Cloudbet has confiscated funds in violation of their TOS - page 2.

dkbit98

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I deleted support for this flag against Cloudbet after reviewing the case, and I don't have will and time to dig deeper,
but it is strange to see that one Opposition for this flag was Cloudbet, and they never cared to comment anything about this in forum.
In the same time member Mahdirakib showed up suddenly and started to do his own investigation, and he is holding the side of Cloudbet, without opposing the flag.
Why Cloudbet remained silent all this time, even if they are well aware of this case, and they are still visiting and reading what's happening in forum?

https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/cloudbet-154563

NeuroticFish

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Quote from: Mahdirakib on January 14, 2022, 05:24:31 AM

I just sent a PM to those DT members (NeuroticFish, logfiles, dkbit98, Jawhead999) who supported the flag. I would like to hear back from them as they supported the type 3 flag according to this accusation.

I don't find normal to hide behind the KYC requirements for something as small as 0.005BTC, especially since OP didn't play with the money and he was asking for the account get closed and refunded exactly because of KYC.
So something is super fishy there. And with Cloudbet not bothering to say a word... imho the case is clear.

PS. Mass PM-ing like this is not nice (spam), no matter how good the intention would be.

Mahdirakib

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Quote from: Pmalek on January 14, 2022, 03:52:23 AM

His claim is only valid if he has no other Cloudbet accounts and if he isn't from a restricted location. Since he accessed the service using a VPN from a country that is banned by Cloudbet, they are trying to find out who he is and where he comes from.

Cloudbet hasn't mentioned anything about the usage of VPN in their terms, but it is better to avoid the usage of VPN in a licensed casino where some country restrictions are placed.

Quote from: Pmalek on January 14, 2022, 03:52:23 AM

If OP did the KYC and Cloudbet still confiscated his funds without explaining the reasons and showing/having proof to support those claims, it would be a 100% scam.

Yeah, the KYC rules is above all other terms of a casino. Because every casino says “We reserves the right to ask for KYC at any time..” I think OP should go through the KYC process to confirm whether Cloudbet return his deposit amount or not. Until then we can't say it is 100% scam.

I just sent a PM to those DT members (NeuroticFish, logfiles, dkbit98, Jawhead999) who supported the flag. I would like to hear back from them as they supported the type 3 flag according to this accusation.

Maasdamer

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Quote from: Pmalek on January 14, 2022, 03:52:23 AM

Quote from: Mahdirakib on January 13, 2022, 11:19:39 AM

Based on the details of this thread this accusation is valid. OP said Cloudbet asked him to verify his identity as the system suspected that he is from restricted country.

His claim is only valid if he has no other Cloudbet accounts and if he isn't from a restricted location. Since he accessed the service using a VPN from a country that is banned by Cloudbet, they are trying to find out who he is and where he comes from.

Quote from: Mahdirakib on January 13, 2022, 11:19:39 AM

If they confiscated his funds for having multiple accounts then they should have mentioned about it without asking for KYC. Anyway, Cloudbet reserves the right to freeze user fund if he/she create more than one account (terms 7.1.10.2)

They might be just investigating if he is. If they believe he is using multiple accounts, maybe those have or will receive the same KYC requests. They are asking questions, OP isn't providing the answers. I understand that people don't want to undergo KYC (I wouldn't either), but something has aroused their suspicions apparently.

Quote from: Mahdirakib on January 13, 2022, 11:19:39 AM

This accusation would be more valid if OP hasn't received the refund by completing the verification.

If OP did the KYC and Cloudbet still confiscated his funds without explaining the reasons and showing/having proof to support those claims, it would be a 100% scam.

Edit: I have PMed Cloudbet and asked them to reply in this thread.
Let's see if they are going to do that...

This thread is open for 2 months, the flag also active for quite a while (flag contains this thread) but they haven't cared until now.

Pmalek

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Quote from: Mahdirakib on January 13, 2022, 11:19:39 AM

Based on the details of this thread this accusation is valid. OP said Cloudbet asked him to verify his identity as the system suspected that he is from restricted country.

His claim is only valid if he has no other Cloudbet accounts and if he isn't from a restricted location. Since he accessed the service using a VPN from a country that is banned by Cloudbet, they are trying to find out who he is and where he comes from.

Quote from: Mahdirakib on January 13, 2022, 11:19:39 AM

If they confiscated his funds for having multiple accounts then they should have mentioned about it without asking for KYC. Anyway, Cloudbet reserves the right to freeze user fund if he/she create more than one account (terms 7.1.10.2)

They might be just investigating if he is. If they believe he is using multiple accounts, maybe those have or will receive the same KYC requests. They are asking questions, OP isn't providing the answers. I understand that people don't want to undergo KYC (I wouldn't either), but something has aroused their suspicions apparently.

Quote from: Mahdirakib on January 13, 2022, 11:19:39 AM

This accusation would be more valid if OP hasn't received the refund by completing the verification.

If OP did the KYC and Cloudbet still confiscated his funds without explaining the reasons and showing/having proof to support those claims, it would be a 100% scam.

Edit: I have PMed Cloudbet and asked them to reply in this thread.
Let's see if they are going to do that...

Mahdirakib

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Quote from: Pmalek on January 13, 2022, 05:24:37 AM

~snip~

Maybe it was a typing mistake from OP. Based on the details of this thread this accusation is valid. OP said Cloudbet asked him to verify his identity as the system suspected that he is from restricted country. If they confiscated his funds for having multiple accounts then they should have mentioned about it without asking for KYC. Anyway, Cloudbet reserves the right to freeze user fund if he/she create more than one account (terms 7.1.10.2)

BTW, I have checked the ‘PM/Chat Logs’ from the post and found that Cloudbet team mentioned about the terms 7.1.4 and 7.1.6

Quote

7.1.4. We reserve the right to conduct such checks at any time as we deem necessary to verify our compliance with clause 7.1.3.
7.1.6. You authorise us to use any means that we consider necessary to verify your identity and creditworthiness with any third party providers of information.

So, OP isn't giving priority to those terms and haven't done the KYC verification. I'm wondering why he (OP) is accepting a small part of the terms by ignoring the first few parts of it. A type 3 flag has been created and supported by the DT members based on the statements of this thread!

This accusation would be more valid if OP hasn't received the refund by completing the verification. I can see that only ’bL4nkcode’ has mentioned about those terms here. I think this accusation is currently at ‘neutral’ position. However, the silence of the Cloudbet admin isn't acceptable.

Pmalek

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I was just made aware of this issue by the user Mahdirakib in my thread where I keep track of withdrawal fees and withdrawal amounts for different casinos. One of my rules is that I don't list casinos that have scammed people in my OP.

I have a question for cwil.
In the reference link you posted, you said:

Quote from: cwil on November 15, 2021, 02:48:19 AM

Cloudbet suspended and KYC'd one of my accounts created using a popular VPN service pretty quickly after a small initial deposit.

What do you mean with "one" of your accounts? Does that mean that you have multiple betting accounts on Cloudbet? And are you accessing all or some of those accounts with a VPN?

Someone correct me if I am wrong. Even if the account that was suspended didn't make any bets, maybe some other accounts that you have (since you said "one account" got suspended) did. If that is the case, you (the person, not the one suspended account) would be in breach of their TOS because you were betting from a restricted location.

I am not accusing you, I am just trying to interpret your words properly.

logfiles

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Quote from: acroman08 on December 02, 2021, 10:03:30 PM

nope, I can still see the flag cwil created on the inactive flags on cloudbet's trust page. is it a bug?

Maybe it has something to do with your custom trust settings.

3 of the members supporting the flag, including me, are actually DT members
1. Jawhead999 - DT2
2. logfiles - DT2
3. dkbit98 - DT1

Am actually so surprised that NeuroticFish isn't on DT. How is this possible? Shocked

acroman08

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Quote from: logfiles on December 02, 2021, 07:53:05 PM

If you look at the top of the trust page of the profile, it's showing as active

yeah, I checked and it doesn't show anything. I did it multiple times thinking that there's might a delay or something but it is still not showing.

here is what I am currently seeing when I go to their trust page

Quote from: logfiles on December 02, 2021, 07:53:05 PM

The inactive flags you might be referring to are from the past. Some are of resolved cases, so DT members removed support or opposed the flag to make it inactive

nope, I can still see the flag cwil created on the inactive flags on cloudbet's trust page. is it a bug?

logfiles

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Quote from: acroman08 on December 02, 2021, 04:37:29 PM

Quote from: logfiles on December 01, 2021, 03:30:36 PM

Any DT can work. It's now active so never mind.

I might be wrong but I still see it on the inactive flags or is it just a bug?. aren't active flags supposed to show on the account's trust profile once it becomes active?

sorry if I am asking a lot of questions.

@OP I suggest putting the link of the flag on your first post so people who might want to support it can easily access it.

If you look at the top of the trust page of the profile, it's showing as active

The inactive flags you might be referring to are from the past. Some are of resolved cases, so DT members removed support or opposed the flag to make it inactive

The Cloudbet profile was online today. Not sure if they are planning to resolve the issue, but they should for the sake of their reputation.

acroman08

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Quote from: logfiles on December 01, 2021, 03:30:36 PM

Any DT can work. It's now active so never mind.

I might be wrong but I still see it on the inactive flags or is it just a bug?. aren't active flags supposed to show on the account's trust profile once it becomes active?

sorry if I am asking a lot of questions.

@OP I suggest putting the link of the flag on your first post so people who might want to support it can easily access it.

logfiles

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Quote from: PaperWallet on December 01, 2021, 02:51:41 AM

Yeah seriously these are the comments made by the legends. I am considering posting my FortuneJack evidence on other forums, I am starting to get embarrassed redirecting people to the evidence I post here.

And by the way, did you know that on 100% of gambling websites you should do at least a 1x play through, if not 2x play through on your beloved FortuneJack? What if I deposited on FortuneJack, wanted my money back, refused to do KYC, and came here complaining? That would be ok because FortuneJack bought you with 10 dollars xD

I bet you know all of that, you're just of bad faith. Again, no wonder that a respected website like CloudBet doesn't care about their reputation here.

Not sure what you mean by FortuneJack buying me with 10 dollars. Do you have evidence to show that I was bought off?

Go look at fortunejack's feedback left by DT. I remember at one point they also had red tags, they resolved cases and the negative feedback was removed or changed to neutral.

I have mostly been following cloudbet cases. It's not out of malice. In fact, at one point, I trusted this casino.

Quote from: acroman08 on December 01, 2021, 08:43:40 AM

just curious, does the DT needs to be at a DT1 in order for support on a type 3 flag to count? I checked the flag and there are currently two DT2 and one DT1 supporting the flag.

Any DT can work. It's now active so never mind.

acroman08

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Quote from: logfiles on November 28, 2021, 07:50:43 PM

The type of flag you open OP will require at least 3 DT for it to become active.

just curious, does the DT needs to be at a DT1 in order for support on a type 3 flag to count? I checked the flag and there are currently two DT2 and one DT1 supporting the flag.

anyway, I suggest posting the flag link to this thread "Request Support (or Opposition) for Flags here!" to ask for support from the other DT members

PaperWallet

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Quote from: logfiles on November 30, 2021, 07:31:19 PM

While you place a bet with fortunejack (that's if the story is even true)

Yeah seriously these are the comments made by the legends. I am considering posting my FortuneJack evidence on other forums, I am starting to get embarrassed redirecting people to the evidence I post here.

And by the way, did you know that on 100% of gambling websites you should do at least a 1x play through, if not 2x play through on your beloved FortuneJack? What if I deposited on FortuneJack, wanted my money back, refused to do KYC, and came here complaining? That would be ok because FortuneJack bought you with 10 dollars xD

I bet you know all of that, you're just of bad faith. Again, no wonder that a respected website like CloudBet doesn't care about their reputation here.

Quote from: logfiles on November 30, 2021, 07:31:19 PM

If you are doubting, go check out the last pages of comments in their thread.

I saw that, and I'll give you credit for this. Pretty ugly. That is why I was right to stop all financial transactions with casinos from Curaçao. But still my experience with them was not that bad.

[moderator's note: consecutive posts merged]

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Quote from: PaperWallet on November 30, 2021, 04:09:18 PM

Lol, before I stopped my online gambling activity (due the FortuneJack 120,000 dollars scam, check it on scam accusation), I used to withdraw up to 4BTC on CloudBet when BTC was 60k$, paid in 4 to 5 hours. Now all of these Legends want to discredit Cloudbet because they're not paying 0.005 BTC, and the same people say it is ok for FortuneJack not to pay 120,000 dollars worth win. No wonder CloudBet does not care about making a reputation in this forum. Now OP here just do KYC and stop complaining.

How does your fortunejack scam accusation fit in here?

This is a thread about cloudbet refusing to pay someone their money.
Cloudbet was OK in the past, but over time everything about them seems to be worsening. If you are doubting, go check out the last pages of comments in their thread.

Quote from: PaperWallet on November 30, 2021, 04:09:18 PM

FortuneJack FORCED me as well to do KYC before withdrawing. If I did not want to pass KYC and came here complaining about this would the same geniuses here say this was ok?

While you place a bet with fortunejack (that's if the story is even true). OP never place any bet with cloudbet. He just wants his money back

PaperWallet

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Lol, before I stopped my online gambling activity (due the FortuneJack 120,000 dollars scam, check it on scam accusation), I used to withdraw up to 4BTC on CloudBet when BTC was 60k$, paid in 4 to 5 hours. Now all of these Legends want to discredit Cloudbet because they're not paying 0.005 BTC, and the same people say it is ok for FortuneJack not to pay 120,000 dollars worth win. No wonder CloudBet does not care about making a reputation in this forum. Now OP here just do KYC and stop complaining.

But if you want to look at a place that is worthy of making comments on gambling websites, you should take a look at this FortuneJack report: https://www.gamblinggrumbles.com/Reports/Fortunejack-Casino_paid-only-half

FortuneJack FORCED me as well to do KYC before withdrawing. If I did not want to pass KYC and came here complaining about this would the same geniuses here say this was ok?

cwil

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Quote from: bL4nkcode on November 30, 2021, 02:57:33 PM

...they are also right for the terms 7.1.4 and 7.1.6 as they mentioned if you really came from those countries. I probably guess they will still hold on to that and still keep your funds locked until you provided what they want.

I do not disagree that Cloudbet can ask for KYC documents. I assert that the language of the TOS in section 11 provides a remedy for a violation of any section in the agreement that includes a refund of deposits, with the sole exception being if a bet was placed from a prohibited jurisdiction. Cloudbet can attempt to enforce the provision in question, but I believe that they have exhausted all reasonable ways to do that. They should close the account and provide a refund as they are bound by the agreement to do so.

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Quote from: naim027 on November 29, 2021, 09:24:11 AM

IDK what is their plan? I doubt if their ownership changed or not.

The account has no recent activity since june, the assumptions of changing of ownership is currently not possible.

As for the OP, while you're right for the one you have mentioned terms (11.4), but they are also right for the terms 7.1.4 and 7.1.6 as they mentioned if you really came from those countries. I probably guess they will still hold on to that and still keep your funds locked until you provided what they want.

It may sounds stupid that they still want some information from you even though you don't want to do business with them anymore but unfortunately it's part of their terms you wish to agree upon registration. I guess most services will do the same even not in gambling industry with those terms.

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Quote from: dkbit98 on November 29, 2021, 11:31:53 AM

Maybe you are lucky that you didn't send more Bitcoin there, but they sure need to provide some evidence to you or here in forum, and they should return your deposit.

There is no need even for extra evidence. OP never placed any bet on their site and decided that he wanted his account closed and the deposit refunded.

And now they are still asking for KYC so that OP gets back his deposit. OP no longer wants to do business with them after realizing that his country is banned, Why do they still care about his documents?

They should just send back the money to the guy, case resolved.

dkbit98

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I supported the flag and I heard other people complains who used Cloudbet, so they are going to lose more customers if they continue like this.
Maybe you are lucky that you didn't send more Bitcoin there, but they sure need to provide some evidence to you or here in forum, and they should return your deposit.

Topic: Cloudbet has confiscated funds in violation of their TOS - page 2. (Read 796 times)