It looks like ChangeNow.io is another website I'll never visit again. 11BTC is lots of money in any country and you simply don't have the right to play a judge. ChangeNow has written "Selective SCAM" all around it.
Hope nobody will ever send you this kind of money before reading this thread.
Topic: ChangeNow.io (Evercode Lab) - Scam. Illegally holding of 100 BCH (11 bitcoins). - page 15. (Read 34427 times)
September 12, 2018, 10:28:07 AM
September 12, 2018, 10:26:10 AM
Nobody is by any means required to send us their documents. However, is this case we might not be able to process their transaction. To give you an example: if an exchange, Bittrex, Kraken, Poloniex, whatever, decides to freeze someone's funds and ask them for info regarding the source of funds (this is a real case, by the way), the customer in question can refuse to provide any. In that case, said customer has to be aware that they're risking getting their funds blocked until they satisfy the exchange's requirements. You either play by the rules or find a different game.
We do totally agree with you here: the interface can be made more convenient. We'll be glad to improve the interface once we've gotten a confirmation from our legal team on whether we can do that without compromising the procedure's integrity.
By the way: the exchange amount is not the only thing that might trigger a KYC check. There is an entire set of criteria at play.
There's no doubt that we have to give our users more information, we'll do our best on that.
It's actually pretty sad that no one bothers to read ToS and PP. Don't you read loan agreements or mortgage contracts, for example? Crypto is real money, and our documents are present on the website for a reason, and we will try to encourage our clients to read them even more vigorously.
I would like to reiterate that the amount is not the main criterion. And it's not only about getting the site updated: adding a notification is easy. We need to solve a task, first and foremost: how do we add a notification on the site and still maintain the KYC procedure's integrity? It's clear that if we provide all the details on our KYCP, there will be people who will try to abuse the algorithm. We understand the inportance of the task, are working on it, and will keep the community updated. Thank you for your ideas.
Many thanks for the post and your clarifications. I hope you will implement some of those changes as soon as possible and I wish you success in your business.
Regarding the OP who has his funds frozen, it is about time you returned the funds to him using the same address you received them from. What confirmation are you waiting for and from who?
September 12, 2018, 10:08:53 AM
Quote
First of all I used a random proxy IP generator so you guys at changenow never find out my real IP address and location
Second, I went to etherscan and took an ethereum address at random
Third, I was trying to make a demo trade of 15 BTC to change in to Ethereum (not real coins but just a demo to see what happens next)
Fourth, there were no warnings about AML/KYC. This trade should never have been allowed to go through at all without ID verification because the amount is too high. You stated earlier that you have an automated system that flags up suspicious trades but you never made it known on your website what will happen to that trade after you receive the funds and if the sender refuses to send ID. You must inform the user which international law enforcement agencies you fall under because you are registered in Belize and claim to have offices in multiple jurisdictions including Russia and Europe.
Fifth, who will bother reading the TOS and privacy policy so highlight that key information on the trade page.
Finally, before the QR code was created there should have been an alert for the user to notify that ID would be required but even more than two months after changenow have kept the OPs funds they still have not added this to their system. What confirmation are you waiting for and from which international law enforcement agency?
How long will it take you to update you website to show the AML/KYC is mandatory when a customer tries to make a trade beyond a certain value?
Second, I went to etherscan and took an ethereum address at random
Third, I was trying to make a demo trade of 15 BTC to change in to Ethereum (not real coins but just a demo to see what happens next)
Fourth, there were no warnings about AML/KYC. This trade should never have been allowed to go through at all without ID verification because the amount is too high. You stated earlier that you have an automated system that flags up suspicious trades but you never made it known on your website what will happen to that trade after you receive the funds and if the sender refuses to send ID. You must inform the user which international law enforcement agencies you fall under because you are registered in Belize and claim to have offices in multiple jurisdictions including Russia and Europe.
Fifth, who will bother reading the TOS and privacy policy so highlight that key information on the trade page.
Finally, before the QR code was created there should have been an alert for the user to notify that ID would be required but even more than two months after changenow have kept the OPs funds they still have not added this to their system. What confirmation are you waiting for and from which international law enforcement agency?
How long will it take you to update you website to show the AML/KYC is mandatory when a customer tries to make a trade beyond a certain value?
Nobody is by any means required to send us their documents. However, is this case we might not be able to process their transaction. To give you an example: if an exchange, Bittrex, Kraken, Poloniex, whatever, decides to freeze someone's funds and ask them for info regarding the source of funds (this is a real case, by the way), the customer in question can refuse to provide any. In that case, said customer has to be aware that they're risking getting their funds blocked until they satisfy the exchange's requirements. You either play by the rules or find a different game.
We do totally agree with you here: the interface can be made more convenient. We'll be glad to improve the interface once we've gotten a confirmation from our legal team on whether we can do that without compromising the procedure's integrity.
By the way: the exchange amount is not the only thing that might trigger a KYC check. There is an entire set of criteria at play.
There's no doubt that we have to give our users more information, we'll do our best on that.
It's actually pretty sad that no one bothers to read ToS and PP. Don't you read loan agreements or mortgage contracts, for example? Crypto is real money, and our documents are present on the website for a reason, and we will try to encourage our clients to read them even more vigorously.
I would like to reiterate that the amount is not the main criterion. And it's not only about getting the site updated: adding a notification is easy. We need to solve a task, first and foremost: how do we add a notification on the site and still maintain the KYC procedure's integrity? It's clear that if we provide all the details on our KYCP, there will be people who will try to abuse the algorithm. We understand the inportance of the task, are working on it, and will keep the community updated. Thank you for your ideas.
September 12, 2018, 07:55:09 AM
First of all I used a random proxy IP generator so you guys at changenow never find out my real IP address and location
Second, I went to etherscan and took an ethereum address at random
Third, I was trying to make a demo trade of 15 BTC to change in to Ethereum (not real coins but just a demo to see what happens next)
Fourth, there were no warnings about AML/KYC. This trade should never have been allowed to go through at all without ID verification because the amount is too high. You stated earlier that you have an automated system that flags up suspicious trades but you never made it known on your website what will happen to that trade after you receive the funds and if the sender refuses to send ID. You must inform the user which international law enforcement agencies you fall under because you are registered in Belize and claim to have offices in multiple jurisdictions including Russia and Europe.
Fifth, who will bother reading the TOS and privacy policy so highlight that key information on the trade page.
Finally, before the QR code was created there should have been an alert for the user to notify that ID would be required but even more than two months after changenow have kept the OPs funds they still have not added this to their system. What confirmation are you waiting for and from which international law enforcement agency?
How long will it take you to update you website to show the AML/KYC is mandatory when a customer tries to make a trade beyond a certain value?
September 12, 2018, 07:39:55 AM
Our Amsterdam address is our postal address where you can direct any official claims you might have by mail.
So you're saying the company forwarding your mail there knows where you really are hiding? Or do they forward it to the nexts PO box?In no circumstances are we going to keep this user’s funds for ourselves.
How about you send it to a trusted escrow on this forum? September 12, 2018, 07:35:08 AM
As for the refund - we can return ni23457's funds only once we've confirmed, once and for all, that we have the right to return them and that it won't land us in any legal trouble. We don't want any problems for ourselves.
Well the OP will rightfully not send you his ID or send you substitute surrogate ID and never make a video call for verification. That leaves the ball in your court.
It has been two months since you have been holding on to his funds. How much longer will it take for you to find out from Interpol, Europol and the other agencies you sent the OP dossier to about whether they will charge you with a crime for returning the same crypto back to the same address it was sent from?
What confirmation are you waiting for and from which international law enforcement agency?
How long will it take you to update you website to show the AML/KYC is mandatory when a customer tries to make a trade beyond a certain value?
September 12, 2018, 07:29:46 AM
Quote
I didn't think you'd respond to my asking. Kudos to you, and thank you for the information. To be absolutely clear, you operate from the quoted address in Belize? And the Dutch address is only for receiving correspondence by mail? If somebody visits the Belize address, will they meet any member of your working staff or team?
No, our Belize office is our legal address which is necessary for company registration. A legal address signifies the fact that the company has been legitimately registered, and all is well.
Our Amsterdam address is our postal address where you can direct any official claims you might have by mail.
Quote
I understand you not being obligated to name your team members and working staff. Is there a good reason why you have chosen to hide this information? Because this is how it seems, and some might speculate it has everything to do with the recent scam accusations against you. Wouldn't it be better to come out in the open to deal with this head on? Instead of hiding in the shadows, as if you are afraid of something? As I understand it, this is the op's biggest problem with sending you his data.
If you have nothing to hide, and are an upstanding member of the crypto community, especially one that is demanding AML/KYC from users, you shouldn't have any problem disclosing who your founders and owners are. Hiding this information, raises a bright red flag and reeks of double standards, especially when you are asking the op to disclose his identity. But at the same time, you are not prepared to extend the same courtesy to the community.
If you have nothing to hide, and are an upstanding member of the crypto community, especially one that is demanding AML/KYC from users, you shouldn't have any problem disclosing who your founders and owners are. Hiding this information, raises a bright red flag and reeks of double standards, especially when you are asking the op to disclose his identity. But at the same time, you are not prepared to extend the same courtesy to the community.
Our team's main interest is developing great and convenient blockchain products and crypto services in peace, and publicity has never been in the scope of our work. Despite all that, we respect all the rules of the crypto world, and, when we were obligated to implement the KYC procedure, we did so without hesitation.
If publishing all the info about our founders and team members becomes mandatory, we will happily oblige.
There are people in our team who are in the public eye most of the time (me, for example, since this is my job as a marketing associate), but the rest of our team members are entitled to their privacy. Actually, I don't think there are that many blockchain complanies all of whose team members are out in the open. We certainly aren't one of those.
Quote
ow on earth is anybody going to meet your team members in a blockchain conference, when they have no idea who these people are? And which upcoming conferences, could you kindly provide a list? Thank you.
We aren't hermits sitting in a bunker, we are a normal company with a normal business and a number of partners; therefore, our team members attend various conferences. If you would like to have a chat with any of our team members, you are free to contact us via one of the previously mentioned sources and set up a meeting on a blockchain event, as normal market participants do.
Quote
Stands to reason, Kraken did the right thing by allowing you to withdraw your funds and then close your account. I am sure changenow will settle the issue with the OP by returning his funds without delay.
As for the refund - we can return ni23457's funds only once we've confirmed, once and for all, that we have the right to return them and that it won't land us in any legal trouble. We don't want any problems for ourselves.
September 12, 2018, 06:48:17 AM
really scam!
new farmed account =)
Do you think nobody checks the history of your posts?
September 12, 2018, 06:26:28 AM
>Do you expect people to meet your team members at blockchain conferences but they will keep their full names hidden?
Have you ever visited any blockchain related conference? Have you ever participated in any blockchain related business? I guess no. The same troll as ni23457 is
Have you ever visited any blockchain related conference? Have you ever participated in any blockchain related business? I guess no. The same troll as ni23457 is
I have been to conferences in the past but have always known the names of the people who represent their company.
September 12, 2018, 03:57:05 AM
I had the funds withheld in Kraken, by not wanting to verify my account they simply allowed me to withdraw my money and close my account. It is logical and fair. Excuses for not returning the money is surely a scam.
Stands to reason, Kraken did the right thing by allowing you to withdraw your funds and then close your account. I am sure changenow will settle the issue with the OP by returning his funds without delay.
Pardon me, but I think you are being super optimistic here. I don't see it happening but I hope I am wrong. This seems to be normal and common practice in Russia. The Sergei Magnitsky case is a good example.
Our registered legal address in Belize is Suite 102, Ground Floor, Blake Building, Corner Eyre & Hutson Streets, Belize City.
Our postal address is Amsterdam, Kraanspoor 50, 1033 SE, Netherlands.
Our postal address is Amsterdam, Kraanspoor 50, 1033 SE, Netherlands.
I didn't think you'd respond to my asking. Kudos to you, and thank you for the information. To be absolutely clear, you operate from the quoted address in Belize? And the Dutch address is only for receiving correspondence by mail? If somebody visits the Belize address, will they meet any member of your working staff or team?
To reiterate: we are not a public company, therefore we are not obligated to disclose any of our names and surnames.
Our investors have all the necessary information about us, and the current state of matters is perfectly satisfactory for everyone involved.
If you want to meet any of our team members personally, you might catch them at blockchain conferences.
Our investors have all the necessary information about us, and the current state of matters is perfectly satisfactory for everyone involved.
If you want to meet any of our team members personally, you might catch them at blockchain conferences.
I understand you not being obligated to name your team members and working staff. Is there a good reason why you have chosen to hide this information? Because this is how it seems, and some might speculate it has everything to do with the recent scam accusations against you. Wouldn't it be better to come out in the open to deal with this head on? Instead of hiding in the shadows, as if you are afraid of something? As I understand it, this is the op's biggest problem with sending you his data.
If you have nothing to hide, and are an upstanding member of the crypto community, especially one that is demanding AML/KYC from users, you shouldn't have any problem disclosing who your founders and owners are. Hiding this information, raises a bright red flag and reeks of double standards, especially when you are asking the op to disclose his identity. But at the same time, you are not prepared to extend the same courtesy to the community.
How on earth is anybody going to meet your team members in a blockchain conference, when they have no idea who these people are? And which upcoming conferences, could you kindly provide a list? Thank you.
September 11, 2018, 03:13:22 PM
If you want help with the legal dispute in Belize I can help you get a lawyer to visit them.
They must have someone in Belize, or at least in the last case we take away the argument of their company in Belize.
It's simply offshore company They must have someone in Belize, or at least in the last case we take away the argument of their company in Belize.
https://gws-offshore.com/belize-offshore-company/
Quote
Your offshore company in Belize within 24 hours
Highest confidentiality and discretion
A dedicated client relationship manager
A bank account, including e-Banking and credit card
Share capital must not be paid up
Anonymous company formation with nominee director and shareholder (optional)
Basic establishment fee: 890 USD
Highest confidentiality and discretion
A dedicated client relationship manager
A bank account, including e-Banking and credit card
Share capital must not be paid up
Anonymous company formation with nominee director and shareholder (optional)
Basic establishment fee: 890 USD
Everyone can register such a company in a few days.
Yes it is an off-shore company that anybody can register just like Dean Nolan did with Betking by registering his company in Costa Rica.
I have asked changenow to kindly return your funds to you. I hope they will oblige. Please allow them some time to reply.
September 11, 2018, 02:23:18 PM
If you want help with the legal dispute in Belize I can help you get a lawyer to visit them.
They must have someone in Belize, or at least in the last case we take away the argument of their company in Belize.
It's simply offshore company They must have someone in Belize, or at least in the last case we take away the argument of their company in Belize.
https://gws-offshore.com/belize-offshore-company/
Quote
Your offshore company in Belize within 24 hours
Highest confidentiality and discretion
A dedicated client relationship manager
A bank account, including e-Banking and credit card
Share capital must not be paid up
Anonymous company formation with nominee director and shareholder (optional)
Basic establishment fee: 890 USD
Highest confidentiality and discretion
A dedicated client relationship manager
A bank account, including e-Banking and credit card
Share capital must not be paid up
Anonymous company formation with nominee director and shareholder (optional)
Basic establishment fee: 890 USD
Everyone can register such a company in a few days.
September 11, 2018, 01:57:48 PM
The information about our addresses has been added to the About section on our website: changenow.io/about.
WRT the system: this is a good idea, thanks again! We are going to discuss that with our legal team and whether we can change the process while still maintaining the legality of the operation. We will keep you updated on the progress.
We are working on updating our interface in order to make everything more transparent and informative. A new AML flow is now in development; we are hoping to present some positive changes to the community soon.
@Polina_ChangeNOW
Many thanks again for your prompt reply and the swift manner in which you updated the About Us section of your website. As a gesture of goodwill I have removed your website information and warning from my signature and will not use it again. If your AML/KYC policy remains transparent I am sure the community members here including myself will defend you if anybody in future complains about you. Thank you.
Yes I agree, if you are a genuine bonafide business then the moment the customer selects the crypto-type and amount he wants to send for exchanging, that is the point he should be notified if AML/KYC is required and if he is expected to send ID before the exchange can go ahead. If the customer declines he should get his funds sent back to the same address. If he wishes to proceed but does not send ID when asked then it must be made clear as to what will happen next because under no circumstances can a genuine bonafide business indefinitely hold on to funds that it will not exchange and belong to someone else.
Please can you return the funds to the OP using the same address he sent them from? There is no need to drag this issue out further, please consider this request. From this point forward after your AML/KYC information has been updated a couple of days ago, if somebody comes along and says they have been scammed because you asked for ID then we all will tell them they are lying because we know your TOS and AML/KYC policy. As far as this particular case is concerned, it has been maybe more than 2 months that you have been holding the funds the OP sent.
Please return the funds to the same address. There is no need or expectation for him to apologise to you and there is no need or expectation for you to apologise to him. Let us all forget this matter and end it in good faith. I am sure the OP will ask the forum to remove the adverts too. Nobody deserves to have 110BCH/11 BTC stuck like this for over 2 months with no way for him to receive them. It is clear he will not send the ID because he does not trust you and under those circumstances I agree with him and would also never send my ID because I would have felt scammed. Likewise you have received 2 fake ID sets and are cautious about proceeding but only because he did not know your AML/KYC policy, actually none of us did because we thought it was "anonymous and limitless" but now you have updated it we can make a fresh start.
No legal agency anywhere in the world will see a problem with you sending the funds back to the OP as long as you return them to the same address they were received from. You are not exchanging them for another crypto and you are not sending the original 110 BCH back to a different address, it is the same transaction being cancelled. Please return his funds. Thank you.
September 11, 2018, 01:22:08 PM
The main problem is that the OP have sent fake ID two times. It might be a legal problem for the service to release the funds in such case.
September 11, 2018, 01:18:41 PM
I had the funds withheld in Kraken, by not wanting to verify my account they simply allowed me to withdraw my money and close my account. It is logical and fair. Excuses for not returning the money is surely a scam.
If you want help with the legal dispute in Belize I can help you get a lawyer to visit them.
They must have someone in Belize, or at least in the last case we take away the argument of their company in Belize.
September 11, 2018, 01:10:59 PM
@changenow
Please explain why your TOS page shows the laws of Belize govern your company but your About Us page gives the impression the same company is registered and located in Amsterdam, Netherlands.
Please explain why your TOS page shows the laws of Belize govern your company but your About Us page gives the impression the same company is registered and located in Amsterdam, Netherlands.
There might've been a misunderstanding, and for that I'm sorry. Thank you for pointing our attention to that.
Our registered legal address in Belize is Suite 102, Ground Floor, Blake Building, Corner Eyre & Hutson Streets, Belize City.
Our posting address is Amsterdam, Kraanspoor 50, 1033 SE, Netherlands.
Thank you for the prompt reply. it is appreciated. We look forward to seeing this information clearly stated on your website.
Please would you consider adding an option on to your exchange service which would allow the customer to immediately have his funds sent back to the same address if your automated AML/KYC security system requests the customer sends his ID. That way the customer has a choice whether to agree to continue with the exchange or not.
If your system is not going to change and you intend to indefinitely hold customers funds if you ask for ID after they have started the trade then could you please highlight on your website in large font what will happen to those funds so everybody will see it and be clear about everything. Thank you.
The information about our addresses has been added to the About section on our website: changenow.io/about.
WRT the system: this is a good idea, thanks again! We are going to discuss that with our legal team and whether we can change the process while still maintaining the legality of the operation. We will keep you updated on the progress.
We are working on updating our interface in order to make everything more transparent and informative. A new AML flow is now in development; we are hoping to present some positive changes to the community soon.
September 11, 2018, 01:07:01 PM
Our registered legal address in Belize is Suite 102, Ground Floor, Blake Building, Corner Eyre & Hutson Streets, Belize City.
Our posting address is Amsterdam, Kraanspoor 50, 1033 SE, Netherlands.
Stupid Russian scammer. POSTAL ADDRESS, POSTAL! Our posting address is Amsterdam, Kraanspoor 50, 1033 SE, Netherlands.
What price per month? More than 100 dollars?
But anyway no one is interested in your postal address. Nobody will send you paper letters. Tell us where you are physically. Where your CEO, founders and developers are located?
Simply confirm this:
All your team are in St Petersburg:
https://postimg.cc/image/9d9eoze9t (the page was removed a 5 weeks ago)
They are employees of Evercode Lab. Also 2 of these persons are founders of Evercode Lab
https://postimg.cc/image/6j69bhmdd/ (the founders were changed 3 weeks ago; the office was abandoned, new address of the office is secret)
September 11, 2018, 12:44:37 PM
@changenow
Please explain why your TOS page shows the laws of Belize govern your company but your About Us page gives the impression the same company is registered and located in Amsterdam, Netherlands.
Please explain why your TOS page shows the laws of Belize govern your company but your About Us page gives the impression the same company is registered and located in Amsterdam, Netherlands.
There might've been a misunderstanding, and for that I'm sorry. Thank you for pointing our attention to that.
Our registered legal address in Belize is Suite 102, Ground Floor, Blake Building, Corner Eyre & Hutson Streets, Belize City.
Our posting address is Amsterdam, Kraanspoor 50, 1033 SE, Netherlands.
Thank you for the prompt reply. it is appreciated. We look forward to seeing this information clearly stated on your website.
Please would you consider adding an option on to your exchange service which would allow the customer to immediately have his funds sent back to the same address if your automated AML/KYC security system requests the customer sends his ID. That way the customer has a choice whether to agree to continue with the exchange or not.
If your system is not going to change and you intend to indefinitely hold customers funds if you ask for ID after they have started the trade then could you please highlight on your website in large font what will happen to those funds so everybody will see it and be clear about everything. Thank you.
September 11, 2018, 12:35:04 PM
@changenow
Please explain why your TOS page shows the laws of Belize govern your company but your About Us page gives the impression the same company is registered and located in Amsterdam, Netherlands.
Please explain why your TOS page shows the laws of Belize govern your company but your About Us page gives the impression the same company is registered and located in Amsterdam, Netherlands.
There might've been a misunderstanding, and for that I'm sorry. Thank you for pointing our attention to that.
Our registered legal address in Belize is Suite 102, Ground Floor, Blake Building, Corner Eyre & Hutson Streets, Belize City.
Our postal address is Amsterdam, Kraanspoor 50, 1033 SE, Netherlands.
September 11, 2018, 12:20:45 PM
@changenow
Please explain why your TOS page shows the laws of Belize govern your company but your About Us page gives the impression the same company is registered and located in Amsterdam, Netherlands.
Please explain why your TOS page shows the laws of Belize govern your company but your About Us page gives the impression the same company is registered and located in Amsterdam, Netherlands.
Jump to: