Topic: coinjedi / betsofbitco.in SCAMMERS: Declares "Push" on obvious win for BFL bet - page 17. (Read 28040 times)

Our reasoning is already on the page, so I will not repeat it here. We do our best to judge by the user written descriptions of statements. Unfortunately sometimes the outcome is not as unambiguous as we want. I guess that is why lawyer-talk evolved to be so convoluted. This particular case does not meet the unambiguity criteria we set ourselves.

Everybody got their full bet back, including the original submission fee. We could choose to select one side and earn a significant commission, enough to buy a nice laptop these days, but we didn't.

I respect everybody who thinks that we didn't judge well enough, but scamming is a different matter. I hope at least some of the bettors understand and respect our decision when the dust settles.

The unit hasn't been shipped at all. We have just seen a photo of a prototype. Ergo bet result is TRUE. He deserves the scammer tag

If "ALL" of the conditions of the bet didn't happen then the bet is lost.

According to http://betsofbitco.in/item?id=701

Bet: Butterfly Labs will not ship ASIC-based Bitforce SC products before April 2013


Second:

The customer doesn't have the product, Luke-JR post a picture of the hashing unit right now with the timestamp.

Third:

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/first-bfl-asic-163261 It was posted AFTER April 1st (EST)

Fourth:

I want my money back for this bet, since the errors was DISCOVERED, nowhere in the bet it says that they should be confirmed.

http://betsofbitco.in/item?id=139

http://www.geekologie.com/2012/02/thats-embarrassing-faster-than-light-neu.php

Theft, plain and simple. Really hope they don't get away with it.

(I had no stake in the bet)

It's also a freeroll for BFL that bet on it being shipped

I had no stake in the bet.
betsofbitco.in admitted that the title of the listing is part of the bet. Getting a consultant who you pay expenses for, to post photos of a prototype that's still sitting on the test bench, obviously doesn't count as shipping a unit. It might be enough to show that a BFL ASIC is able to hash, but it doesn't count as shipping.

Any argument that betsofbitco.in didn't make a commission on this bet, and thus didn't earn anything from it, is bunk because this decision is obvisouly corrupt. Who knows how much the losing side (those who bet that BFL would have shipped by now) paid betsofbitco.in to settle in their favor?

+1 scammer on both coinjedi / betsofbitco.in and Luke_Jr

BFL_Josh was called out about this on the BFL forum as well.

One thing has been bothering me though thinking about it.....

In BFL_Josh's video (at BFL) you see the setup (plugs, voltage meter, multimeter etc). In Luke-Jr's pictures (after 'shipped to Luke-Jr') you see the same set up, just from a different (and closer) angle.

Josh's video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4C4bgho5JSI
Luke-Jr's Pics: https://forums.butterflylabs.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=755&d=1364793240 (https://forums.butterflylabs.com/blogs/luke-jr/118-my-first-asics.html)

Both have a kill-a-watt voltage meter, both using Lenovo laptops, both the multimeter and the voltage meter are the same distance away from each other in the multiplug.




Of course he would.... they're mining on his pool! At ~$250 a day wouldn't you?




The topic obviously has ramifications for http://www.betsofbitco.in/item?id=1352 as well (shipping before mid-April)...
However the "All Butterfly Labs employees or affiliates are discounted" means that Luke-Jr would be discounted to be fair.

Seems like you have something to hide.
What would you have tell the mod behind the scenes that you cannot tell us?

Moreover, what makes you think this bet was a draw despite your weesely and unsuccessfull attempt to meet the criteria.

You must be a shill to judge BFL shipped here. +1 to the scammer tag, but I doubt it will happen.

I wasn't even betting on this one.
But it was obvious on a lot of points, that BFL had failed to do it.

They said they include the title in the agreement

I'm fully aware that, their has been changes to what they will say each of these will do. Changing them respectively to 4.5 / 60 / 1500.
Also added a "Little SC Single", which is 30Gh/s. I'm sure there was further tweaks, as I did not follow it that closely.
This was done after the bet was issued apparently, so it is questionable to allow the change in hashrate, to add a device, can't really be taken into account. The original bet was talking about the original 3, not this added 4th one.


#Point 2

BFL Customer or Employee - He appears to be somewhere in the middle. He clearly got 1st dibs on it, for "work" he did, so he is certainly not a normal customer, but he is not an on the books employee.

The pictures were provided by Josh (BFL Employee), showing a prototype, hashing just a few hours and posted just after the deadline. The "device" was still at BFL labs (ie. Not shipped), Luke appears to operate the computer remotely.


#Point 3

The device does hash, but the 75% requirement being met doesn't matter as it doesn't meet it or doesn't apply. It hashes at about 24-25Gh/s, Since either it's a SC single (75% of 40Gh/s is 30Gh/s) and it doesn't meet the requirement or it's a Little SC single and it doesn't count as one of the original 3.


Summary

It was ruled as a draw by BoB, even though it clearly was not. They failed at every point. So It was "True", 'BFL would not ship'.

Further more, it was clearly stated no commission would be taken, but I've already seen reports that people are indeed being hit with one.
BoB made a bad decision too quickly, on one of the hottest discussions in bitcoin for a long time now (which also had a bet on) and instead of investigating properly, just pulled out the Draw card instead. It was so hotly debated, not because it being close true/false situation, but because BFL and the BFL supporters were actually trying to steal a win at the last minute. It appears they succeeded in some small way, and BoB helped them.
If the reports of commissions actually still being taken are true, BoB has managed to take a cut from both sides in this rather large bet.

Those directly associated with BoB deserve a scammer tag.

Oh, thank god science, you're right.


Agreed.

I don't know if I would call this a scam, not just yet. But clearly a bad and unjust call by the referee which decided the game against those who actually scored the goals and rightfully deserved to win it.
As for Luke - By siding with the losing side on this with his supposedly-clever word-playing, he comes off, at the very least, as a major a bull***t artist. It's the same kind of bull***t artistry I got used to seeing from BFL over the time I've been following them since I ordered (and now - waiting for my refund).

+1 on "scammer tag" for this site and guy!  If MNW gets one he should get one to

- The device wasn't shipped.
- An employee(Josh Z) took the photo displaying a working ASIC (could be fake)
- Status of Luke-Jr as a BFL employee is not clear
- Little SC wasn't part of the bet! Only the jalapeño, the Single SC and the Rig take part in the bet!


I have no stake in this bet.

Id be willing to guess that BFL or affils bet on bets "that they will ship" to increase customer interest/convince that they will/self-disbelief.

I'd love to be able to see who bet they'd actaully ship (which they didnt)

Anyway, obvious scam tag.

Vomit-inducing, isn't it?  
But don't worry, I don't *think* you're agreeing with him. Luke (the whore) is under the impression that BFL clearly WON that bet. No word yet on what kickbacks Josh is giving him to continue insisting on that line. Whereas you (and I) merely hold that a draw is a marginally acceptable outcome.

But I [sarc]really hope[/sarc] that the battle lines continue to be hardened and that my so-far utterly non-descript reputation on these boards becomes dependent on which side of the Josh/Luke-Micon axis I must apparently jump in to defend.  

ETA: re the suggestion that CoinJedi may have placed on that bet - well obviously if that was the case there'd be a serious conflict of interest and I'd join everyone else in calling for a scammer tag for CoinJedi.

Unless Inaba bet some coins, or CoinJedi bet some coins.

how can it be a draw..

they either shipped or they didn't...

Yep. BoB gets less money from a draw than a win or lose.

-1.

Call it a poor decision on BoB's part if you like. But unless you have some sort of proof of their collusion with Josh and Luke, it's not a scam. Nor is it stealing. Unless you are a serious gambling addict.

rediculous this is a draw

IF we ignore the bold title (no, when I buy eggs, I expect eggs), then the post is FAR from credible. 

BFL did not ship, how is this not a trivial resolution?