Cheap & silent mini PC for Bitcoin node & blockchain explorer? - page 3.

dkbit98

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Quote from: odolvlobo on August 10, 2024, 08:57:20 PM

I just bought a GMKtec NucBox G5, with N97 CPU, 12 GB RAM, 256 GB M.2 SATA SSD, and Win 11 Pro for $160. I plan to replace the SSD with 2TB and install Linux. It is very small -- about 7.25 cm x 7.25 cm x 4.5 cm.

Not bad for that price, and I found some sales online even cheaper for similar configuration.
I don't know if you heard about recent unfixable bugs found both in Intel and AMD processors, so better check if your processors are affected by this.

odolvlobo

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I just bought a GMKtec NucBox G5, with N97 CPU, 12 GB RAM, 256 GB M.2 SATA SSD, and Win 11 Pro for $160. I plan to replace the SSD with 2TB and install Linux. It is very small -- about 7.25 cm x 7.25 cm x 4.5 cm.

There is also NucBox G3 for $150 with N100, 8 GB RAM, 256 GB M.2 SSD and Win 11 Pro for $150 (or bare bones for $120). The advantage of this one over the G5 is that it has an additional NVME SSD slot.

DaveF

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Quote from: ABCbits on August 04, 2024, 04:11:48 AM

The price is attractive, but it's a shame company who make those mini PC rarely offer 2TB option which better for running full node in long term. You either have to buy bare-bone version (where you also buy and put RAM/SSD by yourself) or buy ready-to-use ones which have extra SSD slot.

At this point it's probably better to get the 1TB version and in a year clone it to a 2TB or 4TB drive and go from there.

External nvme m.2 cases are cheap enough (once again looking at the US pricing) and larger drives just keep dropping in price. So start with the 1TB, and then when it gets full get a larger one + external. Clone the 1TB to the larger one using the external case and then you have more space on your node and a handy 1TB external drive.

Some of the mini units do have a SATA + m.2 but not all and with the ever changing specs of these cheaper units it's tough to be sure till you get it and open it up.

-Dave

RickDeckard

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Quote from: ABCbits on August 04, 2024, 04:11:48 AM

The price is attractive, but it's a shame company who make those mini PC rarely offer 2TB option which better for running full node in long term. You either have to buy bare-bone version (where you also buy and put RAM/SSD by yourself) or buy ready-to-use ones which have extra SSD slot.

2TB isn't very often found in these systems (that I'm aware) because most people that use them don't need that much space considering the market they are aiming for. However, as it was suggested before, just buying this machine, selling the 1TB SSD (which wouldn't be hard I believe) and then buying a 2TB one would make things a little bit even on the cost side.

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Quote from: RickDeckard on August 03, 2024, 07:36:51 AM

I believe that SSD's for this format will be expensive so perhaps it won't be a good option when compared to others already in the market with Intel N100, but it may be useful for some other applications as well.

Not only more expensive, but it also have smaller maximum capacity. I did quick search and most result shows 512GB or 1TB option, with fewer option for 2TB. Current Bitcoin blockchain size is about 600GB, where it grows almost 100GB in last year. So 1TB isn't best option in long run, especially if you also want to run self-hosted block explorer/Electrum server which require more storage capacity.

Quote from: DaveF on August 03, 2024, 05:50:01 PM

Yeah, Amazon US has a couple with 1TB drives for less

The price is attractive, but it's a shame company who make those mini PC rarely offer 2TB option which better for running full node in long term. You either have to buy bare-bone version (where you also buy and put RAM/SSD by yourself) or buy ready-to-use ones which have extra SSD slot.

DaveF

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Quote from: RickDeckard on August 03, 2024, 04:39:24 PM

Quote from: DaveF on August 03, 2024, 11:01:07 AM

It looks neat, but I keep coming back to the fact that you can get a new N100 system with 16GB of RAM and a 1TB SSD for under $200
All in a box ready to do. Things like the Radxa are WAYYYY cooler to tinker with.

Can't deny that. At the time of my previous writings the Beelink had a higher price but now it's sitting on 189€ at Amazon.de[1] which makes it enticing for a new unit (even still considering buying a new SSD card).

I guess that this thread has become a nice collection of small forms devices that have potential uses for numerous applications. However, for the initial task at hand - running a node and blockchain explorer - there's no denying that a refurbished/used pc (such as the Dell Optiplex M range of machines) ends up being a more modest choice.

[1]https://www.amazon.de/-/en/Intel-Alder-Lake-N100-Computer-Bluetooth5-2/dp/B08DFL2L1F

Yeah, Amazon US has a couple with 1TB drives for less

But they are priced according to region.

https://www.amazon.com/KAMRUI-Lake-N100-Computers-Computer-Ethernet/dp/B0CL7DLH6T/?th=1

Once you get to this kind of price point even the used / refurbs become tough to justify.

The advantage of the RPi is that it does keep it's value due to their long production runs of the same product.
I just sold 1 of these for about what I paid for it 3 years ago:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/nodes-in-a-box-5364113

Try that with a PC.....

-Dave

RickDeckard

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Quote from: DaveF on August 03, 2024, 11:01:07 AM

It looks neat, but I keep coming back to the fact that you can get a new N100 system with 16GB of RAM and a 1TB SSD for under $200
All in a box ready to do. Things like the Radxa are WAYYYY cooler to tinker with.

Can't deny that. At the time of my previous writings the Beelink had a higher price but now it's sitting on 189€ at Amazon.de[1] which makes it enticing for a new unit (even still considering buying a new SSD card).

I guess that this thread has become a nice collection of small forms devices that have potential uses for numerous applications. However, for the initial task at hand - running a node and blockchain explorer - there's no denying that a refurbished/used pc (such as the Dell Optiplex M range of machines) ends up being a more modest choice.

[1]https://www.amazon.de/-/en/Intel-Alder-Lake-N100-Computer-Bluetooth5-2/dp/B08DFL2L1F

DaveF

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Quote from: RickDeckard on August 03, 2024, 07:36:51 AM

This could be interesting (?) - Radxa recently has launched Radxa X4[1] with the following attributes:

Quote

Intel N100 CPU (4 Alderlake CPU cores, up to 3.4GHz)
Intel UHD Graphics (750MHz)
4/8/12/16GB LPDDR5 4786MT/s
2.5Gbit RJ45 Ethernet (with PoE support via HAT)
M.2 M-Key connection for M.2 2230 NVMe drives
12V USB-C Power Delivery Input
3x USB-A 3.2 (10Gbps) ports, 1x USB-A 2.0
WiFi 5 & BT5, or WiFi 6 & BT5.2 (the latter on 8GB RAM models and up)
2x Micro HDMI (up to 4K60)
Raspberry Pi RP2040 to control the 40-pin GPIO headers
Fan & RTC Battery headers
3.5mm Headphone & Microphone Jack
eMMC is available either to solder yourself or when you order a SKU that includes it

Some reviews have starting to appear[2] but it's still too early to tell I suppose. The product is also out of stock in all of the approved shop partners of Radxa so we won't be able to actually grab one at the moment even if we wanted to. I believe that SSD's for this format will be expensive so perhaps it won't be a good option when compared to others already in the market with Intel N100, but it may be useful for some other applications as well.

[1]https://radxa.com/products/x/x4/
[2]https://bret.dk/intel-n100-radxa-x4-first-thoughts/

It looks neat, but I keep coming back to the fact that you can get a new N100 system with 16GB of RAM and a 1TB SSD for under $200
All in a box ready to do. Things like the Radxa are WAYYYY cooler to tinker with.

But the 8 GB Radxa + drive + case + power supply and you are at a higher price point.
To get you what? For tinkering yeah it's much better.
To run a node + explorer + other BTC / crypto related things? I'll take the mini PC.
And as has been pointed out, used PCs are even cheaper.

Will probably still pick one up to tinker with if they become more available, but to play with not for node use.

-Dave

RickDeckard

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This could be interesting (?) - Radxa recently has launched Radxa X4[1] with the following attributes:

Quote

Intel N100 CPU (4 Alderlake CPU cores, up to 3.4GHz)
Intel UHD Graphics (750MHz)
4/8/12/16GB LPDDR5 4786MT/s
2.5Gbit RJ45 Ethernet (with PoE support via HAT)
M.2 M-Key connection for M.2 2230 NVMe drives
12V USB-C Power Delivery Input
3x USB-A 3.2 (10Gbps) ports, 1x USB-A 2.0
WiFi 5 & BT5, or WiFi 6 & BT5.2 (the latter on 8GB RAM models and up)
2x Micro HDMI (up to 4K60)
Raspberry Pi RP2040 to control the 40-pin GPIO headers
Fan & RTC Battery headers
3.5mm Headphone & Microphone Jack
eMMC is available either to solder yourself or when you order a SKU that includes it

Some reviews have starting to appear[2] but it's still too early to tell I suppose. The product is also out of stock in all of the approved shop partners of Radxa so we won't be able to actually grab one at the moment even if we wanted to. I believe that SSD's for this format will be expensive so perhaps it won't be a good option when compared to others already in the market with Intel N100, but it may be useful for some other applications as well.

[1]https://radxa.com/products/x/x4/
[2]https://bret.dk/intel-n100-radxa-x4-first-thoughts/

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'The right to privacy matters'

https://www.amazon.com/Beelink-Pro-Lake-N100-Desktop-Computer/dp/B0CRNPBGNB/ref=sr_1_2_sspa?

so the unit above is cheap it needs an upgrade to a 1 or 2 tb ssd.

below a 32gb
two 1 tb ssds
i7 9700t cpu

https://www.ebay.com/itm/145780003157?

under 575 which is a bit pricey

you can get it for 430 and no drives

if you are patient you can do this for less

I like an i7 intel t low power cpu with 32gb ram just look close on ebay.

RickDeckard

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Quote from: DaveF on May 20, 2024, 06:37:32 AM

Assuming the Beelink is the same one that Amazon is selling here in the US after getting the 1TB drive you now have the old 512GB that you can sell dropping the price even more.

The one I saw was from a random vendor in Amazon Germany[1] and it came with a 500 GB PCIe M.2 SSD which hovers around 40-50 €. If you're able to sell it you'll be able to have the unit ready with a 1TB for overall 210-230 € depending on the SSD you get.

Quote from: DaveF on May 20, 2024, 06:37:32 AM

Still, the H4 is a neat product, will probably pick one up if the price drops since it's going to probably get played with and tested and put in a cabinet and forgotten about......

So it is not only my disease it seems, good to know. If the price does drop I would also consider fetching a unit, but right now the price difference is big when compared to other (similar) options available.

[1]https://www.amazon.de/-/en/Intel-Alder-Lake-N100-Computer-Bluetooth5-2/dp/B08DFL2L1F

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Quote from: RickDeckard on May 20, 2024, 06:03:20 AM

Reviews of Odroid H4 are starting to appear[1] (H4 Plus vs H4 Ultra). It seems that the Ultra reaches high temperatures (around 60ºC) and since it doesn't have holes to mount a fan, but this could be surpassed by mounting the fan in the case (although it is not optimal). The section where he played an emulated game in there (God of War 2) wasn't that great as well, but that could had to do with some configurations.

H4 Plus ended up being the chosen winner for his review (considering that is cheaper, low powered consumption, less heat), so it's a case that the pricier may not be the best overall.

Price wise, the H4 Plus in Europe is hovering around 180 €[2] and this is just the board. Considering charger, memory (16GB) and SSD (1TB) it goes up to ~ 380 € and it would still need a case. The Beelink Mini S12 Pro can be found for 200 € in Europe right now + a 1TB nvme stick for around ~ 60 €, so the price difference ends up being more than 120 € considering that we are missing a case. As it stands currently, it ends up being a better alternative (price wise) between the two.

[1]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmBaTZ9S114
[2]https://www.odroid.nl/odroid-h4-series/Odroid-H4-Plus

Assuming the Beelink is the same one that Amazon is selling here in the US after getting the 1TB drive you now have the old 512GB that you can sell dropping the price even more.

Still, the H4 is a neat product, will probably pick one up if the price drops since it's going to probably get played with and tested and put in a cabinet and forgotten about......

-Dave

RickDeckard

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Reviews of Odroid H4 are starting to appear[1] (H4 Plus vs H4 Ultra). It seems that the Ultra reaches high temperatures (around 60ºC) and since it doesn't have holes to mount a fan, but this could be surpassed by mounting the fan in the case (although it is not optimal). The section where he played an emulated game in there (God of War 2) wasn't that great as well, but that could had to do with some configurations.

H4 Plus ended up being the chosen winner for his review (considering that is cheaper, low powered consumption, less heat), so it's a case that the pricier may not be the best overall.

Price wise, the H4 Plus in Europe is hovering around 180 €[2] and this is just the board. Considering charger, memory (16GB) and SSD (1TB) it goes up to ~ 380 € and it would still need a case. The Beelink Mini S12 Pro can be found for 200 € in Europe right now + a 1TB nvme stick for around ~ 60 €, so the price difference ends up being more than 120 € considering that we are missing a case. As it stands currently, it ends up being a better alternative (price wise) between the two.

[1]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BmBaTZ9S114
[2]https://www.odroid.nl/odroid-h4-series/Odroid-H4-Plus

dkbit98

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Quote from: DaveF on April 27, 2024, 01:01:41 PM

You need one of these then: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmos_clock

I like the design, but I don't like the price Shocked

Quartz mechanism is good enough for me as a silent wall clock.

Quote from: DaveF on April 27, 2024, 01:01:41 PM

At least with the mid range Dells and HPs that I deal with, I see a high variation of power pull from the wall when using cheap generic AC adapters vs. using the OEM ones.
Better build quality and better components probably saves you 3 to 5 watts at a minimum. Over years and years of 24/7 use that does add up to a real number.

Every watt counts, and gold rated power supply makes a huge difference compared to regular ones Wink

Quote from: Jet Cash on April 29, 2024, 12:55:39 PM

I'm thinking of using a Raspberry Pi5 with 8Gb of ram and a 2Tb Crucial P3 NVME disk. It's very quiet, well cooled, well supported and has lots of connectivity options. You can use a laptop as a terminal to control it, so you don't need a screen keyboard or mouse.

Does Raspberry have any plans to Pi500 version with integrated keyboard, similar like Pi400 that was released few years ago?

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I'm thinking of using a Raspberry Pi5 with 8Gb of ram and a 2Tb Crucial P3 NVME disk. It's very quiet, well cooled, well supported and has lots of connectivity options. You can use a laptop as a terminal to control it, so you don't need a screen keyboard or mouse. Power is provided through an USB-C port. I want to use this to research my old hard drives with wallets on them, but it would be great to run a full node. The ssd is extremely fast, and that helps in handling blockchain files.

JossBrown

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I'm still on my Dell Optiplex 9020M, and it's doing a great job, so I'm in no rush. But at some point I'll want to upgrade to newer hardware, and I'll probably go the DIY rackmount route. Looking at the Odroid H4+, that's actually the best option currently. I'd choose the Mini-ITX kit and use my own rackmount chassis. But the board seems to have everything you need: up to 48 GB of RAM, eMMC for Ubuntu Server boot volume, x4 gen3 M.2 SSD for the data volume (timechain etc.), and a SATA SSD as backup volume. Compared to the Odroid, the ASRock N100DC-ITX, while surely a nice efficient board, would probably be overkill.

As for the Odroid cases, I could see myself using one of them with a second Odroid board as a remote Lightning watchtower node. But that would be stage 3. Wink

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Quote from: JossBrown on April 08, 2024, 08:13:43 AM

~
My own DIY Mini-ITX rackmount build with an N100 that I slapped together last night would use:

Inter-Tech 1U-K-126L rackmount chassis
2 * Noctua NF-A4x20 PWM fans
ASRock N100DC-ITX
19V 120W DC power supply

for a total of approx. €250 w/out shipping for a barebones build w/out memory and storage. More than an old refurbished Mini-PC of course, but not much more than e.g. an N100 Beelink.

Which route did you end up taking? Did you actually build that node or are you waiting for some results regarding ODROID-H4 Plus performance? (Hardkernel already has a case available in their website bt the way)

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Quote from: dkbit98 on April 19, 2024, 09:23:14 AM

Same here.
I even purchased totally silent analogue wall clock.

You need one of these then: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmos_clock

https://www.jaeger-lecoultre.com/us-en/clocks/atmos

Quote from: dkbit98 on April 24, 2024, 09:29:49 AM

...
This is what AI is saying for average laptops:

Quote

Laptops typically use between 30-70 watts of power when in use.
The average power consumption of a laptop is around 50-60 watts.

Power Consumption by Activity:

Web browsing: 20-40 watts
Office work: 30-50 watts
Video streaming: 40-60 watts
Gaming: 60-120 watts
Video editing: 80-150 watts

At least with the mid range Dells and HPs that I deal with, I see a high variation of power pull from the wall when using cheap generic AC adapters vs. using the OEM ones.
Better build quality and better components probably saves you 3 to 5 watts at a minimum. Over years and years of 24/7 use that does add up to a real number.

-Dave

dkbit98

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Quote from: LoyceV on April 19, 2024, 09:43:26 AM

I wouldn't compare my fridge with a node though: I can't really go without a fridge. But if I were to buy a new one, it would be an energy efficient one. Now that I check it: you're wrong on the power consumption. This one (260l fridge, 103l freezer) consumes 11.9W on average. That's a lot less than my current laptop. That's really impressive!

Don't trust, verify (with power meter).
You are assuming that everyone is using brand new fridge with class A energy classification, but I don't think they do.
I could probably give better example with electric heater or air conditioner that are biggest power consumers but I wanted to have something that is working 24/7.
Only other thing I could think off is light bulbs, but there are old style incandescent and new led lights, so it is wide range of consumption.

Here is what AI told me about average fridge power consumption:

Quote

A typical American-style fridge freezer uses between 40W and 80W (minimum) to 150W and 400W (maximum) of electricity.
A fridge uses around 100W to 250W of electricity, with an average daily energy usage of 1 to 2 kilowatt-hours (kWh) or about $150 per year.
A large fridge uses around 180W or 1575 kWh annually.
Some fridges may use as little as 10W to 15W for table top models.

This is what AI is saying for average laptops:

Quote

Laptops typically use between 30-70 watts of power when in use.
The average power consumption of a laptop is around 50-60 watts.

Power Consumption by Activity:

Web browsing: 20-40 watts
Office work: 30-50 watts
Video streaming: 40-60 watts
Gaming: 60-120 watts
Video editing: 80-150 watts

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Quote from: Findingnemo on April 19, 2024, 11:37:40 AM

Minimalist life is understandable what about this new trend, power saver? Wink

Using less power doesn't mean you have a minimalist lifestyle. I don't mind using a lot of power, but if I can do the same thing with less, I do it.

Quote from: Findingnemo on April 20, 2024, 03:31:35 AM

I don't have much experience with the mini PCs

Any PC can run 24/7. If it doesn't have enough cooling, it won't last an hour. If it has enough cooling, there's no upper limit. Just clean dust from the fan once in a while.

Topic: Cheap & silent mini PC for Bitcoin node & blockchain explorer? - page 3. (Read 1791 times)