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Topic: Communism vs Free World= Kamala vs Trump. (Read 31 times)

legendary
Activity: 2688
Merit: 2071
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October 08, 2024, 10:18:14 PM
#3
You're not going to like to hear this, but communism is not about "equal outcomes".   It's about equal distribution or access/availability of goods and services through a market and economy fully controlled by the state.

In a communist society, people don't own property.  There are no free markets.

It's ironic, but Marx would agree with a lot of the arguments being made by right wingers who include 'communism' and 'equality of outcomes' in their rhetoric (except for what communism is implied to be):

Quote
What we have to deal with here is a communist society, not as it has developed on its own foundations, but, on the contrary, just as it emerges from capitalist society; which is thus in every respect, economically, morally, and intellectually, still stamped with the birthmarks of the old society from whose womb it emerges. Accordingly, the individual producer receives back from society – after the deductions have been made – exactly what he gives to it. What he has given to it is his individual quantum of labor. For example, the social working day consists of the sum of the individual hours of work; the individual labor time of the individual producer is the part of the social working day contributed by him, his share in it. He receives a certificate from society that he has furnished such-and-such an amount of labor (after deducting his labor for the common funds); and with this certificate, he draws from the social stock of means of consumption as much as the same amount of labor cost. The same amount of labor which he has given to society in one form, he receives back in another.

Here, obviously, the same principle prevails as that which regulates the exchange of commodities, as far as this is exchange of equal values. Content and form are changed, because under the altered circumstances no one can give anything except his labor, and because, on the other hand, nothing can pass to the ownership of individuals, except individual means of consumption. But as far as the distribution of the latter among the individual producers is concerned, the same principle prevails as in the exchange of commodity equivalents: a given amount of labor in one form is exchanged for an equal amount of labor in another form.

Hence, equal right here is still in principle – bourgeois right, although principle and practice are no longer at loggerheads, while the exchange of equivalents in commodity exchange exists only on the average and not in the individual case.

In spite of this advance, this equal right is still constantly stigmatized by a bourgeois limitation. The right of the producers is proportional to the labor they supply; the equality consists in the fact that measurement is made with an equal standard, labor.

But one man is superior to another physically, or mentally, and supplies more labor in the same time, or can labor for a longer time; and labor, to serve as a measure, must be defined by its duration or intensity, otherwise it ceases to be a standard of measurement. This equal right is an unequal right for unequal labor. It recognizes no class differences, because everyone is only a worker like everyone else; but it tacitly recognizes unequal individual endowment, and thus productive capacity, as a natural privilege. It is, therefore, a right of inequality, in its content, like every right. Right, by its very nature, can consist only in the application of an equal standard; but unequal individuals (and they would not be different individuals if they were not unequal) are measurable only by an equal standard insofar as they are brought under an equal point of view, are taken from one definite side only – for instance, in the present case, are regarded only as workers and nothing more is seen in them, everything else being ignored. Further, one worker is married, another is not; one has more children than another, and so on and so forth. Thus, with an equal performance of labor, and hence an equal in the social consumption fund, one will in fact receive more than another, one will be richer than another, and so on. To avoid all these defects, right, instead of being equal, would have to be unequal.
- Karl Marx
Critique of the Gotha Programme



When Kamala starts suggesting ideas that are distinct to communism, like that we'd be better off without free markets, or getting rid of the concept of private property, then it would make sense to call her a communist.


legendary
Activity: 3906
Merit: 1373
October 08, 2024, 03:31:45 PM
#2
Gradually people are seeing through the Cabala lies. You can only cover gravel up with delicious looking frosting for so long, before people will figure out their is gravel underneath.

Remember the old adage:
You can fool all the people some of the time, and
You can fool some of the people all the time, but
You can't fool all the people all of the time.


Cabala is losing it.

Cool
legendary
Activity: 1372
Merit: 2017
October 08, 2024, 02:12:46 PM
#1
In case it is not clear what is at stake in the upcoming US elections, it is necessary to remind ourselves of this:

VP Kamala Harris touts EQUITY: "Everybody should end up in the same place"

As much as she would deny being a communist if asked explicitly, she cannot hide it. She clearly says that everyone should not only start from the same place, which is impossible, but end up in the same place. And who would guarantee that? She does, a communist politician, who promises to achieve this through state planning.

Whenever this ideology has been tried to be implemented, it has always ended in the same way: genocides that make Hitler look like an amateur, political repression, massive population, exoduses, famines, etc. There is not a single time that such a political system has been tried and has not ended in atrocious dictatorships and genocide. And at the same time, the more people have killed that system and the more it has failed, the more popular it is with university professors and posh billionaires.

No Mrs. Harris, do not deceive people. In the civilised world we should be equal in rights and opportunities but neither equal in birth nor of course equal in results thanks to a politician, because in the same way that there are working people there are lazy people, also there are people who invest what they earn and there are people who spend it on whores and cocaine, so no, do not come here with a story of Alice in Wonderland to promise the impossible, as Marx, Lenin, Stalin, Pol Pot, Castro and Maduro among others did.

We have an election discussion thread but I didn't want this to be buried on a secondary page because this is the main issue at stake in this election: free world vs. price controls, censorship, impoverishment of the population caused by the policies taken and blaming it on capitalism, repression of individual freedom and so on and so forth.

Dedicated to my lefty friends suchmoon, paxmao and the rest.
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