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Topic: CoinTerra announces its first ASIC - Hash-Rate greater than 500 GH/s - page 121. (Read 231016 times)

full member
Activity: 238
Merit: 100
Will it be a preorder? (hope not Cheesy))
Or will you send the chips immediately(few days) after payment?

Yes, they are doing a pre-order. It says so on their website.

If they succeed, when they are done their chips will go to the people who pre-ordered.

The thing is that if you've been in this for a while, or have money to burn, then no biggie on a pre-order to keep up with the arms race.  Some of us are relatively new to the scene.  Take my group, for example, we've got thousands sitting in an account waiting for us to make a hardware decision, however it simply isn't worth investing at this point because there is no clear quasi-safe move.  If we were mining since 2010, had a BTC wallet as fat as a cow, and could pay for all our pre-orders with either BTC direct or by doing a small dump to an exchange, that's a different story.  But people putting fresh cash into pre-orders right now is kinda nuts.

That's true, although what sucks for people who pre-ordered from BFL is that they would probably have hoarded their coins if BFL hadn't taken them, and at the time they were worth a lot less.  If you ordered a Jalapeno you probably paid about 20-40btc. If you ordered a mini-rig that would have been maybe 3000BTC. Little chance you'll ever see that again.

On the other hand, it's pretty unlikely that the price of BTC is going to go up by 10x like it did last year around this time.
sr. member
Activity: 420
Merit: 250
I hope most of you are serious about being done with preorders.

There will be more of these leftover for me. Muhahaha  Grin

Cointerra sounds like a very experienced team, I want to give them my money to make this happen!

The thing is that if you've been in this for a while, or have money to burn, then no biggie on a pre-order to keep up with the arms race.  Some of us are relatively new to the scene.  Take my group, for example, we've got thousands sitting in an account waiting for us to make a hardware decision, however it simply isn't worth investing at this point because there is no clear quasi-safe move.  If we were mining since 2010, had a BTC wallet as fat as a cow, and could pay for all our pre-orders with either BTC direct or by doing a small dump to an exchange, that's a different story.  But people putting fresh cash into pre-orders right now is kinda nuts.
newbie
Activity: 52
Merit: 0
Will it be a preorder? (hope not Cheesy))
Or will you send the chips immediately(few days) after payment?
legendary
Activity: 1484
Merit: 1026
In Cryptocoins I Trust
I hope most of you are serious about being done with preorders.

There will be more of these leftover for me. Muhahaha  Grin

Cointerra sounds like a very experienced team, I want to give them my money to make this happen!
full member
Activity: 238
Merit: 100
Yes We are All Done with Pre Orders, No More Pre Orders!!

+++1

Eh, speak for yourselves.  I did a Avalon B2 pre-order and it worked out fine for me.  I also have a KnC on pre-order.

However, at this rate I doubt I'll "invest" much more in mining equipment until the difficulty levels off a little, unless Cointerra is very, very cheap.
member
Activity: 374
Merit: 35
i refuse to pre-order ... no more! Angry

I'm done with pre-orders as well. In a couple of months, a clear ASIC mining hardware leader should emerge and difficulty should stabilize to the point that buyers actually have enough information to calculate ROI with some degree of accuracy.

Right now, pre-orders are just gambling because mining manufacturers constantly miss promised delivery dates and difficulty is skyrocketing.

Yes We are All Done with Pre Orders, No More Pre Orders!!

+++1
eve
full member
Activity: 210
Merit: 100
i refuse to pre-order ... no more! Angry

I'm done with pre-orders as well. In a couple of months, a clear ASIC mining hardware leader should emerge and difficulty should stabilize to the point that buyers actually have enough information to calculate ROI with some degree of accuracy.

Right now, pre-orders are just gambling because mining manufacturers constantly miss promised delivery dates and difficulty is skyrocketing.

Yes We are All Done with Pre Orders, No More Pre Orders!!
full member
Activity: 238
Merit: 100
Sure if they are willing to risk millions of their own money, or private equity, which would be mad.
This is where you and I disagree.  While this is probably not the venue for this debate, I'll just say (again) that a fully-funded chip development would provide three avenues of cost recovery and opportunity for either vertically integrating, or pursuing least-crowded-space business planning.

With chip/board in hand, the vendor could either (1) sell retail, thereby eating everyone else's lunch even at a competitive price; (2) offer on-going shared participation in a hashing operation, passing through the BTC to the participants, or (3) mine privately, keeping the fungibility risk and attendant costs of network presence.

Again, I don't think this is the venue for a back and forth on this; we don't want to hijack this thread too badly.

We know each other's positions on pre-order, and will likely have plenty of opportunity to debate as the summer turns to fall.   

ASICMiner, as well as Labcoin and BTCGarden are all funded by a more "traditional" investment style where people buy shares and get a cut of the profit.  The only unusual things about them was that they were done using infrastructure over bitcoin. 

Problem for a U.S. company is that that's highly legally questionable here in the U.S due to laws regulating securities.  We are actually supposed to have a new law that would allow "normal" people to invest some money in startups, but regulators haven't written up the "regulations" dealing with that today.

If Cointerra were to do a Labcoin/BTCGarden style IPO they would probably be able to raise millions of dollars that way.  But it would be legally iffy for all involved.
full member
Activity: 238
Merit: 100
If you are ok with discarding your KNC product in a couple of months after purchase, then go for it.

That's going to be mostly true of ANY bitcoin mining product, including yours. It's likely a KnC will mostly pay for itself before your chips get on the network.

I expect my B2 Avalon won't be doing much a few months from now either, but for now it's quite nice.

It would be like AMD saying.
Quote
Our 9970 GPU will have a largish amount of transistors and moreish than 5,000 TFLOPS in OpenCL performance and TDP will be 100W to 1,000W or so. Oh and it will be one of* the most powerful GPUs in the world.
Lol

Anyway, I like this guys attitude. Nothing wrong with being confident, they certainly have the resumes to back that up - we'll see if they have the ability to execute as well.
hero member
Activity: 574
Merit: 501
Pretty much my feeling about things.  I think I've got about 100K tied up in "pre-orders" at this point.  I have about an equal budget of $$ to spend still, but I'll be spending somewhere that provides "off the shelf" delivery and Fedex shipping.  I pay today, I get product tomorrow.  Period.  I will not play pre-order games anymore.
sr. member
Activity: 420
Merit: 250
you cant be completely right on both points.  if mining manufacturers are missing promised delivery dates then difficulty shouldn't be skyrocketing...   so someone somewhere is delivering their mining asics!


Right now, pre-orders are just gambling because mining manufacturers constantly miss promised delivery dates and difficulty is skyrocketing.

Yes I can be right on both counts. Most mining manufacturers simply deliver late, making it impossible to calculate ROI with any degree of accuracy.

The larger problem is taking pre-orders for a product that will deliver (hashing) for (price,wattage) when what really matters is difficulty.  A .5TH unit may be the equivalent of a BFL Single by the end of the year if everyone who says they will deliver manages to deliver, plus the 'unknown' factor adds even more doubt. 

No more "pre-orders", either have a product or don't.  If you come out of left field and can deliver next week you will clean up and can retire.
hero member
Activity: 742
Merit: 500
you cant be completely right on both points.  if mining manufacturers are missing promised delivery dates then difficulty shouldn't be skyrocketing...   so someone somewhere is delivering their mining asics!


Right now, pre-orders are just gambling because mining manufacturers constantly miss promised delivery dates and difficulty is skyrocketing.

Yes I can be right on both counts. Most mining manufacturers simply deliver late, making it impossible to calculate ROI with any degree of accuracy.
newbie
Activity: 48
Merit: 0
you cant be completely right on both points.  if mining manufacturers are missing promised delivery dates then difficulty shouldn't be skyrocketing...   so someone somewhere is delivering their mining asics!


Right now, pre-orders are just gambling because mining manufacturers constantly miss promised delivery dates and difficulty is skyrocketing.
What diff will be when your manufacturer deliver what he promise (without other competitor).
Many of them make own miner unprofitable if deliver all preordered units.
That is point...

hero member
Activity: 702
Merit: 500
you cant be completely right on both points.  if mining manufacturers are missing promised delivery dates then difficulty shouldn't be skyrocketing...   so someone somewhere is delivering their mining asics!


Right now, pre-orders are just gambling because mining manufacturers constantly miss promised delivery dates and difficulty is skyrocketing.
newbie
Activity: 37
Merit: 0
Great photo !

they seem happy.. but they could be anybody.. how convenient that your lens was smudged ;-)  !

I can attest there is no hostility at all between Cointerra and KnCMiner. Anyone attending Inside Bitcoins in New York could see Ravi and Sam chatting throughout the day.

Here's a shot I snapped of them at the EVR afterparty (forgive the poor quality, my lens was condensated): 



Compare with the linkedin profiles here:
http://www.linkedin.com/in/ravidiyengar
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/sam-cole/1/1a8/22

If you still think this isn't real you are gravely overestimating my photoshop skills ;-)
hero member
Activity: 742
Merit: 500
i refuse to pre-order ... no more! Angry

I'm done with pre-orders as well. In a couple of months, a clear ASIC mining hardware leader should emerge and difficulty should stabilize to the point that buyers actually have enough information to calculate ROI with some degree of accuracy.

Right now, pre-orders are just gambling because mining manufacturers constantly miss promised delivery dates and difficulty is skyrocketing.
legendary
Activity: 1974
Merit: 1003
i refuse to pre-order ... no more! Angry
donator
Activity: 1218
Merit: 1079
Gerald Davis
a hash rate greater than 0.5TH at a power consumption of significantly less than 1 watt/GH.

That sounds like 600TH/s with 300W power consumption.
Very hard to believe.

You have your G and T mixed up.

I meant GH/s, but I still find it hard to believe for a 600GH/s device to consume like 300W

It is all marketing of the words "greater" and "significant".  520 GH/s @ 480W would meet the "definition".  That is why I pointed out there is no spec.  Lots of range in words like "greater" and "significant".  Significant to who.  Some would say 10% better than anyone else is significant (and it probably is in the long run).  You have obviously taken significant to mean 2x better which it probably isn't.
hero member
Activity: 702
Merit: 500
I think this underlines the difference that was discussed earlier.  those asic companies that take investment up front have no incentive to sell any hardware to other people and are incentivised to mine themselves (and there are rumours of big companies doing that - episode 22 of Adam Levine's letstalkbitcoin for instance).... and those that take pre-orders have a business selling mining equipment to other miners.   its two quite different business models.


beside the preorders facts, i ve got a presentation from cointerra where they only shows their interests in mining for themselves and not only selling miners

what is your exact plan?

i ve got a ppt presentation where all this is detailled →i can put it online if someone needs it


That is outdated. We do NOT plan to mine. We only plan retail sales.
hero member
Activity: 702
Merit: 500
Great photo !

they seem happy.. but they could be anybody.. how convenient that your lens was smudged ;-)  !

I can attest there is no hostility at all between Cointerra and KnCMiner. Anyone attending Inside Bitcoins in New York could see Ravi and Sam chatting throughout the day.

Here's a shot I snapped of them at the EVR afterparty (forgive the poor quality, my lens was condensated): 


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