant figure this simple thing out.

Over 'n out

sp please stop scamming people and steal code from the real dev and report faster speed without even doing anything.
This is getting out of hand. You are basically selling as private opensource code...

If you don't want to work on new code rather than stealing people work, may-be it is time for you to leave...

And please review your linkedin profile (before someone comment on it): You did not invent anything.

Respect. I totally agree that this thing is getting out of hand. Keep on the great work guys

I've just tried the 1.5% fee miner for decred, gtx 970@1650GH/s @1342MHz with I ~ 28 (better to use 26, but I should make some more efficiency analysis)
legendary
Activity: 1797
Merit: 1028
I DRANK BEER LAST NIGHT--

Having earned the BitCoin to pay for it with my mining, I enjoyed an excellent Scotch Ale last night.  I woke up early today to read Alexis' post, and now am confused!  WHO indeed has the fastest miner!

My donations have gonee to sp_ and his rough-and-rugged enhanced coding.  Now, here is a newbie saying in fiery style that HIS code is the greatest?  Well, perhaps sp_ should just mod it so that the common miners like myself can put it to use, even while thoroughly hung-over.

Geez buleez, I am ready to go back to bed already.  As soon as I can figure out which private miner is the "all-in-one"  with Alexis' fixes, Epsylon3's smooth base code, all the algos, and _ 's assembly code enhancements, I'll plunk down another donation.  Not that I haven't donated to Pallas, Epsylon3, or a couple other true contributors.  Just get it right and tell me where it is.  And toss a bone to the noob, Alexis.  He deserves a few BTC for his contribution.

Back to bed.  My gear might finally ROI before the ETH and DECRED markets bottom out.  Adding another chunk of BTC to the coders might not be wasted.  DECRED is still my first choice for the 750ti because of the issues it has with ETH's DAG file.  Is somebody saying that VanillaCoin actually pays better?  Or what?       --scryptr

The noob you are talking about has 4 years of experience in CUDA, since the CP2.1 era.
Also, the noob you are talking about was from the first contributors to open source CudaMiner.
You see me here just because the idiot you trust, dared to say "15% faster than Provos Alexis kernal",
where, even after his 6th release, he's still actually slightly slower.
I wouldn't care less where you send your btcs.
If you like being scammed by an idiot, it's not my problem.

I dont even care if his performance is actually faster on the other kernels.
And at this point i dont trust anything he claims.
I Only know two things:
1. He has been slower than my decred implementation bragging that he's an 3lit3 who brought 30% speed increase, while in the same time he was using broken copy-pasted code from a 2011 bitcoin implementation
If Pallas didnt push a faster public release, the donators to SP_MOD private kernels would still be mining with a broken and slower code
2. His vcash ccminer private implementation is still slower even after his claims about 15% boost on the publicly released one

YOUR RATING IS NEWBIE--

And I am glad that you have good coding experience.  Just as long as sp_ can enhance your miner with assembly code, and make it faster, I am happy.

Now, as to whether the code is modded, or the code is original, or the code is "only an Intensity (-i) increase",  I don't care.  Sorry that you are so angry, I was just hoping others would donate for your code.  If you contribute Open Source, others can mod it, that is the idea idea behind Open Source.

Don't get your panties in a bunch.  I just want a faster, better mining software.  By the way, medical doctors can advertise these days, at least in the USA.  It is no longer considered an ethical violation to promote their medical services.  Honestly, sp_'s bragging is slightly 3l1t3st, and from the days of telophone-linked bulletin boards, Commodore 64's, Amiga coding, and "scrollers" (I hacked a few scrollers) when ANSI-taggers had flamewars online, but I guess you just want to be MORE 3l1t3.  Put a fiery ANSI artwork in your tagline, I guess you are 3l1t3 too.  It is not like you are selling medicine.

If the snake-oil kills the pain, it must be good!  Just as long as it works.  I need some.......       --scryptr
sr. member
Activity: 406
Merit: 250
he also scammed me 0.05 for a boost on cryptonight, that was lie because all he did was increasing the intensity, in fact i have the same hash as he claim with just an intensity increase lol
member
Activity: 61
Merit: 10
I DRANK BEER LAST NIGHT--

Having earned the BitCoin to pay for it with my mining, I enjoyed an excellent Scotch Ale last night.  I woke up early today to read Alexis' post, and now am confused!  WHO indeed has the fastest miner!

My donations have gonee to sp_ and his rough-and-rugged enhanced coding.  Now, here is a newbie saying in fiery style that HIS code is the greatest?  Well, perhaps sp_ should just mod it so that the common miners like myself can put it to use, even while thoroughly hung-over.

Geez buleez, I am ready to go back to bed already.  As soon as I can figure out which private miner is the "all-in-one"  with Alexis' fixes, Epsylon3's smooth base code, all the algos, and _ 's assembly code enhancements, I'll plunk down another donation.  Not that I haven't donated to Pallas, Epsylon3, or a couple other true contributors.  Just get it right and tell me where it is.  And toss a bone to the noob, Alexis.  He deserves a few BTC for his contribution.

Back to bed.  My gear might finally ROI before the ETH and DECRED markets bottom out.  Adding another chunk of BTC to the coders might not be wasted.  DECRED is still my first choice for the 750ti because of the issues it has with ETH's DAG file.  Is somebody saying that VanillaCoin actually pays better?  Or what?       --scryptr

The noob you are talking about has 4 years of experience in CUDA, since the CP2.1 era.
Also, the noob you are talking about was from the first contributors to open source CudaMiner.
You see me here just because the idiot you trust, dared to say "15% faster than Provos Alexis kernal",
where, even after his 6th release, he's still actually slightly slower.
I wouldn't care less where you send your btcs.
If you like being scammed by an idiot, it's not my problem.

I dont even care if his performance is actually faster on the other kernels.
And at this point i dont trust anything he claims.
I Only know two things:
1. He has been slower than my decred implementation bragging that he's an 3lit3 who brought 30% speed increase, while in the same time he was using broken copy-pasted code from a 2011 bitcoin implementation
If Pallas didnt push a faster public release, the donators to SP_MOD private kernels would still be mining with a broken and slower code
2. His vcash ccminer private implementation is still slower than the publicly released one even after his claims about 15% boost on it

That said. I wont push my latest +0.7% vcash commit on github. At least not before his vcash SP_MOD#7
legendary
Activity: 1797
Merit: 1028
I DRANK BEER LAST NIGHT--

Having earned the BitCoin to pay for it with my mining, I enjoyed an excellent Scotch Ale last night.  I woke up early today to read Alexis' post, and now am confused!  WHO indeed has the fastest miner!

My donations have gonee to sp_ and his rough-and-rugged enhanced coding.  Now, here is a newbie saying in fiery style that HIS code is the greatest?  Well, perhaps sp_ should just mod it so that the common miners like myself can put it to use, even while thoroughly hung-over.

Geez buleez, I am ready to go back to bed already.  As soon as I can figure out which private miner is the "all-in-one"  with Alexis' fixes, Epsylon3's smooth base code, all the algos, and sp_ 's assembly code enhancements, I'll plunk down another donation.  Not that I haven't donated to Pallas, Epsylon3, or a couple other true contributors.  Just get it right and tell me where it is.  And toss a bone to the noob, Alexis.  He deserves a few BTC for his contribution.

Back to bed.  My gear might finally ROI before the ETH and DECRED markets bottom out.  Adding another chunk of BTC to the coders might not be wasted.  DECRED is still my first choice for the 750ti because of the issues it has with ETH's DAG file.  Is somebody saying that VanillaCoin actually pays better?  Or what?       --scryptr
legendary
Activity: 1400
Merit: 1050
sp please stop scamming people and steal code from the real dev and report faster speed without even doing anything.
This is getting out of hand. You are basically selling as private opensource code...

If you don't want to work on new code rather than stealing people work, may-be it is time for you to leave...

And please review your linkedin profile (before someone comment on it): You did not invent anything.
member
Activity: 61
Merit: 10
1. The difference between a Linux build and a windows builds can be as much as 5%.
so far, not on my algos. But for this one, credits go to tpruvot. He is the windows tech guy

2. A optimalization on the gtx 970, can be slower than on the 750ti.
You are right, but that will happen if you use architecture specific asm, just like the lop.b32 instructions i used to further optimize your already optimum keccak256 kernal.
You can check my github, run it on your machines, but i can't trust your results, whatever you'll claim. Sorry.

But the hashrate on the pool is lower because of a uint32_t overflow in the nonce per thread loop. I have corrected this in #8.
That's what happens when you copy-paste code you dont understand for over a year from algo to algo Mr. "3lit3".
Yet again, by the time you fixed your binaries and brought to your buyers a fixed product, this code was already uploaded in my github fixed, since Feb of this year.
And it's been already a week since the pallas comit on the open-sourced repo.


The reason it was not working in CUDA7.5 came a month later when you reported bigger hashrate in CUDA7.5 and I was trusting your results.

You made me look into it and i found the flaw which was preventing CUDA7.5 to translate the source the same way CUDA6.5 did.
I remember that chrysophylax said both private decred miners were reporting almost the same results, with yours being slightly faster.
But mine was already 15% faster in CUDA6.5 version rather than CUDA7.5 which was reporting less than 1% boost.

That said: From SP_VAPORMOD#1 to SP_VAPORMOD#3 you were selling vaporware.
And you just admitted that from SP_BROKENMOD#4 until, SP_MOD#8 you were selling broken code?  Cry Cry

3. I compare my builds to the cryptomining blog builds, and sometimes I build myself. (cuda 7.5 32 bit)
You do it wrong, but i wont charge you (the 3lit3) 0.4BTC to tell you how to measure the actual optimization of your code.

So, what you should do in your case?

At first you should set the hashrate of CUDA6.5 as the new bottom, or at least inform your buyers that it's optimum for CUDA7.5 builds but it still lacks some major performance from the open sourced CUDA6.5 implementation.
//This thing is called respect to the actual work of other devs, which work was brought in public for free, for the credits. Not for BTCs
You cant even claim that you missed my implementation, the code was open sourced, the binaries were available, even cryptomining blog wrote an article about that, and the same article was commented by you in this thread.
I dont see anything that could excuse you for this behavior since you claim to be an experienced developer "who built the fastest ccminer" (an 3lit3) and not just a kid who is just playing around, trying to learn.

Then, you have to find the best arguments, and the best toolkit for the comparison tests.
I could have used tpruvot's version in cuda6.5 (which was proven worse) just to claim a better throughput, but i didnt. Cuz that would be wrong in every aspect since his source works optimally in CUDA7.5.
I also compared the two versions passing the same arguments, e.g. using the same intensity. I didnt use tpruvot's defaults (-i 25 or 27) and pushed mine to it's limits (-i 31) without even trying tpruvot's kernel with -i 31.
That would lead me to falsified results, just like you were led to.
You can't disagree on the above because, an optimization is not just a higher intensity. With a higher intensity you can claim bigger throughput, but in no case you can claim faster code, because simply the code is the same.

The thing you did with intensity to claim a "15% faster than Provos Alexis kernal" was also a big time joke.
It is the end-users obligation to find the best intensity for their equipment, the dev can only RECOMMEND through the default intensities, cuz you know... variables in programming need to be initialized with a value.
If your buyers had run your code with your default intensity set at 31 on a gpu which was driving their screen, their system would freeze.
That thing you did with intensity was like taking an empty gas tank car, put some gasoline. Drive it and claim you are better than the X car company's engineers because you managed to get an infinite percentage of acceleration on their cars. You see my point?

How do you even claim to be "3lit3" and ask BTC if you cant figure this simple thing out.


Over 'n out
Jump to: