Topic: Cloudbet has confiscated funds in violation of their TOS (Read 871 times)

I'm also glad to see that the matter has been settled to both parties' satisfaction. @cwil, as already mentioned, I think it would be fair to add "resolved" to this topic's title to give this issue a proper resolution.

I am going to remove my support for the flag and also remove the negative feedback since they resolved the issue based on what OP said here


I have no intention of damaging the reputation of cloud bet especially after years of hard work even though their support seems slow in resolving issues these days.

Maybe you should change the title by adding the word ‘resolved’. Finally I'm happy to see that your issue has been resolved. But it was very bad that Cloudbet team took a long time to give their response. They took the action here after the messages of forum members. Cloudbet deserve a neutral feedback for their late response. I hope logfiles will leave a neutral feedback by removing the negative one (by including the reason ‘late response’).

I've modified the first post in this thread to make the update more prominent.

I've also withdrawn my support for the flag, so that one no longer has sufficient support.
At least logfiles may need to check his/her DT1 feedback, since it's related to this topic.

OP, please make more visible the update about the payment 
You can use [ hr ] for spacing/separation too.

I do not dispute the possibility of another account, but I sincerely do not know if I ever made one prior to the account in question. I can't go in to much detail about my tooling much like I suspect Cloudbet won't want to go in to much detail about how their risk detection system works, but I can say that with high confidence, regardless of how much telemetry Cloudbet collects, the machine and individual Cloudbet saw that day were brand new. It's very likely that the only thing that triggered the KYC request was the use of the VPN. We're getting a bit off topic here, but if that's wrong and Cloudbet did not see that visit as unique, I would happily take that data in lieu of the 0.005 BTC refund mentioned upthread. To be clear, that's not a challenge or taunt, I truly am interested and would love the opportunity to improve my methods. Cloudbet, please PM me if you want to pass that info along instead of the refund.


Cloudbet has processed a refund as discussed upthread. I've withdrawn my flag and revised feedback as agreed.

An account opened at Cloudbet does not eliminate the possibility that there was another account in the past that you forgot about. Like you said, you only started keeping proper records in 2018. Based on Cloudbet's reply, they did suspect that it was a matter of multi-accounting. And those things can happen if you are using VPNs.

In the end, it looks like this will end on a positive note. Nothing has been proven and the bookie has decided to settle the matter.

It's a bit late, it's almost 2 months since the report, still, a good step forward.
It looks like this will get to a happy end, after all. Please keep us posted.

The phrase "one of my accounts" should be interpreted as an account opened at Cloudbet. I can not say if I have opened an account at Cloudbet before the day in question prior to 2018. I began keeping better records and can say that I have not opened an account since March of 2018.

I do not concede that I have ever placed bets from a restricted location as defined by Cloudbet's TOS.


I accept terms 7.1.4 and 7.1.6. These terms state that a user will not be physically located in the listed countries and that Cloudbet may use any means necessary to collect my information in order to enforce 7.1.4. These terms do not compel me to provide information. Even if you do think they compel me to provide information, the remedy for a violation of their TOS is found in section 11, specifically 11.1 and 11.3. The only part of the agreement in which fund confiscation or the freezing of funds appears is in reference to opening multiple accounts, discussed above, or by placing a bet from a prohibited jurisdiction, which didn't happen and Cloudbet does not seem to be arguing otherwise. Absent that criteria, per the TOS, account closures include a refund of deposited funds.


I used a VPN located in Canada, this is not a restricted country per the Cloudbet TOS.


I do not frequent this part of the forum and was unaware of activity in this thread until today. My goal was and still remains to warn others about what I feel to be Cloudbet's poor customer service and inability to abide by their TOS, not the return of the deposit, as I indicated in the reference thread in the first post of this thread.


Yeah, you have a good handle on the situation as I see it. Cloudbet wants information that I don't want to provide. I will quote the reference thread:


I've been pretty up front in that my goal is to report my experience.


I believe that they have the right to request KYC from anyone they like, and anyone has the right to refuse that request.


Cloudbet did reach out to me in a PM, which is what brought me here. That message is as follows:


I've not yet received this email but I am agreeable to the terms stated in the PM.

Hi all,

Thank you for your messages.

After reviewing this case, we can see that as mentioned: an account was opened, a deposit was made, and no bets were placed.

Based on our review, KYC was requested due to suspected multi-accounting which was flagged by our internal systems.

As stated in our Cloudbet terms and conditions


Our team have reached out to the player privately, and hope to resolve this issue as quickly as possible.

Many thanks,
Cloudbet Team

The only question I have is whether they have the right to request KYC verification on people who never have, and never will consume their services? I assume there must be some law prohibiting that. It is something else if the OP is suspected of having multiple accounts, but I have not seen it mentioned anywhere.

BTW, Despite Cloudbet being active again today, there has been no response to this case.

How do you know that OP has never played on Cloudbet before from other betting accounts?
How do you know where OP is from?
How do you know which country OP was in when he accessed the account or accounts in question?

You don't. I don't either. Check the bolded part I posted above in the quote from OP. Cloudbet probably doesn't either, hence the questions and requests they have. Cloudbet's silence in this whole matter is a negative thing. That's true. But the issue will surely not get resolved without OP doing what Cloudbet has asked for, no matter how unfortunate and unpleasant it is.

You are only judging it from the statement of OP. This accusation has so many obscure things. Pmalek has given a well example of it


Someone created an account in a casino from unknown place by using a VPN service. Then he made a deposit to play, but suddenly the user changed his plan and asked the casino team to send his deposit back. So the question arises here:
Cloudbet will apply the funds confiscate rules (terms 11.4) if a user create an account and place bets from restricted countries. If OP is from a restricted country then why he made the deposit at Cloudbet by knowing the fact?

Some facts:

• The usage of VPN
• AML policy. (Making a deposit on the casino then requesting for withdrawal without placing bets).
• The casino have gambling license

Let's assume you are the government of a country. You have the law (casino license) where it is mentioned that you won't allow people from ‘A’ ‘B’ ‘C’ countries. A person entered in your country by using an illegal method (use of VPN) from an unknown place (it could be one of those restricted countries which is mentioned in the TOS). Now he wants to go back in his country without doing anything, but he knows that there is no way to leave your country silently (the withdrawal needs approval of Cloudbet team). So, the person asked you to let him go back in his place.

Will your government accept his request and send him back without any inquiry (by ignoring the law, by ignoring the illegal method he used)? Or you will ask him to verify his identity?

cloudbet in the last few months prefers to ignore certain problems and destroy their reputation, I wonder what their goal is, if they want to close the casino then why don't they close soon than not responding to every accusation and worse not solving the accusation cases and they are destroying their reputation and honestly why the hell do people keep using this casino?

The reason i supported the flag and even left feedback was the fact that the user even requested Cloudbet to close his account and just send him back the deposit he had made, of which the cloudbet support is just being rigid.

What is the purpose of asking for someone's documents if they have already stated that they want to close the account and get their deposit they never used for any betting on the site back?

OP might not be aware of the recent posts here unless he has subscribed to a bot that notifies him about mentions and quotes, or if he isn't tracking new posts in his own threads regularly. The Cloudbet admin knows about this for sure. I PMed them asking if they can comment here. But Cloudbet might not be interested in revealing what they have or what they suspect OP is doing until they have gathered all the required evidence. The way things stand now, OP is the one who needs to react if he wants a chance to get his deposit back.   

Well I've checked Cloudbet's TOS, it seems this accusations aren't really valid and Cloudbet TOS aren't really clear... they can do anything with the account whether they ask KYC or they need to suspend the account. Since it's not valid, so I deleted my support on this flag.

However both of them (@OP and @Cloudbet) were active, but none of them response to the recent post. We need to hear more about the @OP using multiple accounts, VPNs, etc and @Cloudbet's review against his account.

Sorry, but I'm sick and tired by the number of fishy things done by various services in the name of KYC.
I don't say that OP situation is crystal clear. It isn't. But the casino behavior is also questionable.


If VPN is not disallowed explicitly, it can be considered allowed. Of course, if it's used for abuse, it's a completely different story.
Now, I've seen that "one of my accounts" wording and it can be seen as "one of my Cloudbet accounts" (which is abuse) or "one my gambling accounts" (may be one at Cloudbet and one at Bitsler).
Since Cloudbet didn't bother to come and show a minimum evidence that OP is cheating... why should I assume that?


Well said.

It's odd that the casino did come to say a word. If they would have clear evidence of anything bad, they could clear their name easily. Also paying that small amount is an option.
The fact they don't do any move rise a question imho about how much they care about their customers.

The problem arises when you use a VPN with an IP address from a restricted country. If that happens, the casino can ask why you are doing that and if you have something to hide. You might just be interested in protecting your own privacy (a legit reason), or you could be using multiple accounts or be located in a country banned from the casino. So you are using the VPN to get around that ban.

I don't like it either under normal circumstances. In this particular case, OP used a VPN from a restricted location. That can always be a reason for a second look by Cloudbet. He also said that "one" of his accounts got suspended. He didn't play with the money deposited in that suspended account, but what if he has multiple accounts and played with some of the other accounts?

This case has many whats and ifs. Both parties are like two opposing armies who have each other at gunpoint. But no one is shooting or negotiating the terms to lay down the weapons.

Sorry, I had no intention to bother you or the other 3 members with the mess PM, and I never thought that it will be considered as spam from any of you.

BTW, the amount doesn't matter. The KYC requirements is mentioned in the casino terms. And a licensed casino have to follow the rules of their terms, no matter how small the withdrawal amount is. I'm a regular bettor and I'm in gambling since last 4 years. I have seen many cases like this in different places. As example: A user was asked for KYC verification on a withdrawal of $105 only at Primedice and I have described the story here. Moreover, I was asked to do KYC verification on a withdrawal of 0.00113 BTC at PlayBetr, you can see the details here. ^{However, My issue was resolved without the verification process.}

There are two reasons for the presence of me in this accusation. The first one is mentioned by Pmalek above, and I have said about the second reason in the PM (I'm collecting the data of KYC requirements from each casino). I didn't support the flag as OP isn't accepting the whole terms of Cloudbet, I didn't Oppose the flag as Cloudbet admin staying silent. My position is clear here, and it is neutral.