[CLOSED] BTC Guild - Pays TxFees+NMC, Stratum, VarDiff, Private Servers - page 255.

JimiQ84

sr. member

Activity: 406

Merit: 250

Quote from: kano on September 01, 2013, 07:27:56 PM

Quote from: SoggyLettuce on September 01, 2013, 06:30:40 PM

No that's terrible logic. If you don't make back your initial investment in btc you haven't ROI'd and would have been better off just buying and holding btc.

As I have pointed out elsewhere ... https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.3056704
If you got an AsicMinerUSB back on the 14-May ... up to today it would have so far made ... less than 0.9BTC (PPS mining expected value)
I'm pretty sure no one got them before the 14-May ...

I made up a little spreadsheet for the ones I have.
I got one for 0BTC on 13-May and 2 for 1.1BTC on 2-Aug

Total PPS mining expected BTC generated so far ... 1.2271313318BTC - 1.1BTC = 0.1271313318BTC
(the expected is a slight over estimate)

Hmm I think I let my time out for too cheap working on these AMUs - Total ~$12 for all the work I've done Cheesy

LOL

(Edit: and I ignored electricity cost)

You are still forgetting 0.1BTC coupons. Everyone who got USB miner for 1BTC and more, will get another one for 0.1BTC. Also USB miners will be profitable (with electricity at $0.15/kWh) until difficulty hits 3 BILLION, that's quite a few PETA hashes

eleuthria

legendary

Activity: 1750

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It's been said many times in the #btcguild chatroom. If you want to buy mining hardware that is actually shipping, you will not RoI, unless it's due to USD fluctuations. The only time it is valid to compare that way is if you are never going to hold BTC, you'll either sell at at today's rates, or buy something with it. In that case, your RoI target would be equal to the opportunity cost (Current USD Rate).

You just have to think logically. Any company that is making a chip that has the sole purpose of printing money would be stupid to sell it for less than how much it will make, assuming the product is already developed and in production. The only time you would expect major RoI is if it is a pre-order in a product that is not yet developed. In that case, the company needs the capital to develop and produce the chips, and will gladly sell it for under the RoI value because without the pre-order money it will never get made.

buyer99

member

Activity: 81

Merit: 10

So then what hardware? Or should everyone just forget trying to mine for a BTC profit ever again?

With the latest round of coupons my average price per unit is down near .3... Seems like I might actually squeak out a a lil profit in a month or so.. Certainly will happen slowly, but we all knew the difficulty was primed to skyrocket. As it most certainly is. 100m coming very soon. Anyone thinking about swapping oscillators/resistors/heatsinks to pull a little more out of the erupters? Very cheap to get the parts.... Other than maybe the new blades at 4 in group buys, what other options are there for hardware?

Trongersoll

hero member

Activity: 490

Merit: 501

Um... Kano, i don't get you. you maintain the most popular mining software there is, for free. Yet you deride the people who use your software for making poor hardware decissions at a time when there are no good hardware decissions due to prepoderance of people willing to spend too much money on mining. Do you mine or just develop the software needed to do it. You confuse me.

kano

legendary

Activity: 4592

Merit: 1851

Linux since 1997 RedHat 4

Quote from: mdude77 on September 01, 2013, 07:10:13 PM

Quote from: SoggyLettuce on September 01, 2013, 06:30:40 PM

No that's terrible logic. If you don't make back your initial investment in btc you haven't ROI'd and would have been better off just buying and holding btc.

Except ... there isn't much I can do with BTC. Until it becomes mainstream, I look at as the value of the USD equivalent, not the BTC. After all, I can't pay the electric bill with BTC.

M

But the problem with that is that you need to put in X BTC to buy the AMUs
Then your PPS expected return will (extremely likely) be less than X BTC coming back.
So the actual value of BTC isn't relevant.
If you simply keep the BTC and then convert it when you think is best, you will get more $ since you have more BTC than mining with them.

kano

legendary

Activity: 4592

Merit: 1851

Linux since 1997 RedHat 4

Quote from: SoggyLettuce on September 01, 2013, 06:30:40 PM

No that's terrible logic. If you don't make back your initial investment in btc you haven't ROI'd and would have been better off just buying and holding btc.

As I have pointed out elsewhere ... https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.3056704
If you got an AsicMinerUSB back on the 14-May ... up to today it would have so far made ... less than 0.9BTC (PPS mining expected value)
I'm pretty sure no one got them before the 14-May ...

I made up a little spreadsheet for the ones I have.
I got one for 0BTC on 13-May and 2 for 1.1BTC on 2-Aug

Total PPS mining expected BTC generated so far ... 1.2271313318BTC - 1.1BTC = 0.1271313318BTC
(the expected is a slight over estimate)

Hmm I think I let my time out for too cheap working on these AMUs - Total ~$12 for all the work I've done Cheesy

LOL

(Edit: and I ignored electricity cost)

mdude77

legendary

Activity: 1540

Merit: 1001

Quote from: SoggyLettuce on September 01, 2013, 07:16:04 PM

So by your logic if I think btc will eventually reach 10,000 usd it would make sense to buy a miner for 69btc now that will only ever make 1btc in it's lifetime?

If it was 100% guaranteed, hell yes!

I'm also not one to buy BTC.

M

SoggyLettuce

full member

Activity: 238

Merit: 100

So by your logic if I think btc will eventually reach 10,000 usd it would make sense to buy a miner for 69btc now that will only ever make 1btc in it's lifetime?

mdude77

legendary

Activity: 1540

Merit: 1001

Quote from: SoggyLettuce on September 01, 2013, 06:30:40 PM

No that's terrible logic. If you don't make back your initial investment in btc you haven't ROI'd and would have been better off just buying and holding btc.

Except ... there isn't much I can do with BTC. Until it becomes mainstream, I look at as the value of the USD equivalent, not the BTC. After all, I can't pay the electric bill with BTC.

M

Trongersoll

hero member

Activity: 490

Merit: 501

Quote from: SoggyLettuce on September 01, 2013, 06:30:40 PM

No that's terrible logic. If you don't make back your initial investment in btc you haven't ROI'd and would have been better off just buying and holding btc.

But mining is more fun than trying to anticipate market values. Grin

SoggyLettuce

full member

Activity: 238

Merit: 100

No that's terrible logic. If you don't make back your initial investment in btc you haven't ROI'd and would have been better off just buying and holding btc.

mdude77

legendary

Activity: 1540

Merit: 1001

Quote from: Trongersoll on September 01, 2013, 05:46:10 PM

Quote from: SoggyLettuce on September 01, 2013, 05:20:10 PM

At this point I was hoping the resellers would be transparent with us. I get that the markup on btcguild is for the convenience but Friedcat mentioned a lowered price today with no details of the price. Since he hasn't responded I had hoped that the resellers could fill us in on this. I have bought from btcguild in the past and it was great. All I wanted was a hobby miner with no hassle. Now that they are getting cheaper and could have some sort of ROI possibility I am opting to go the group buy route and was hoping eleuthria could help me figure out if I was getting screwed.

Again I get that best buy wouldn't tell you directly how much they pay for their products but that information is available to the public. Freidcat has not made this information available and it looks like he simply forgot to include it in his post. All I was hoping for was a solid from the owner of the pool I mine at.

At the rate the global hashrate is increasing, I'd be surprised if Free showed ROI. Don't get me wrong, i have 50 of these hashing away, but i suspect that these little guys are going the way of GPUs rapidly.

Fortunately there's more than difficulty involved in determining ROI. The value of BTC keeps climbing. With low electric usage, there's still a good chance we'll get out money back.

M

Trongersoll

hero member

Activity: 490

Merit: 501

Quote from: SoggyLettuce on September 01, 2013, 05:20:10 PM

At this point I was hoping the resellers would be transparent with us. I get that the markup on btcguild is for the convenience but Friedcat mentioned a lowered price today with no details of the price. Since he hasn't responded I had hoped that the resellers could fill us in on this. I have bought from btcguild in the past and it was great. All I wanted was a hobby miner with no hassle. Now that they are getting cheaper and could have some sort of ROI possibility I am opting to go the group buy route and was hoping eleuthria could help me figure out if I was getting screwed.

Again I get that best buy wouldn't tell you directly how much they pay for their products but that information is available to the public. Freidcat has not made this information available and it looks like he simply forgot to include it in his post. All I was hoping for was a solid from the owner of the pool I mine at.

At the rate the global hashrate is increasing, I'd be surprised if Free showed ROI. Don't get me wrong, i have 50 of these hashing away, but i suspect that these little guys are going the way of GPUs rapidly.

SoggyLettuce

full member

Activity: 238

Merit: 100

At this point I was hoping the resellers would be transparent with us. I get that the markup on btcguild is for the convenience but Friedcat mentioned a lowered price today with no details of the price. Since he hasn't responded I had hoped that the resellers could fill us in on this. I have bought from btcguild in the past and it was great. All I wanted was a hobby miner with no hassle. Now that they are getting cheaper and could have some sort of ROI possibility I am opting to go the group buy route and was hoping eleuthria could help me figure out if I was getting screwed.

Again I get that best buy wouldn't tell you directly how much they pay for their products but that information is available to the public. Freidcat has not made this information available and it looks like he simply forgot to include it in his post. All I was hoping for was a solid from the owner of the pool I mine at.

Trongersoll

hero member

Activity: 490

Merit: 501

Quote from: SoggyLettuce on September 01, 2013, 04:57:50 PM

Quote from: eleuthria on September 01, 2013, 01:35:08 PM

Quote from: SoggyLettuce on September 01, 2013, 01:01:35 PM

Hey eleuthria,

Earlier today friedcat made an announcement on the erupters having a price drop but he forgot to actually include the new price. I was wondering if you could share how much he is selling them for so I can see if I am getting screwed in the groupbuy I am in. I understand your model is based on convenience and quick shipping times so it demands a higher premium I just want to know if the wait and effort I am putting into the groupbuy is worth it. It would be great if you could let me know in either a pm or reply on here.

I've seen nothing on yet another price drop since I dropped mine last week. There will be an extension of the coupon program to the remaining 70% of 1BTC/unit orders that didn't receive a coupon previously. These coupon units have been received, but the coupons will not show up on the BTC Guild store until Tuesday due to the holiday weekend.

Currently working remotely today and part of tomorrow to take my first "vacation" (hard to call it that with 3 phones, 2 laptops, and a tablet), so I decided to delay distributing the coupon promotion until I'm able to give it my full promotion. They can't be shipped due to the weekend anyways.

Thanks but that didn't really answer my question. All I'm asking is what probably should be public knowledge already but for some reason isn't. How much are the retailers currently ordering block erupters for?

If you walked into Best Buy and asked them how much they pay for the various things they sell, would they tell you?

SoggyLettuce

full member

Activity: 238

Merit: 100

Quote from: eleuthria on September 01, 2013, 01:35:08 PM

Quote from: SoggyLettuce on September 01, 2013, 01:01:35 PM

Hey eleuthria,

Earlier today friedcat made an announcement on the erupters having a price drop but he forgot to actually include the new price. I was wondering if you could share how much he is selling them for so I can see if I am getting screwed in the groupbuy I am in. I understand your model is based on convenience and quick shipping times so it demands a higher premium I just want to know if the wait and effort I am putting into the groupbuy is worth it. It would be great if you could let me know in either a pm or reply on here.

I've seen nothing on yet another price drop since I dropped mine last week. There will be an extension of the coupon program to the remaining 70% of 1BTC/unit orders that didn't receive a coupon previously. These coupon units have been received, but the coupons will not show up on the BTC Guild store until Tuesday due to the holiday weekend.

Currently working remotely today and part of tomorrow to take my first "vacation" (hard to call it that with 3 phones, 2 laptops, and a tablet), so I decided to delay distributing the coupon promotion until I'm able to give it my full promotion. They can't be shipped due to the weekend anyways.

Thanks but that didn't really answer my question. All I'm asking is what probably should be public knowledge already but for some reason isn't. How much are the retailers currently ordering block erupters for?

eleuthria

legendary

Activity: 1750

Merit: 1007

Quote from: SoggyLettuce on September 01, 2013, 01:01:35 PM

Hey eleuthria,

Earlier today friedcat made an announcement on the erupters having a price drop but he forgot to actually include the new price. I was wondering if you could share how much he is selling them for so I can see if I am getting screwed in the groupbuy I am in. I understand your model is based on convenience and quick shipping times so it demands a higher premium I just want to know if the wait and effort I am putting into the groupbuy is worth it. It would be great if you could let me know in either a pm or reply on here.

I've seen nothing on yet another price drop since I dropped mine last week. There will be an extension of the coupon program to the remaining 70% of 1BTC/unit orders that didn't receive a coupon previously. These coupon units have been received, but the coupons will not show up on the BTC Guild store until Tuesday due to the holiday weekend.

Currently working remotely today and part of tomorrow to take my first "vacation" (hard to call it that with 3 phones, 2 laptops, and a tablet), so I decided to delay distributing the coupon promotion until I'm able to give it my full promotion. They can't be shipped due to the weekend anyways.

SoggyLettuce

full member

Activity: 238

Merit: 100

Hey eleuthria,

Earlier today friedcat made an announcement on the erupters having a price drop but he forgot to actually include the new price. I was wondering if you could share how much he is selling them for so I can see if I am getting screwed in the groupbuy I am in. I understand your model is based on convenience and quick shipping times so it demands a higher premium I just want to know if the wait and effort I am putting into the groupbuy is worth it. It would be great if you could let me know in either a pm or reply on here.

navigator

sr. member

Activity: 362

Merit: 250