[CLOSED] S.DICE - SatoshiDICE 100% Dividend-Paying Asset on MPEx - page 89.

zebedee

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Quote from: EskimoBob on August 27, 2012, 08:30:23 AM

Quote from: freeAgent on August 27, 2012, 07:38:24 AM

It's already specified that the shares offered in this IPO have no voting rights. Even if the shares had voting rights, evoorhees is only offering 10% of the company ownership to the public, so it wouldn't matter either way. All you're buying with these shares is a non-guaranteed revenue stream.

You are correct. 10% vote can never win 90% and this was pointless clause.
I guess those shares offered are not the same shares what Evoorhees owns at the moment. In this case, are those a new issue of stock and issued by SD for the IPO.
Can someone clear this up a bit?

Bob - The whole thing seems more of a gentleman's agreement than something solid from the investor's POV. From the seller's POV it's a sweet deal for sure.

Which IMO means another 50% discount should be demanded.

Quite why anyone would be happy with the terms, given what their legal and contractual exposure, and expected returns might be, (and post a 20 BTC arrogance tax!), is surprising indeed. I may be missing something though....

The proof is in the pudding and I look forward to its baking. A bit of sugar might be nice Tongue

zebedee

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Quote from: EskimoBob on August 26, 2012, 02:22:48 PM

reason I am asking is simple: What happens to your pass through?
You are going to dump another 3 million shares @ 0.0037 btc on Aug 26, Midnight GMT, while you still have 26767 available @ 0.0034.

I see 66000 now Shocked

Wanna buy 100? It might go up, you know? Just gotta find another 65,900 buyers before it has a chance. Wink

EskimoBob

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Quote from: freeAgent on August 27, 2012, 07:38:24 AM

It's already specified that the shares offered in this IPO have no voting rights. Even if the shares had voting rights, evoorhees is only offering 10% of the company ownership to the public, so it wouldn't matter either way. All you're buying with these shares is a non-guaranteed revenue stream.

You are correct. 10% vote can never win 90% and this was pointless clause.
I guess those shares offered are not the same shares what Evoorhees owns at the moment. In this case, are those a new issue of stock and issued by SD for the IPO.
Can someone clear this up a bit?

Coincomm

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Quote from: misterbigg on August 27, 2012, 08:26:22 AM

So can we call this IPO a flop yet or what? I see only the first batch of shares sold (almost).

No. MPEX takes a 20BTC fee to register and it's 9AM or less in America.

...it's also Monday.

misterbigg

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So can we call this IPO a flop yet or what? I see only the first batch of shares sold (almost).

freeAgent

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Quote from: EskimoBob on August 27, 2012, 02:56:34 AM

Actually it is a biggie to you and not for the investors.
If you do not buy those shares personally from the IPO, you can not get the dividends. As simple as that.
If part of the IPO is not sold out, shares will be "bought back" or more like held by the company (not you as a person) and those shares become so called treasury stock. Treasury stock will be excluded form dividend payments and have no voting right etc and are not part of the SD equity (in your balance sheet).
Option #2 is, you cancel the left over shares and by that you reduce the number of the total outstanding shares.
Option #3 You cancel the whole issue and return the money to IPO participants at the price they bought the shares.
Like I mentioned before, you got greedy

and this moron, who advised you on your IPO, has no idea what he is doing or did.

It's already specified that the shares offered in this IPO have no voting rights. Even if the shares had voting rights, evoorhees is only offering 10% of the company ownership to the public, so it wouldn't matter either way. All you're buying with these shares is a non-guaranteed revenue stream.

EskimoBob

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Quote from: FreeMoney on August 27, 2012, 04:43:50 AM

He already owns them, it makes no difference if he pays himself or not.

Yes, you are correct, if the share sold in this IPO are not sold by SatoshiDICE, but by sole owner evoorhees.
In this case, no money is going to SD at all.
For some reason, I was under the impression, that the IPO (initial public offering) is organised by SD.
Lets not confuse the company and the owner of the company. Those are considered 2 separate entities.

FreeMoney

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Quote from: EskimoBob on August 27, 2012, 02:56:34 AM

Quote from: evoorhees on August 27, 2012, 12:33:30 AM

Quote from: cedus on August 26, 2012, 07:22:30 PM

Quote from: evoorhees on August 21, 2012, 02:39:57 PM

So it is thus accurate to say that I prefer 32k BTC instead of 10% of SatoshiDICE, but I would not prefer 15k BTC instead of 10% of SatoshiDICE. My investment preference only shifts to the BTC at the 32k for 10% exchange rate. Further, I wouldn’t sell another 10% for an additional 32k btc, for at that margin my preference shifts back to SD.

If some portion of the Bitcoin investment world has a matching inverse time preference to to mine, and is thus willing to pay 32k BTC for 10% of SD, then we all have a deal and the exchange is made. Otherwise, my exchange preference and that of the market do not align, and we continue on as we were.

Are you planning to call off this IPO since the second tranche is practically untouched after 24 hrs and the third one should also be released by any moment now? Seems like your conditions above (emphasis mine) are not going to be met.

What price you're going to use when buying back shares? I mean, if someone is now buying in for .0034 and then you decide to cancel the IPO and buy back for .0032 there's immediate 6% loss (plus possible MPEx/GLBSE fees etc). Didn't find a clause for this when glancing over the conditions.

No intention of "calling off" anything. If shares don't get bought, then I get to keep the dividends to myself. No biggie.

Actually it is a biggie to you and not for the investors.
If you do not buy those shares personally from the IPO, you can not get the dividends. As simple as that.
If part of the IPO is not sold out, shares will be "bought back" or more like held by the company (not you as a person) and those shares become so called treasury stock. Treasury stock will be excluded form dividend payments and have no voting right etc and are not part of the SD equity (in your balance sheet).
Option #2 is, you cancel the left over shares and by that you reduce the number of the total outstanding shares.
Option #3 You cancel the whole issue and return the money to IPO participants at the price they bought the shares.
Like I mentioned before, you got greedy

and this moron, who advised you on your IPO, has no idea what he is doing or did.

He already owns them, it makes no difference if he pays himself or not.

Bitcoin Oz

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Wat

if you only sell 6% of the company then only 6% of profits will be paid as dividends ?

EskimoBob

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come to think of it, you actually have added "Free riding" to your IPO.
LOL...
And now I like to know, why did you let people to trade your shares BEFORE! the IPO was complete (in half, full, canceled).

Bitcoin Oz

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Wat

Quote from: evoorhees on August 27, 2012, 12:33:30 AM

Quote from: cedus on August 26, 2012, 07:22:30 PM

Quote from: evoorhees on August 21, 2012, 02:39:57 PM

So it is thus accurate to say that I prefer 32k BTC instead of 10% of SatoshiDICE, but I would not prefer 15k BTC instead of 10% of SatoshiDICE. My investment preference only shifts to the BTC at the 32k for 10% exchange rate. Further, I wouldn’t sell another 10% for an additional 32k btc, for at that margin my preference shifts back to SD.

If some portion of the Bitcoin investment world has a matching inverse time preference to to mine, and is thus willing to pay 32k BTC for 10% of SD, then we all have a deal and the exchange is made. Otherwise, my exchange preference and that of the market do not align, and we continue on as we were.

Are you planning to call off this IPO since the second tranche is practically untouched after 24 hrs and the third one should also be released by any moment now? Seems like your conditions above (emphasis mine) are not going to be met.

What price you're going to use when buying back shares? I mean, if someone is now buying in for .0034 and then you decide to cancel the IPO and buy back for .0032 there's immediate 6% loss (plus possible MPEx/GLBSE fees etc). Didn't find a clause for this when glancing over the conditions.

No intention of "calling off" anything. If shares don't get bought, then I get to keep the dividends to myself. No biggie.

I hope you arent going to transfer unsold shares to your own account because that would be fraud, because thats the only way you can earn dividends from them.

EskimoBob

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Quote from: evoorhees on August 27, 2012, 12:33:30 AM

Quote from: cedus on August 26, 2012, 07:22:30 PM

Quote from: evoorhees on August 21, 2012, 02:39:57 PM

So it is thus accurate to say that I prefer 32k BTC instead of 10% of SatoshiDICE, but I would not prefer 15k BTC instead of 10% of SatoshiDICE. My investment preference only shifts to the BTC at the 32k for 10% exchange rate. Further, I wouldn’t sell another 10% for an additional 32k btc, for at that margin my preference shifts back to SD.

If some portion of the Bitcoin investment world has a matching inverse time preference to to mine, and is thus willing to pay 32k BTC for 10% of SD, then we all have a deal and the exchange is made. Otherwise, my exchange preference and that of the market do not align, and we continue on as we were.

Are you planning to call off this IPO since the second tranche is practically untouched after 24 hrs and the third one should also be released by any moment now? Seems like your conditions above (emphasis mine) are not going to be met.

What price you're going to use when buying back shares? I mean, if someone is now buying in for .0034 and then you decide to cancel the IPO and buy back for .0032 there's immediate 6% loss (plus possible MPEx/GLBSE fees etc). Didn't find a clause for this when glancing over the conditions.

No intention of "calling off" anything. If shares don't get bought, then I get to keep the dividends to myself. No biggie.

Actually it is a biggie to you and not for the investors.
If you do not buy those shares personally from the IPO, you can not get the dividends. As simple as that.
If part of the IPO is not sold out, shares will be "bought back" or more like held by the company (not you as a person) and those shares become so called treasury stock. Treasury stock will be excluded form dividend payments and have no voting right etc and are not part of the SD equity (in your balance sheet).
Option #2 is, you cancel the left over shares and by that you reduce the number of the total outstanding shares.
Option #3 You cancel the whole issue and return the money to IPO participants at the price they bought the shares.
Like I mentioned before, you got greedy

and this moron, who advised you on your IPO, has no idea what he is doing or did.

cedus

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Quote from: evoorhees on August 27, 2012, 12:33:30 AM

Quote from: cedus on August 26, 2012, 07:22:30 PM

Quote from: evoorhees on August 21, 2012, 02:39:57 PM

So it is thus accurate to say that I prefer 32k BTC instead of 10% of SatoshiDICE, but I would not prefer 15k BTC instead of 10% of SatoshiDICE. My investment preference only shifts to the BTC at the 32k for 10% exchange rate. Further, I wouldn’t sell another 10% for an additional 32k btc, for at that margin my preference shifts back to SD.

If some portion of the Bitcoin investment world has a matching inverse time preference to to mine, and is thus willing to pay 32k BTC for 10% of SD, then we all have a deal and the exchange is made. Otherwise, my exchange preference and that of the market do not align, and we continue on as we were.

Are you planning to call off this IPO since the second tranche is practically untouched after 24 hrs and the third one should also be released by any moment now? Seems like your conditions above (emphasis mine) are not going to be met.

What price you're going to use when buying back shares? I mean, if someone is now buying in for .0034 and then you decide to cancel the IPO and buy back for .0032 there's immediate 6% loss (plus possible MPEx/GLBSE fees etc). Didn't find a clause for this when glancing over the conditions.

No intention of "calling off" anything. If shares don't get bought, then I get to keep the dividends to myself. No biggie.

Ok. Just thought you might have something particular in mind for which you need exactly 32k (personal or fixed 3.2k budgeted for that ad campaign, now it's only getting 640 btc).

What about those remaining shares, keeping them for sale or removing after certain period of time?

Might even end up buying some shares after all. Wink

Have really mixed feelings about this IPO though, let's see what happens.

EskimoBob

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Who gave you advice on how to structure and sell your IPO?

evoorhees

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Quote from: cedus on August 26, 2012, 07:22:30 PM

Quote from: evoorhees on August 21, 2012, 02:39:57 PM

So it is thus accurate to say that I prefer 32k BTC instead of 10% of SatoshiDICE, but I would not prefer 15k BTC instead of 10% of SatoshiDICE. My investment preference only shifts to the BTC at the 32k for 10% exchange rate. Further, I wouldn’t sell another 10% for an additional 32k btc, for at that margin my preference shifts back to SD.

If some portion of the Bitcoin investment world has a matching inverse time preference to to mine, and is thus willing to pay 32k BTC for 10% of SD, then we all have a deal and the exchange is made. Otherwise, my exchange preference and that of the market do not align, and we continue on as we were.

Are you planning to call off this IPO since the second tranche is practically untouched after 24 hrs and the third one should also be released by any moment now? Seems like your conditions above (emphasis mine) are not going to be met.

What price you're going to use when buying back shares? I mean, if someone is now buying in for .0034 and then you decide to cancel the IPO and buy back for .0032 there's immediate 6% loss (plus possible MPEx/GLBSE fees etc). Didn't find a clause for this when glancing over the conditions.

No intention of "calling off" anything. If shares don't get bought, then I get to keep the dividends to myself. No biggie.

koin

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Quote from: cedus on August 26, 2012, 07:22:30 PM

What price you're going to use when buying back shares?

cancel whatever is left or not, is there an obligation to buy back any? the service can operate profitably with only 2% of shares held publicly just as it could with 10%, right?

misterbigg

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Quote from: cedus on August 26, 2012, 07:22:30 PM

Are you planning to call off this IPO since the second tranche is practically untouched after 24 hrs and the third one should also be released by any moment now?

Why didn't he just auction the shares in blocks of 1,000,000? Every 3 days he could put up a million shares, people would bid on them and then at the expiration of the auction the first million shares of the highest priced bids would win and pay. Then he could do that again until the entire lot was sold.

I'm almost certainly that the final selling price per share would be less than 0.0032BTC.

Quote from: cedus on August 26, 2012, 07:22:30 PM

My investment preference only shifts to the BTC at the 32k for 10% exchange rate.

Translation: S.DICE shares are worth less than 0.0032BTC

dree12

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Quote from: cedus on August 26, 2012, 07:22:30 PM

Quote from: evoorhees on August 21, 2012, 02:39:57 PM

So it is thus accurate to say that I prefer 32k BTC instead of 10% of SatoshiDICE, but I would not prefer 15k BTC instead of 10% of SatoshiDICE. My investment preference only shifts to the BTC at the 32k for 10% exchange rate. Further, I wouldn’t sell another 10% for an additional 32k btc, for at that margin my preference shifts back to SD.

If some portion of the Bitcoin investment world has a matching inverse time preference to to mine, and is thus willing to pay 32k BTC for 10% of SD, then we all have a deal and the exchange is made. Otherwise, my exchange preference and that of the market do not align, and we continue on as we were.

Are you planning to call off this IPO since the second tranche is practically untouched after 24 hrs and the third one should also be released by any moment now? Seems like your conditions above (emphasis mine) are not going to be met.

What price you're going to use when buying back shares? I mean, if someone is now buying in for .0034 and then you decide to cancel the IPO and buy back for .0032 there's immediate 6% loss (plus possible MPEx/GLBSE fees etc). Didn't find a clause for this when glancing over the conditions.

The second IPO should succeed still. I think there is a very low chance the third would, considering how GSDPT volume has dried up and MPEX is disgusting.

cedus

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Quote from: evoorhees on August 21, 2012, 02:39:57 PM

So it is thus accurate to say that I prefer 32k BTC instead of 10% of SatoshiDICE, but I would not prefer 15k BTC instead of 10% of SatoshiDICE. My investment preference only shifts to the BTC at the 32k for 10% exchange rate. Further, I wouldn’t sell another 10% for an additional 32k btc, for at that margin my preference shifts back to SD.

If some portion of the Bitcoin investment world has a matching inverse time preference to to mine, and is thus willing to pay 32k BTC for 10% of SD, then we all have a deal and the exchange is made. Otherwise, my exchange preference and that of the market do not align, and we continue on as we were.

Are you planning to call off this IPO since the second tranche is practically untouched after 24 hrs and the third one should also be released by any moment now? Seems like your conditions above (emphasis mine) are not going to be met.

What price you're going to use when buying back shares? I mean, if someone is now buying in for .0034 and then you decide to cancel the IPO and buy back for .0032 there's immediate 6% loss (plus possible MPEx/GLBSE fees etc). Didn't find a clause for this when glancing over the conditions.

dree12

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Quote from: Fizzgig on August 26, 2012, 04:21:10 PM

Oh, I think I see what you are saying. I have a better explanation, Erik probably is in the bitcoin mindset so deeply that everyone who adopts early should be rewarded for doing so. He is rewarding the first 2 million shareholders for being the first. Just like Satoshi did with Bitcoin.

What is going to happen almost certainly is that the price will rise immediately after the IPO once a few months profits start showing. There won't be a better time to get into this than now, and he knows it. He's doing this entire thing as a way to enrich holders of bitcoin and create a massively powerful economy. The more investing with bitcoin, the more value bitcoin has, he knows it but he can't say that. He can only be 100% transparent in his dealings and let the rest of us figure it out.

Disclaimer: These are only my own personal feelings as I saw the news of this IPO while considering Erik's past achievements. We will see in time if the value is actually there so make up your own mind.

SatoshiDice itself is low-risk, but MPEX is high-risk. Compounded, the risk is likely too high for the price to rise above the IPO. I think that the third tier IPO is priced way too high. These are my personal feelings, and the reason why I am currently sold out in GSDPT.

Topic: [CLOSED] S.DICE - SatoshiDICE 100% Dividend-Paying Asset on MPEx - page 89. (Read 316448 times)