(Closed) Butter Bot!: Premier Bitstamp, and BTC-E EMA Trading Platform (Closed) - page 61.

fible1

legendary

Activity: 1183

Merit: 1000

Quote from: NginUS on November 11, 2013, 08:57:03 PM

I'm using BTC-e. How do I obtain the logs?

1. Go into the "manage extensions" page.
2. Enable "developer" mode by checking the "developer" box in the upper tool bar.
3. Go to the extension and click on the "generated_background_page.html" link.
4. When the new window opens, choose the "console tab"
5. Copy and paste the info there to pastebin.com as close to the time of your issue as possible and send it to me.

And:

1. In the developer tools open the network tab.
2. If it's empty, press F5 to reload the extension and wait a few minutes until there are some requests listed.
3 Then right-click the list in the left pane and select
"Save as HAR with content".

Please scan the file and remove your API Key from the text and send it to us.

This will help us resolve your issue much more quickly.

Pablo.

NginUS

full member

Activity: 190

Merit: 100

I'm using BTC-e. How do I obtain the logs?

fible1

legendary

Activity: 1183

Merit: 1000

Quote from: NginUS on November 11, 2013, 08:51:32 PM

Yesterday & today my bot made some trades that for the first time, yielded enough profit that the bot has finally paid for itself.

I have a question, though.

All day the bot has been making many, small buys at around $320, and earlier this morning it made a couple at $306. My question is, why didn't the bot buy all it could at $306 when it had the chance? Why all the little buys all day at the higher price? It eats at profits.

Please advise.

Thank you.

Ngin,
Are you using Bitstamp by any chance?

If you are it has to do with the way their API works. Either way I would be interested to see your logs, could you send them over to me?

Pablo.

NginUS

full member

Activity: 190

Merit: 100

Yesterday & today my bot made some trades that for the first time, yielded enough profit that the bot has finally paid for itself.

I have a question, though.

All day the bot has been making many, small buys at around $320, and earlier this morning it made a couple at $306. My question is, why didn't the bot buy all it could at $306 when it had the chance? Why all the little buys all day at the higher price? It eats at profits.

Please advise.

Thank you.

fible1

legendary

Activity: 1183

Merit: 1000

Hey Guys

,
To the Home Team: I feel like this argument is a bit out of hand; both sides have exposed there points of view (over a couple of days), I am not going to make a judgement call, of course I am on the side of the majority, because I use the system and have found it profitable but I feel like we should avoid the fight. If our visitors feel that our evidence is not enough and that they are right then we should welcome the new point of view.

To our visitors: We welcome your opinions, but I feel we are getting to the point of "I'm right and that's all there is to it," a lot of evidence (now and over 1000 posts) and more importantly, personal experience, has been presented here. If you have any suggestions for how we can improve our trading algorithm or our service, please post them publicly, we don't claim to be perfect, we are happy to improve. If you need anything at all, please just drop me an email at [email protected], I will be happy to take care of you.

I hope we can end this argument here and all go home friends

.

Pablo.

jbssm

member

Activity: 71

Merit: 10

Quote from: velacreations on November 11, 2013, 07:37:07 PM

Quote from: jbssm on November 11, 2013, 07:14:46 PM

This bot may be a good thing in case of a market crash in order to cut your losses... but in an upward market - and I think most of the bitcoin adopters believe that is the tendency of the market - this bot will make loose part of your BTC. If you so adamantly state otherwise, then actually show some settings that at least work for most of the time frames.

could you share a strategy or algorithm that works for most time frames?

No, because they either don't exist, or if they do they are not public... otherwise everyone would be a millionaire.

In any case, that is not the issue I was trying to bring, I think the issue was very clearly stated: This bot will make you loose your BTC value and the only reason it's increasing your USD value is because the market has an upward tendency. Any cherry picked settings you put in the bot, will make you loose money (in BTC) in most of the time frames, even if in 1 or 2 they actually increase your BTC capitalization.

If you state otherwise, please show us the values that support your claim.

velacreations

sr. member

Activity: 476

Merit: 250

Quote from: jbssm on November 11, 2013, 07:14:46 PM

This bot may be a good thing in case of a market crash in order to cut your losses... but in an upward market - and I think most of the bitcoin adopters believe that is the tendency of the market - this bot will make loose part of your BTC. If you so adamantly state otherwise, then actually show some settings that at least work for most of the time frames.

could you share a strategy or algorithm that works for most time frames?

jbssm

member

Activity: 71

Merit: 10

Quote from: seanrarey on November 11, 2013, 07:33:00 PM

Quote from: Narken on November 11, 2013, 06:58:05 PM

No offense, but you seem to be the one trolling and confused in this case :-)

The numbers for the past 2 years are available when backlog testing. Do the math yourself and calculate your BTC gain in %

Past 6 months seems to yield a ~ 20-25 % increase in BTC compared to starting point.
That 1 BTC you set aside for trading would increase to 1.20 BTC (with some luck and the right settings) based on last 6 months trading history
(compared to buy and hold)

Sure it's a nice gain, 20% over 6 months is epic compared to current bank rates atm, but please dont confuse people by telling them they will see XXX % profit when it's not true

Over and out, have fun

Offense taken.

Please point out where I have ever told someone they will "see XXX % profit when it's not true?"

Quote from: seanrarey

If trade history holds, you should have more then 1 BTC in your trade account. Probably a lot more.

seanrarey

full member

Activity: 168

Merit: 100

BuyAnythingWithBitcoin.com

Quote from: Narken on November 11, 2013, 06:58:05 PM

No offense, but you seem to be the one trolling and confused in this case :-)

The numbers for the past 2 years are available when backlog testing. Do the math yourself and calculate your BTC gain in %

Past 6 months seems to yield a ~ 20-25 % increase in BTC compared to starting point.
That 1 BTC you set aside for trading would increase to 1.20 BTC (with some luck and the right settings) based on last 6 months trading history
(compared to buy and hold)

Sure it's a nice gain, 20% over 6 months is epic compared to current bank rates atm, but please dont confuse people by telling them they will see XXX % profit when it's not true

Over and out, have fun

Offense taken.

Please point out where I have ever told someone they will "see XXX % profit when it's not true?"

jbssm

member

Activity: 71

Merit: 10

Quote from: Narken on November 11, 2013, 06:58:05 PM

Quote from: seanrarey on November 11, 2013, 06:32:56 PM

Quote from: velacreations on November 11, 2013, 04:51:56 PM

Quote from: Narken on November 11, 2013, 03:13:50 PM

Also I like like to see any setting that would yield a profit in BTC
On all the calculations / back testing I've been so far, buy and hold would yield a higher profit, but fell free to prove me wrong through

I thought that at first, too. But, I started looking at longer timelines that included more than just big increases, and the picture changes in favor of this vs B&H.

6 months ago, $1000 bought you 8.85 bitcoins. Those are worth about ~$2830 today.
running the bot with small adjustments, you get a value of $3418, or 10.7 btc.

It would help to see total btc in the ledger, as well

I tire of responding to that argument, so I was waiting for someone else to do it. Thanks.

An easy test folks is this:

Put 1 BTC in a wallet.

Put 1 BTC in a trade account (preferably BTCe lol) and let Butter manage it with reasonable settings.

In 6 months, revisit.

You should still have 1 BTC in the wallet. I am betting it will be worth a lot more then when you put it in there.

If trade history holds, you should have more then 1 BTC in your trade account. Probably a lot more. And yes, it will be worth more in USD then the 1BTC in the wallet.

This forum has not been too bad, but some forums (mining is really bad) are just filled with trolls trying to confuse.

I would hope that this forum would not fall into the endless debates and opinions, when the math is really too simple to even go there.

As with any responsible investing and trading, do your homework, keep records, and ignore the trolls that will argue for days on end that 1. bots drive the market (not the other way around), 2. 100 $1 trades rack up less fees then a $100 trade (you would be amazed at how vehemently they will argue this) and 3. a Bitcoin purchased from them and held is somehow worth more then one you mined or traded for.

Cheesy

No offense, but you seem to be the one trolling and confused in this case :-)

The numbers for the past 2 years are available when backlog testing. Do the math yourself and calculate your BTC gain in %

Past 6 months seems to yield a ~ 20-25 % increase in BTC compared to starting point.
That 1 BTC you set aside for trading would increase to 1.20 BTC (with some luck and the right settings) based on last 6 months trading history
(compared to buy and hold)

Sure it's a nice gain, 20% over 6 months is epic compared to current bank rates atm, but please dont confuse people by telling them they will see XXX % profit when it's not true

Over and out, have fun

I think it's event a bit worst than that.

The algorithm uses an MA that is much shorter than any testing period. As such it's irrelevant if you are using test data for 1 month/1 year/etc, if it works in one time frame it's supposed to work in all time frames.
Sure, you can fine tune some past data to give profit, but that's already wrong by itself... worst, when even by fine tuning the past data you cannot provide some settings that actually work for different time frames, then it's because that thing doesn't exist, at least not with the algorithms used by this bot.

This bot may be a good thing in case of a market crash in order to cut your losses... but in an upward market - and I think most of the bitcoin adopters believe that is the tendency of the market - this bot will make loose part of your BTC. If you so adamantly state otherwise, then actually show some settings that at least work for most of the time frames.

velacreations

sr. member

Activity: 476

Merit: 250

Quote from: Narken on November 11, 2013, 06:58:05 PM

Do the math yourself and calculate your BTC gain in %

I'm not trying to argue, but my example above for 1 yr had 25.9 btc vs 9.26 B&H. That's like a 178% difference.
To me, that's significant, if it can be replicated (or even approached).

I do think that during a rise, the bot doesn't help you, but during a crash, it seems to help. Within the last yr, we've had some decent downturns, but 6 months back, not so many. I would have a lot more btc today if I could have played the April volatility better than B&H (my strategy during that time).

The profit figures on the site are realized gains compared to starting income, not compared to B&H. I'd love to put together a catalog of settings/configurations that outperformed B&H for the last year. Anyone want to compare settings?

Narken

member

Activity: 112

Merit: 10

Quote from: seanrarey on November 11, 2013, 06:32:56 PM

Quote from: velacreations on November 11, 2013, 04:51:56 PM

Quote from: Narken on November 11, 2013, 03:13:50 PM

Also I like like to see any setting that would yield a profit in BTC
On all the calculations / back testing I've been so far, buy and hold would yield a higher profit, but fell free to prove me wrong through

I thought that at first, too. But, I started looking at longer timelines that included more than just big increases, and the picture changes in favor of this vs B&H.

6 months ago, $1000 bought you 8.85 bitcoins. Those are worth about ~$2830 today.
running the bot with small adjustments, you get a value of $3418, or 10.7 btc.

It would help to see total btc in the ledger, as well

I tire of responding to that argument, so I was waiting for someone else to do it. Thanks.

An easy test folks is this:

Put 1 BTC in a wallet.

Put 1 BTC in a trade account (preferably BTCe lol) and let Butter manage it with reasonable settings.

In 6 months, revisit.

You should still have 1 BTC in the wallet. I am betting it will be worth a lot more then when you put it in there.

If trade history holds, you should have more then 1 BTC in your trade account. Probably a lot more. And yes, it will be worth more in USD then the 1BTC in the wallet.

This forum has not been too bad, but some forums (mining is really bad) are just filled with trolls trying to confuse.

I would hope that this forum would not fall into the endless debates and opinions, when the math is really too simple to even go there.

As with any responsible investing and trading, do your homework, keep records, and ignore the trolls that will argue for days on end that 1. bots drive the market (not the other way around), 2. 100 $1 trades rack up less fees then a $100 trade (you would be amazed at how vehemently they will argue this) and 3. a Bitcoin purchased from them and held is somehow worth more then one you mined or traded for.

Cheesy

No offense, but you seem to be the one trolling and confused in this case :-)

The numbers for the past 2 years are available when backlog testing. Do the math yourself and calculate your BTC gain in %

Past 6 months seems to yield a ~ 20-25 % increase in BTC compared to starting point.
That 1 BTC you set aside for trading would increase to 1.20 BTC (with some luck and the right settings) based on last 6 months trading history
(compared to buy and hold)

Sure it's a nice gain, 20% over 6 months is epic compared to current bank rates atm, but please dont confuse people by telling them they will see XXX % profit when it's not true

Over and out, have fun

velacreations

sr. member

Activity: 476

Merit: 250

a question, cause I'm a super newbie, the value in the table below the test, the very last line is often in the past (as with mine posted above), does the profit value count just realized profit to that point?

like in my example above, it shows a buy @309 = 8009, right? But, if btc current value is $320, there is unrealized profit to consider as well, right? So the assumed actual value would be higher (25.9 btc @$320 =$8294).

In other words, when comparing to buy and hold, buy and hold value must stop at the last action of the backtest to be equal.
Am I right, or does the profit figure consider latest price?

velacreations

sr. member

Activity: 476

Merit: 250

Quote from: Narken on November 11, 2013, 05:56:25 PM

Please show the settings for 8500% profit over 1 year

here's one set that comes close, you can fine tune it to get higher:

seanrarey

full member

Activity: 168

Merit: 100

BuyAnythingWithBitcoin.com

Quote from: velacreations on November 11, 2013, 04:51:56 PM

Quote from: Narken on November 11, 2013, 03:13:50 PM

Also I like like to see any setting that would yield a profit in BTC
On all the calculations / back testing I've been so far, buy and hold would yield a higher profit, but fell free to prove me wrong through

I thought that at first, too. But, I started looking at longer timelines that included more than just big increases, and the picture changes in favor of this vs B&H.

6 months ago, $1000 bought you 8.85 bitcoins. Those are worth about ~$2830 today.
running the bot with small adjustments, you get a value of $3418, or 10.7 btc.

It would help to see total btc in the ledger, as well

I tire of responding to that argument, so I was waiting for someone else to do it. Thanks.

An easy test folks is this:

Put 1 BTC in a wallet.

Put 1 BTC in a trade account (preferably BTCe lol) and let Butter manage it with reasonable settings.

In 6 months, revisit.

You should still have 1 BTC in the wallet. I am betting it will be worth a lot more then when you put it in there.

If trade history holds, you should have more then 1 BTC in your trade account. Probably a lot more. And yes, it will be worth more in USD then the 1BTC in the wallet.

This forum has not been too bad, but some forums (mining is really bad) are just filled with trolls trying to confuse.

I would hope that this forum would not fall into the endless debates and opinions, when the math is really too simple to even go there.

As with any responsible investing and trading, do your homework, keep records, and ignore the trolls that will argue for days on end that 1. bots drive the market (not the other way around), 2. 100 $1 trades rack up less fees then a $100 trade (you would be amazed at how vehemently they will argue this) and 3. a Bitcoin purchased from them and held is somehow worth more then one you mined or traded for.

Cheesy

PuertoLibre

legendary

Activity: 1890

Merit: 1003

Quote from: fible1 on November 11, 2013, 06:09:05 PM

Quote from: bassclef on November 11, 2013, 06:02:07 PM

One must subtract the price appreciation of bitcoin itself from the numbers that back testing gives to get a more realistic view of potential profits. I agree that it's a very close call versus buy and hold.

Friends,
We just released a fix via Mass Mail for the email issue labeled 2.4.1

I want to personally apologize for the inconveniences these past two days, we have taken strong measures to prevent this from recurring in the future.

Please do not hesitate to let me know if anyone needs anything at all

.

Pablo.

Oops, I just noticed the bug creeping up again and I sent you a PM (v2.4) with the console logs and relevant settings. No email was dispatched during the buy event.

fible1

legendary

Activity: 1183

Merit: 1000

Quote from: bassclef on November 11, 2013, 06:02:07 PM

One must subtract the price appreciation of bitcoin itself from the numbers that back testing gives to get a more realistic view of potential profits. I agree that it's a very close call versus buy and hold.

Friends,
We just released a fix via Mass Mail for the email issue labeled 2.4.1

I want to personally apologize for the inconveniences these past two days, we have taken strong measures to prevent this from recurring in the future.

Please do not hesitate to let me know if anyone needs anything at all

.

Pablo.

bassclef

hero member

Activity: 924

Merit: 1000

One must subtract the price appreciation of bitcoin itself from the numbers that back testing gives to get a more realistic view of potential profits. I agree that it's a very close call versus buy and hold.

Narken

member

Activity: 112

Merit: 10

Quote from: velacreations on November 11, 2013, 05:18:41 PM

Quote from: Narken on November 11, 2013, 05:13:01 PM

So an actual potential profit on 21% (BTC) over the past 6 months

And that profit is only on this weekends crash or ?

Anyway you proved me wrong then, but it's not the profit figures the sales letter is claiming nevertheless

yeah, basic settings, if you go back a year, it's even more.
I've seen it back test 1 yr at 8500%.

I'm just saying, if you back test for a month, you don't get the whole picture.

Please show the settings for 8500% profit over 1 year

Little calculation:

Backtesting 1 year with Gox I hit max around 3550% claimed profit

So buying for $1000 BTC @ $10.8 1 year ago = 92,6 BTC

Current value of 92.6 btc today if I just kept them safe (370) = $34259

Butterbot results after 1 year $35500 = 95,95 BTC

Actual profit in BTC after 1 year after using BB = 3,346 BTC = $1240 = 124% in profit

Still a nice profit compared to buy and hold, but long away from claimed profit on buttterbot homepage (3464% profit over the last two years claimed on the on site)

So Correct actual profit in BTC over past year would be around 120% compared to just buy and hold

velacreations

sr. member

Activity: 476

Merit: 250

Quote from: Narken on November 11, 2013, 05:13:01 PM

So an actual potential profit on 21% (BTC) over the past 6 months

And that profit is only on this weekends crash or ?

Anyway you proved me wrong then, but it's not the profit figures the sales letter is claiming nevertheless

yeah, basic settings, if you go back a year, it's even more.
I've seen it back test 1 yr at 8500%.

I'm just saying, if you back test for a month, you don't get the whole picture.

Topic: (Closed) Butter Bot!: Premier Bitstamp, and BTC-E EMA Trading Platform (Closed) - page 61. (Read 274784 times)