I don't think that the people at cointerra are stupid as much as I guess they must have found all the investments they need from somewhere else, cuz I can't see them getting it here.
This! 
Topic: CoinTerra announces its first ASIC - Hash-Rate greater than 500 GH/s - page 111. (Read 231002 times)
August 20, 2013, 04:58:28 PM
August 20, 2013, 04:55:01 PM
For all this talk of efficiency, it seems that in comparing knc vs cointerra on tgb calc, the monthly profit seems to go negative pretty much within a month of each other.
Electricity costs are negligible at this stage of the game.
Also, I agree with everyone who thinks it is overpriced, though when people were thinking 10% below BFL, I was thinking more like 50% would have been okay.
I don't think that the people at cointerra are stupid as much as I guess they must have found all the investments they need from somewhere else, cuz I can't see them getting it here.
It might be a good buy in November, when we have a better idea what the difficulty will be in December. But there is too much between now and then.
Electricity costs are negligible at this stage of the game.
Also, I agree with everyone who thinks it is overpriced, though when people were thinking 10% below BFL, I was thinking more like 50% would have been okay.
I don't think that the people at cointerra are stupid as much as I guess they must have found all the investments they need from somewhere else, cuz I can't see them getting it here.
It might be a good buy in November, when we have a better idea what the difficulty will be in December. But there is too much between now and then.
Agreed :-)
August 20, 2013, 05:37:25 AM
For all this talk of efficiency, it seems that in comparing knc vs cointerra on tgb calc, the monthly profit seems to go negative pretty much within a month of each other.
Electricity costs are negligible at this stage of the game.
Also, I agree with everyone who thinks it is overpriced, though when people were thinking 10% below BFL, I was thinking more like 50% would have been okay.
I don't think that the people at cointerra are stupid as much as I guess they must have found all the investments they need from somewhere else, cuz I can't see them getting it here.
It might be a good buy in November, when we have a better idea what the difficulty will be in December. But there is too much between now and then.
Electricity costs are negligible at this stage of the game.
Also, I agree with everyone who thinks it is overpriced, though when people were thinking 10% below BFL, I was thinking more like 50% would have been okay.
I don't think that the people at cointerra are stupid as much as I guess they must have found all the investments they need from somewhere else, cuz I can't see them getting it here.
It might be a good buy in November, when we have a better idea what the difficulty will be in December. But there is too much between now and then.
August 20, 2013, 05:21:59 AM
I am not saying you should buy this or it is a good deal. For the record you probably shouldn't and I don't think this is a good deal.
Regardless it doesn't make your projection of difficulty breaking 700 million in January and 1.1 trillion by the end of 2014 any less dubious. At some point growth will move from exponential to linear (i.e. + x GH/s per month ).
Regardless it doesn't make your projection of difficulty breaking 700 million in January and 1.1 trillion by the end of 2014 any less dubious. At some point growth will move from exponential to linear (i.e. + x GH/s per month ).
1.1 trillion
I assume you are using the long scale?
August 20, 2013, 02:39:29 AM
I am not saying you should buy this or it is a good deal. For the record you probably shouldn't and I don't think this is a good deal.
Regardless it doesn't make your projection of difficulty breaking 700 million in January and 1.1 trillion by the end of 2014 any less dubious. At some point growth will move from exponential to linear (i.e. + x GH/s per month ).
Regardless it doesn't make your projection of difficulty breaking 700 million in January and 1.1 trillion by the end of 2014 any less dubious. At some point growth will move from exponential to linear (i.e. + x GH/s per month ).
I completely agree. It has to, there simply aren't that many rich idiots floating around. The question is, at what point will it level off and at what efficiency will you be profitable.
Cointerra had an opportunity here to be the far and away clear choice for long term mining. They have effectively missed the boat and I'm admittedly a little bitter about it.
What they did was blatantly lie. Or stretch the wording so much that in the real world you would call them scumbag liars. They come out with quotes "that if you like replacing miners every few months go with our competitors".
Yet, these fucking morons are priced even worst then their competition and their devices will be even more useless. Their ROI based on their delivery date is insulting, are they really expecting people to pay $16,000 to potentially months later make a $4,000.
These guys are just as bad as BFL, it's funny though they think they can get away with it and not be called out on it. They are even grimier than BFL.
Cointerra FUCK YOU SCUM
August 20, 2013, 01:47:48 AM
Cointerra had an opportunity here to be the far and away clear choice for long term mining. They have effectively missed the boat and I'm admittedly a little bitter about it.
Bingo - Cointerra blew it big time. Great engineering team -- lousy marketers. If they had even been 10 - 15% below the Monarch they would have nailed it. BFL is not a tough act to follow and there are no other producing or prospective US based competitors even close on $/GH level. Completely ridiculous.
The thing is these companies don't care. We pay for the expensive R&D and after they're done with that, they don't need us anymore. They can make as many units as they want and self mine if it's more profitable than selling them. All they need us for is to fund the R&D so that they can make ASICs for themselves at cost for the rest of eternity. Everyone seems to be thinking that we're helping out the bitcoin economy by ordering from these companies, but in reality we're just increasing their pocketbooks.
Well said.
August 20, 2013, 01:42:06 AM
Cointerra had an opportunity here to be the far and away clear choice for long term mining. They have effectively missed the boat and I'm admittedly a little bitter about it.
Bingo - Cointerra blew it big time. Great engineering team -- lousy marketers. If they had even been 10 - 15% below the Monarch they would have nailed it. BFL is not a tough act to follow and there are no other producing or prospective US based competitors even close on $/GH level. Completely ridiculous.
The thing is these companies don't care. We pay for the expensive R&D and after they're done with that, they don't need us anymore. They can make as many units as they want and self mine if it's more profitable than selling them. All they need us for is to fund the R&D so that they can make ASICs for themselves at cost for the rest of eternity. Everyone seems to be thinking that we're helping out the bitcoin economy by ordering from these companies, but in reality we're just increasing their pocketbooks.
August 20, 2013, 01:35:41 AM
Cointerra had an opportunity here to be the far and away clear choice for long term mining. They have effectively missed the boat and I'm admittedly a little bitter about it.
Bingo - Cointerra blew it big time. Great engineering team -- lousy marketers. If they had even been 10 - 15% below the Monarch they would have nailed it. BFL is not a tough act to follow and there are no other producing or prospective US based competitors even close on $/GH level. Completely ridiculous.
August 20, 2013, 01:05:41 AM
I am not saying you should buy this or it is a good deal. For the record you probably shouldn't and I don't think this is a good deal.
Regardless it doesn't make your projection of difficulty breaking 700 million in January and 1.1 trillion by the end of 2014 any less dubious. At some point growth will move from exponential to linear (i.e. + x GH/s per month ).
Regardless it doesn't make your projection of difficulty breaking 700 million in January and 1.1 trillion by the end of 2014 any less dubious. At some point growth will move from exponential to linear (i.e. + x GH/s per month ).
Fair enough - the point being here is that there are too many variables that are unknown but in the aggregate any scenario does not favour (yes, I am Canadian) consumer or retail miners. Mining will go institutional and be a dividend or yield driven investment much like the 'regular' investment market. Nominal returns will level out to be market competitive with bonds. An (ahem) investment in mining hardware will no longer be a proxy for speculating in the future value of BTC. The reason we are having these conversations now is because of the circumstances around a preorder driven market place. The next 3 - 6 months will see a huge shift in BTC mining away from retail and into a ultra high net worth individual, corporate or institutional paradigm.
It will also be a very interesting time for the Scrypt based altcoin world.
August 19, 2013, 09:40:38 PM
I am not saying you should buy this or it is a good deal. For the record you probably shouldn't and I don't think this is a good deal.
Regardless it doesn't make your projection of difficulty breaking 700 million in January and 1.1 trillion by the end of 2014 any less dubious. At some point growth will move from exponential to linear (i.e. + x GH/s per month ).
Regardless it doesn't make your projection of difficulty breaking 700 million in January and 1.1 trillion by the end of 2014 any less dubious. At some point growth will move from exponential to linear (i.e. + x GH/s per month ).
I completely agree. It has to, there simply aren't that many rich idiots floating around. The question is, at what point will it level off and at what efficiency will you be profitable.
Cointerra had an opportunity here to be the far and away clear choice for long term mining. They have effectively missed the boat and I'm admittedly a little bitter about it.
August 19, 2013, 09:38:15 PM
I am not saying you should buy this or it is a good deal. For the record you probably shouldn't and I don't think this is a good deal.
Regardless it doesn't make your projection of difficulty breaking 700 million in January and 1.1 trillion by the end of 2014 any less dubious. At some point growth will move from exponential to linear (i.e. + x GH/s per month ).
Regardless it doesn't make your projection of difficulty breaking 700 million in January and 1.1 trillion by the end of 2014 any less dubious. At some point growth will move from exponential to linear (i.e. + x GH/s per month ).
August 19, 2013, 09:27:20 PM
Agree with all other comments here, this thing will never pay for itself, too late into the market and too over priced:
http://mining.thegenesisblock.com/a/294c1f0fab
http://mining.thegenesisblock.com/a/294c1f0fab
The sad thing is, this is more likely:
http://mining.thegenesisblock.com/a/1edc4b3911
You lose 75% of your investment.
Yes difficulty reaching >1 trillion is highly likely.
I would point out that even with free hardware, $0.10 electricity and <1W per GH the exchange rate would need to be $42,860 per BTC. In other words miners would be paying $42,860 in electricity (or more if they have less efficient rigs) to mine one BTC.
Awesome analysis.
If people were waiting until hardware was available to purchase then you would be correct. Do you think all of these pre-orders are going to be delivered and not used?
Eventually the exponential network hashrate increases will level off and stabilize. The problem is, I don't believe these devices will ROI before that happens. Sure, you'll be the only one making more than electricity costs, but it'll take you years to break even.
Damned if you do and all that...
edit...
Do you really want to spend 15k on a product that MIGHT break even, and even if it does will only barely cover electricity costs until 22nm <.6 W/Gh technology hits the market? The bitcoin space has more lucrative investment possibilities. This is a loser at the current price point.
August 19, 2013, 09:23:30 PM
Agree with all other comments here, this thing will never pay for itself, too late into the market and too over priced:
http://mining.thegenesisblock.com/a/294c1f0fab
http://mining.thegenesisblock.com/a/294c1f0fab
The sad thing is, this is more likely:
http://mining.thegenesisblock.com/a/1edc4b3911
You lose 75% of your investment.
Yes difficulty reaching >1 trillion is highly likely.
I would point out that even with free hardware, $0.10 electricity and <1W per GH the exchange rate would need to be $42,860 per BTC. In other words miners would be paying $42,860 in electricity (or more if they have less efficient rigs) to mine one BTC.
Awesome analysis.
August 19, 2013, 07:09:32 PM
Agree with all other comments here, this thing will never pay for itself, too late into the market and too over priced:
http://mining.thegenesisblock.com/a/294c1f0fab
http://mining.thegenesisblock.com/a/294c1f0fab
August 19, 2013, 09:16:27 PM
Agree with all other comments here, this thing will never pay for itself, too late into the market and too over priced:
http://mining.thegenesisblock.com/a/294c1f0fab
http://mining.thegenesisblock.com/a/294c1f0fab
The sad thing is, this is more likely:
http://mining.thegenesisblock.com/a/1edc4b3911
You lose 75% of your investment.
August 19, 2013, 05:50:12 PM
yup. this is garbage. i expected better. xcrowd i goooo
August 19, 2013, 05:49:03 PM
they got greedy and cocky. thats what happen when you put a bunch of elite engineers together. you get overpriced salaries and over priced products.
Where is the punch line?
Where is the punch line?
August 19, 2013, 04:50:26 PM
Why - tell me why - did I sign up for the cointerra email when thegenesisblock breaks the story on their offering? Nothing updated on the cointerrra site yet.
http://thegenesisblock.com/cointerra-announces-2ths-asic-bitcoin-miner-for-15750/
Also, while I am at it.... what a wasted opportunity to establish market leadership - they simply matched the price of BFL on a / GH basis.
Barely breaks even based on the recent rate of increase in difficulty if they actually deliver in December.
http://mining.thegenesisblock.com/a/6f382061fa
Input your own difficulty rate increase assumption if you don't agree with 75% per month
Wow. I am very underwhelmed.
http://thegenesisblock.com/cointerra-announces-2ths-asic-bitcoin-miner-for-15750/
Also, while I am at it.... what a wasted opportunity to establish market leadership - they simply matched the price of BFL on a / GH basis.
Barely breaks even based on the recent rate of increase in difficulty if they actually deliver in December.
http://mining.thegenesisblock.com/a/6f382061fa
Input your own difficulty rate increase assumption if you don't agree with 75% per month
Wow. I am very underwhelmed.
So you are assuming difficulty in nov 2014 is : 224,657,000,000 or total hashrate : 1,610,444 TH
Let's say 1TH is 600Watt: total power consumption will be
966,266,666 watt or 8,464,496,000 kwh each year
Say the average kwh cost is 0,15$ / kwh
This means electricity cost of all miners is
1,269,674,400 dollars each year
JUST TO BREAK EVEN ON ELECTRICITY BTC HAS TO BE:
BTC = 966$
:-)
August 19, 2013, 04:35:58 PM
Why - tell me why - did I sign up for the cointerra email when thegenesisblock breaks the story on their offering? Nothing updated on the cointerrra site yet.
http://thegenesisblock.com/cointerra-announces-2ths-asic-bitcoin-miner-for-15750/
Also, while I am at it.... what a wasted opportunity to establish market leadership - they simply matched the price of BFL on a / GH basis.
Barely breaks even based on the recent rate of increase in difficulty if they actually deliver in December.
http://mining.thegenesisblock.com/a/6f382061fa
Input your own difficulty rate increase assumption if you don't agree with 75% per month
Wow. I am very underwhelmed.
http://thegenesisblock.com/cointerra-announces-2ths-asic-bitcoin-miner-for-15750/
Also, while I am at it.... what a wasted opportunity to establish market leadership - they simply matched the price of BFL on a / GH basis.
Barely breaks even based on the recent rate of increase in difficulty if they actually deliver in December.
http://mining.thegenesisblock.com/a/6f382061fa
Input your own difficulty rate increase assumption if you don't agree with 75% per month
Wow. I am very underwhelmed.
August 18, 2013, 03:18:38 PM
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