Topic: CoinJoin: Bitcoin privacy for the real world - page 10. (Read 294672 times)

Fantastic!

I cannot code but I would love to see this project develop. If anybody wants to develop a wallet I'm sure there are many people like myself that would donate to help make it happen.

Some links from reddit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YDGUUtDqNV0
Coinshuffle: Trustless, Peer-to-Peer Bitcoin Mixing


Links:
Demos
http://shuffle.devbtc.com
http://simulator.devbtc.com
Github
https://github.com/bryanvu/coinshuffle-server
https://github.com/bryanvu/coinshuffle-sim
https://github.com/bryanvu/bitcoinjslib-wallet

Cross posting a coinjoin conversation:

That's why some wallet makers will be implementing this as the default transaction method. Average users won't even know they are doing it.

This is cool to know, but I speculate that the average user wouldn't want this functionality. Of course those with security concerns or those trying to hide coins would absolutely love this service.

The larger the pool the better and it might make it easier for ad hoc transactions if everyone cooperated on using popular servers.

FYI, Mycelium's development roadmap is

1) Implement HD wallets (about 95%+ done, and works fine in testnet Dev build, but still need to update LocalTrader and other minor things to work with it)
2) Move the entire infrastructure to Tor, meaning our nodes will be run as hidden servers, only accessible through Tor, and Mycelium Wallet will have Tor built in (hopefully this won't cause problems in blocked countries, like China or Iran)
3) Implement CoinJoin, using our nodes that are used for address lookup and broadcasts, to collect and broadcast mixing requests. Likely enable this as a default feature. We'll have to figure out if we'll need to follow the DarkWallet model of letting some users leave their coins to mix, or if we have enough transaction volume to do it on the fly. Maybe we'll even link with DarkWallet servers, and use the people looking to mix there.

There is little benefit to negotiation over the Bitcoin network protocol for traditional CoinJoin's besides eliminating the need for an additional networking layer.

On the downside, adding additional messages to the network protocol is likely an irksome process, and is not very flexible. A separate network may be rapidly iterated upon, and other shared transactions other that traditional CoinJoins may be added.

In regards to Tor, for Java there exists the Orchid library, which allows Tor to be easily integrated within Java applications. The main benefit of using Tor Hidden Services (to me at least, if I am understanding things correctly) is not really anonymity, but rather NAT traversal. Without Tor, you have to keep a port open to allow users to connect to you node and perform a decentralized CoinJoin. Tor hidden services connect to Tor Relays, and therefore do not require any ports to be open. As long as the NAT/firewall allows outgoing Tor connections, everything works out.

EDIT:
I forgot to mention, a downside of using Tor is that TomP2P and all other Java DHT libraries that I know of require ports to be open to ensure the integrity of DHT (if no nodes are hosting the DHT information, what's the point?). As such, in order to make the DHT robust the code would have to be extended to facilitate Tor Hidden services. This doesn't even address the fact that using a DHT to facilitate CoinJoining between number of users n>2 is a real pain.

Hence, decentralizing peer discovery is a job for another day week month.

This would require all nodes to run Tor! Why not do the CoinJoin negotiation over BTC's network protocol, which the nodes participate in anyway? This way, those who use BTC through Tor also do the negotiation through Tor, but no one has to.

I'm going to explain how Bitcoin can be used as a defencive weapon that allows the younger generation to avoid paying the debts bestowed upon them by the older generation, and how if they wield it correctly they'll collapse the fiat debt ponzi scheme, the tax base, and the US Dollar itself, with specific instructions for how to get started.

It's going to do great things for the public perception of Bitcoin.

Well that's always been my defense when explaining Bitcoin to people and they point out the issues with recent happening with mt gox and money laundering. Bitcoin does nothing less than cash does related to the legal side of things.

But, I'm just saying this sort of thing is adding fuel to the engine and could potentially make things a lot worse.

... like cash enables thieves "even more" ...  

money needs to be functional as an economic unit ... rather than fulfill every utopian fantasy bestowed upon it

Link it to me and I'll tell you if I "love" it or not


/ot

I'm really trying to figure this out and try to address some of my concerns and I believe this would result in a lot of accusations flying out.

You're gonna *love* my next blog post...

I was talking about how people compare Bitcoin users to criminals we all know it happens because of laundry for one example. Then this would just give those accusers more leverage because with this enabled technically everyone would be breaking the law.


Making Bitcoin illegal in every country if this is enabled. Unless I'm not fully grasping something I think that's what this is all about and could cause a few problems.

I can see why this would be beneficial to the network and the general user of Bitcoin but I can also see it enabling thieves even more.

It also has technical benefits for the network in terms of reduced overheads.

btw, bitcoin is legal, it has no "legal problems". You are probably confused by the enormous legal complexities of handling government fiat.

So let me try and figure this out this is a little out of my league but here it goes:

Effectively you are creating a mixing service within the Bitcoin network itself? Making privacy better because no one can track where you sent your Bitcoin because it is split up and combined with other peoples transactions. Surely this has already been done by several mixing services?

Wouldn't this create more legal problems for Bitcoin? If this is what you want to achieve surely it's illegal because this can be abused very easily.

This is amazing, i will definitly keep an eye on this.

If you are writing a Java library and are planning on using a DHT, have a look at TomP2P.  Its what i used in http://coinmux.com.