China to overtake the Us as the largest global economy by 2028? - page 2.

Mauser

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Quote from: bryant.coleman on May 03, 2021, 12:24:17 PM

Quote from: tygeade on April 28, 2021, 11:55:43 AM

Okay, how sure are they about all that? Maybe the pandemic has been really bad and has caused a lot of things to happen and also pushed the US economy to a point where it’s low at this point, because they didn’t take a quick action to stop contain it before it became a wild fire.

As for China, we all know how it all happened, the whole world were pissed with them for not giving out information and the way they were able to contain it easily made the world to feel like they were the mastermind behind it all lol. Anyway, the future is one thing that no man can tell, we can only assume that something is going to happen based on what we are seeing at the moment, but things can still change at any moment.

Don't you think that there is something strange with this? China is where the virus first originated. And yet, they have reported less than 5,000 deaths. On the other hand, the United States has reported close to 600,000 deaths. Can anyone explain the reason for this difference? Is anyone going to argue that the healthcare system in China is much better when compared to that in the United States? Or is someone going to claim that the population density in the US is more than that in China?

This is very strange indeed. So far I didn't read much about how the virus really originated. We all know that China likes to manipulate it's numbers, but still how can that be? China has so many people and they also live together very close in large cities, but still it doesn't seem severe over there. Also I heard that China has multiple corona vaccines already on the market, even before western pharma companies had them. It doesn't sound right.

ultrloa

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Quote from: Vishnu.Reang on May 05, 2021, 07:13:59 AM

Quote from: DrBeer on May 05, 2021, 06:40:32 AM

Everything is simple here. It's no secret that official China loves to manipulate data to achieve its goals. For a long time they hid the real indicators of morbidity, did not let international observers in, distorted the data in every possible way, including deliberate forgery! Therefore, looking at the official statistics from China is a pointless exercise - you will base your calculations on incorrect baselines. I am a supporter of simple logic - if some statistical data differ sharply from the "standard" - then there is either an error in the data (including deliberate manipulations), or there are some real reasons for such deviations. For example, the sales volume of air conditioners in the Far North is always lower than in Southeast Asia, that is all logical

China might have manipulated its data. I am not going to argue about it. But how they managed to completely eradicate the COVID 19 pandemic within their borders? The last reported death from COVID 19 in China was many months ago. How come they are able to eradicate a virus, which is creating trouble for all the other countries in the world? And they are not lying about it. The Chinese cities are not under lockdown or any restriction, and the life seems to be normal. How this is possible?

The one I see a secret on why they are successful to manage to return back to normal is the citizen is well discipline to follow the governments order, I see so many videos of vaccination drive on china so maybe they manage to inject majority of their population thats why they back on their normal life if not normal close to that.

Look at this video https://youtu.be/hSCUw5UouXc

People are so confident about not wearing mask on streats.

Vishnu.Reang

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Quote from: DrBeer on May 05, 2021, 06:40:32 AM

Everything is simple here. It's no secret that official China loves to manipulate data to achieve its goals. For a long time they hid the real indicators of morbidity, did not let international observers in, distorted the data in every possible way, including deliberate forgery! Therefore, looking at the official statistics from China is a pointless exercise - you will base your calculations on incorrect baselines. I am a supporter of simple logic - if some statistical data differ sharply from the "standard" - then there is either an error in the data (including deliberate manipulations), or there are some real reasons for such deviations. For example, the sales volume of air conditioners in the Far North is always lower than in Southeast Asia, that is all logical

China might have manipulated its data. I am not going to argue about it. But how they managed to completely eradicate the COVID 19 pandemic within their borders? The last reported death from COVID 19 in China was many months ago. How come they are able to eradicate a virus, which is creating trouble for all the other countries in the world? And they are not lying about it. The Chinese cities are not under lockdown or any restriction, and the life seems to be normal. How this is possible?

DrBeer

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Quote from: bryant.coleman on May 03, 2021, 12:24:17 PM

Quote from: tygeade on April 28, 2021, 11:55:43 AM

Okay, how sure are they about all that? Maybe the pandemic has been really bad and has caused a lot of things to happen and also pushed the US economy to a point where it’s low at this point, because they didn’t take a quick action to stop contain it before it became a wild fire.

As for China, we all know how it all happened, the whole world were pissed with them for not giving out information and the way they were able to contain it easily made the world to feel like they were the mastermind behind it all lol. Anyway, the future is one thing that no man can tell, we can only assume that something is going to happen based on what we are seeing at the moment, but things can still change at any moment.

Don't you think that there is something strange with this? China is where the virus first originated. And yet, they have reported less than 5,000 deaths. On the other hand, the United States has reported close to 600,000 deaths. Can anyone explain the reason for this difference? Is anyone going to argue that the healthcare system in China is much better when compared to that in the United States? Or is someone going to claim that the population density in the US is more than that in China?

Everything is simple here. It's no secret that official China loves to manipulate data to achieve its goals. For a long time they hid the real indicators of morbidity, did not let international observers in, distorted the data in every possible way, including deliberate forgery! Therefore, looking at the official statistics from China is a pointless exercise - you will base your calculations on incorrect baselines. I am a supporter of simple logic - if some statistical data differ sharply from the "standard" - then there is either an error in the data (including deliberate manipulations), or there are some real reasons for such deviations. For example, the sales volume of air conditioners in the Far North is always lower than in Southeast Asia, that is all logical

bryant.coleman

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Quote from: tygeade on April 28, 2021, 11:55:43 AM

Okay, how sure are they about all that? Maybe the pandemic has been really bad and has caused a lot of things to happen and also pushed the US economy to a point where it’s low at this point, because they didn’t take a quick action to stop contain it before it became a wild fire.

As for China, we all know how it all happened, the whole world were pissed with them for not giving out information and the way they were able to contain it easily made the world to feel like they were the mastermind behind it all lol. Anyway, the future is one thing that no man can tell, we can only assume that something is going to happen based on what we are seeing at the moment, but things can still change at any moment.

Don't you think that there is something strange with this? China is where the virus first originated. And yet, they have reported less than 5,000 deaths. On the other hand, the United States has reported close to 600,000 deaths. Can anyone explain the reason for this difference? Is anyone going to argue that the healthcare system in China is much better when compared to that in the United States? Or is someone going to claim that the population density in the US is more than that in China?

Betwrong

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Quote from: geegaw on April 28, 2021, 09:49:43 AM

~I do not agree with your point of view, although the countries have mutual economic support through the export and import process but this process did not create too much development, the development came from competition, look at the crypto market, you can also see this process, most countries have specific products and cannot be copied by that country.

A healthy competition isn't going anywhere, and you are right, it helps economic development. I was rather talking about the unhealthy one, when one country(or a block of countries) desires to be ahead no matter what. If they can't grow economically, they are rooting for their adversaries to decline. This type of "competition" ended not so long ago, but fortunately for ever.

Quote from: geegaw on April 28, 2021, 09:49:43 AM

Moreover, the US is a fairly strong country in the military, the weapons are a very expensive brand and the US is very developed in this field, China is always difficult to surpass the US with current technology.

Absolutely agree with you on this one. Overall, any governmental propaganda telling their citizens they have better armed forces than the U.S. are just lying.

tbterryboy

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Quote from: bryant.coleman on April 28, 2021, 08:59:01 AM

Developing nations need loans and help from the richer nations and that is what China is doing now. And no one does anything for free, and it is applicable for the Western nations as well. When countries such as US and UK give out loans to poorer nations, they keep even more exploitative terms and conditions. Well.. these days they are not doing that, because they no longer have any surplus cash. Poorer countries in Africa and Asia view Chinese projects as mutually beneficial. The Chinese are helping them with large-scale infrastructure projects, which would otherwise be impossible to complete by these countries.

I can't talk on behalf of all the developing nations, I mean while they are building one thing, another thing is developed in the rich nations so they are always too late anyway but I can't talk for how good it is for them to at least reach to a certain level. However what I was trying to say is that neither USA nor China nor any other nation in the world does it for any good reason, they are not building stuff to make the world a better place, they are doing it so that they could get even richer and that's it, that is all there is about it.

If the only reason for USA, China or any other nation to help the others is to get themselves richer, that is sort of the colonist approach, maybe they are not taking slaves anymore but they are bringing stuff that is not a big problem for them and taking every last bit the other poorer nation have in return, all these super wealthy nations could afford to help the world to become great, but they are just caring about their money. Doesn't matter which one.

tygeade

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Okay, how sure are they about all that? Maybe the pandemic has been really bad and has caused a lot of things to happen and also pushed the US economy to a point where it’s low at this point, because they didn’t take a quick action to stop contain it before it became a wild fire.

As for China, we all know how it all happened, the whole world were pissed with them for not giving out information and the way they were able to contain it easily made the world to feel like they were the mastermind behind it all lol. Anyway, the future is one thing that no man can tell, we can only assume that something is going to happen based on what we are seeing at the moment, but things can still change at any moment.

capcaypro

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Just last year China's economic growth managed to accelerate to 2.3% in line with inhibiting the current virus, besides that I have read one article which said that China's economy last year was supported by the expansion in the fourth quarter of 2020 which grew 6,5 percent over the previous year.
This of course will be an attack on the world economy, especially for America itself, which incidentally is still a super power and reference in the global economy. because by continuing to accelerate the positive economy of China, it can indirectly make China's contribution to the world bank.
This of course can be a threat to America so that if America is still stagnant as it is now in 2028, China will displace them

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Quote from: Betwrong on April 28, 2021, 09:33:01 AM

Quote from: Sithara007 on April 26, 2021, 11:18:15 PM

Quote from: Mauser on April 26, 2021, 09:46:39 AM

No, why would they be? China is heavily depending on exports. Once they are getting close to surpass USA and Europe there will likely be a shift against cheap production from China. China can only grow if the world is helping them by buying their products. Once there is a harder stand against the expansionary foreign policy of china against their neighbours we will likely see lower growth rates.

China has paid special attention to the quality during the past decade. They are no longer solely dependent on producing the cheap products but there are brands such as Huawei and Xiaomi that are producing high quality and technologically advanced electronic products. They are now trying to ensure the quality for their products, while maintaining the affordability. Both are important. The vast majority of the world's population can't afford products from Japan or the US, because they are too expensive.

I don't know about Japan, but I believe the vast majority of U.S. residents are relying on Chinese products on a daily basis. And I agree, the notion that everything from China is of bad quality is outdated. BUT, I wouldn't go so far as saying that China could "overtake" the US or any other economy. With very rare exceptions, we are living in a big family now, and all big economies are interdependent. Economies are no longer competing, rather they are helping each other to grow.

I do not agree with your point of view, although the countries have mutual economic support through the export and import process but this process did not create too much development, the development came from competition, look at the crypto market, you can also see this process, most countries have specific products and cannot be copied by that country. Moreover, the US is a fairly strong country in the military, the weapons are a very expensive brand and the US is very developed in this field, China is always difficult to surpass the US with current technology.

Betwrong

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I stand with Ukraine.

Quote from: Sithara007 on April 26, 2021, 11:18:15 PM

Quote from: Mauser on April 26, 2021, 09:46:39 AM

No, why would they be? China is heavily depending on exports. Once they are getting close to surpass USA and Europe there will likely be a shift against cheap production from China. China can only grow if the world is helping them by buying their products. Once there is a harder stand against the expansionary foreign policy of china against their neighbours we will likely see lower growth rates.

China has paid special attention to the quality during the past decade. They are no longer solely dependent on producing the cheap products but there are brands such as Huawei and Xiaomi that are producing high quality and technologically advanced electronic products. They are now trying to ensure the quality for their products, while maintaining the affordability. Both are important. The vast majority of the world's population can't afford products from Japan or the US, because they are too expensive.

I don't know about Japan, but I believe the vast majority of U.S. residents are relying on Chinese products on a daily basis. And I agree, the notion that everything from China is of bad quality is outdated. BUT, I wouldn't go so far as saying that China could "overtake" the US or any other economy. With very rare exceptions, we are living in a big family now, and all big economies are interdependent. Economies are no longer competing, rather they are helping each other to grow.

bryant.coleman

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Quote from: bitgolden on April 27, 2021, 03:34:48 PM

Quote from: bryant.coleman on April 27, 2021, 01:17:28 AM

The difference is that China is spending its money on building various infrastructural projects all over the world, while the Western nations are wasting their money on useless wars and conflicts. For example, China has allotted a total of $900 billion for the new Silk Road initiative. On the other hand, the US spent $2 trillion on the war in Iraq alone. The government preferences are very different in both China and the US. Now the Westerners are just jealous that China has managed its money in a better way.

The difference is China is building stuff that will grow the nation because in the end the ones that will profit from it in the end will be CCP, remember every company in that nation is 50% owned by them, it is a dictatorship, which means if they spend 900 billion dollars for a new silk road and they make trillions of dollars from it, most of that money will go towards CCP anyway, so they are making themselves rich.

Developing nations need loans and help from the richer nations and that is what China is doing now. And no one does anything for free, and it is applicable for the Western nations as well. When countries such as US and UK give out loans to poorer nations, they keep even more exploitative terms and conditions. Well.. these days they are not doing that, because they no longer have any surplus cash. Poorer countries in Africa and Asia view Chinese projects as mutually beneficial. The Chinese are helping them with large-scale infrastructure projects, which would otherwise be impossible to complete by these countries.

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Quote from: bryant.coleman on April 27, 2021, 01:17:28 AM

The difference is that China is spending its money on building various infrastructural projects all over the world, while the Western nations are wasting their money on useless wars and conflicts. For example, China has allotted a total of $900 billion for the new Silk Road initiative. On the other hand, the US spent $2 trillion on the war in Iraq alone. The government preferences are very different in both China and the US. Now the Westerners are just jealous that China has managed its money in a better way.

The difference is China is building stuff that will grow the nation because in the end the ones that will profit from it in the end will be CCP, remember every company in that nation is 50% owned by them, it is a dictatorship, which means if they spend 900 billion dollars for a new silk road and they make trillions of dollars from it, most of that money will go towards CCP anyway, so they are making themselves rich.

This situation is not ideal, even though it helps certain people as well, not like ONLY one will be CCP, but it is mostly them, yet there will be some companies that will profit from it as well. Comparing it to USA that is not good neither, they spent 2 trillion on war in Iraq because politicians get votes and bribes, so they do what works for them, and that is why I think they are not spending on good of the people but good of rich people who bribes them. Both of them are not doing it for the good of the people, different scenarios, same outcome.

Koro-Sensei

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Quote from: carlisle1 on April 26, 2021, 09:39:27 AM

Quote from: Koro-Sensei on April 26, 2021, 09:23:03 AM

Quote from: Vishnu.Reang on April 25, 2021, 07:25:08 AM

Quote from: Koro-Sensei on April 25, 2021, 06:26:55 AM

-Snip-

And by that, these 3rd World Countries are slowly selling off their country. I saw this conspiracy theory where China is slowly invading the world by lending or even by having a transaction with them. However, United States is not doing great these days due to the fact that their citizens have too much democracy and that makes their country slowly falling apart.

Not conspiracy but strategy in terms of economical expansions. China's desire to reach the top is slowly showing great success.

Sooner or later we will notice that this competitions between this two giant will come face to face, the pride of US might be there but it will hard
now for them to show their supremacy as China really made it well and expand their capabilities.

Seems that not just economic but also in terms of military they are challenging US in the case of South China Sea.

And when that day comes, I believe that most humans will not survive. Bombs will probably be our breakfasts and nuclears reactions are our snacks. I feel bad for us 3rd country who have nothing else to do but to fight this giant China barehandedly or with swords. lol.

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Quote from: killerfrost on April 27, 2021, 12:50:51 AM

And now I see a lot of powerful people who have been commenting that the rise of the East, I fully support the arguments in the above article. Do not know if people learn about the upper silk road that China is building and there are many factors that show that they will rise strongly in the future, forecasting China's economic position will American replacement is an understandable thing.

The difference is that China is spending its money on building various infrastructural projects all over the world, while the Western nations are wasting their money on useless wars and conflicts. For example, China has allotted a total of $900 billion for the new Silk Road initiative. On the other hand, the US spent $2 trillion on the war in Iraq alone. The government preferences are very different in both China and the US. Now the Westerners are just jealous that China has managed its money in a better way.

killerfrost

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And now I see a lot of powerful people who have been commenting that the rise of the East, I fully support the arguments in the above article. Do not know if people learn about the upper silk road that China is building and there are many factors that show that they will rise strongly in the future, forecasting China's economic position will American replacement is an understandable thing.

Vishnu.Reang

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Quote from: target on April 26, 2021, 11:36:08 PM

I thought so too because popular financial individuals are often talking on TV about the spectacular growth of China's economy that they are ahead already. But one that they obviously agreed is that all products we have been buying now are from China and the technology they have is more advance. They even have their own version of Tesla cars.

Handling corona19 just made them ahead of time and have been developing the CBDC which they could contest the USD as currency reserve as they prophesized.

China has the perfect combination of zero red tape, affordable labor and low taxes. No other country has this combination. Take the case of US for example. The taxes are moderate, and red tape is absent. But the labor is very expensive. Now take the case of some country like India. Here the taxes are low, and the labor is more affordable when compared to China. But red tape is a major issue and the companies don't want to invest in that country because of this reason. This situation is unlikely to change in the next one or two decades.

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Quote from: palle11 on April 12, 2021, 09:46:21 AM

Quote from: Kittygalore on April 12, 2021, 05:39:54 AM

~

Which country are you fingering for human right violation? I don't expect you referring to America because they have a court system that check against that. We know America is referred to as the largest democratic national and that is because of her democratic structures.
On the other way too, the Chinese are really going into manufacturing in max and trying to conquer the market but K still don't see them taking over from American whose feet us already on the ground. They are leaving the memory of covid-19 behind as they giving aid to families which is good to restart the economy.

Well, both of them have a lot of human rights violation, let me list some of that I know from both sides. US is responsible for Nisour Square Massacre, Selling Cocaine to fund Contra Rebels in Nicaragua, Backing Dictators in a lot of countries because of Red Fear, Guantanamo Files, Chicago Blacksite and MK-Ultra. For China, Great Leap Forward that resulted to Famine, Tiananmen Square Massacre, Falun Gong Forced Organ Harvest, Uighur Concentration Camp and Great Firewall of China.

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Quote from: Mauser on April 26, 2021, 09:46:39 AM

Quote from: jayminho on April 26, 2021, 08:31:18 AM

isn't china #1 already ?

No, why would they be? China is heavily depending on exports. Once they are getting close to surpass USA and Europe there will likely be a shift against cheap production from China. China can only grow if the world is helping them by buying their products. Once there is a harder stand against the expansionary foreign policy of china against their neighbours we will likely see lower growth rates.

That is why this country has started to target third-world countries and the middle east (excluding India). Many arrangements have been made so as to increase the exports and also for future purposes. They see that the US international regulations and sanctions weakened them and force the allies to stop trading with China

They are looking for new markets in Africa and UAE, too. Russia remains its supporters for many years.

Even though I do not like China, I have to admit that they are really really good at controlling society with more than 2 billion citizens. There have been many achievements so far and the level of developments are outstanding

target

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Quote from: jackg on December 27, 2020, 09:24:43 AM

I thought China has already overtaken the US this year, or was that just projection? I thought US gdp was around $24tr and China around $28tr or something similar (but with the 4tr+ difference).

I've seen many notable projections also about China and Russia no longer being countries by 2028 (eg splitting due to war or civil differences) which is something I think we'll see a large pressure on a split at some point (especially in china).

I thought so too because popular financial individuals are often talking on TV about the spectacular growth of China's economy that they are ahead already. But one that they obviously agreed is that all products we have been buying now are from China and the technology they have is more advance. They even have their own version of Tesla cars.

Handling corona19 just made them ahead of time and have been developing the CBDC which they could contest the USD as currency reserve as they prophesized.

Topic: China to overtake the Us as the largest global economy by 2028? - page 2. (Read 986 times)