Topic: Community Miner Design Discussion - page 19. (Read 34221 times)
I've seen TSSOP and QFP with belly pads.
Unless in the future they get the per-chip power needs below ~1 or 2watts at most you can't use TSSOP or QFP packages. I've never seen any used to remove that much heat from a die without slathering their bottoms with compound to let the board pull more heat away. Even then, iffy at best for power chips. QFN package are not only smaller but have the large contact pads to give direct bonding for power feed and heat removal.
...
I'm sorry to say this, but someone has to do it.
You must have spent too much time soldering with non-lead-free solder and are now suffering some latent effects of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_poisoning .
The numbers (of dollars and of days) just don't work out for that business model. Many people have had run that calculation independently and they all came to the same conclusion. They all could be wrong or you could be wrong.
I mean seriously: Spartan 3? Xilinx is already depreciating Spartan 6 and sampling Spartan 7. If not lead then maybe you need less sandwiches.
I'm sorry to say this, but someone has to do it.
You must have spent too much time soldering with non-lead-free solder and are now suffering some latent effects of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_poisoning .
The numbers (of dollars and of days) just don't work out for that business model. Many people have had run that calculation independently and they all came to the same conclusion. They all could be wrong or you could be wrong.
I mean seriously: Spartan 3? Xilinx is already depreciating Spartan 6 and sampling Spartan 7. If not lead then maybe you need less sandwiches.
It strikes me as weird this ad-hominem response of you, you have been generally toughtful on the forums when talking about hardware... maybe more sandwiches?
As always, when there's a market, there's opportunity, and there's little to no presence on the low-volume, low-tech requirement part of the market.
Maybe the numbers have been ran by peeps just looking for a quick buck. Wouldn't surprise me, most peeps here get scared by things as 12 month ROIs and such, which is like the minimum when dealing with traditional manufacture.
Also, as i said, 10 years without touching FPGAs, i know i'm out of touch there, but the market seems ripe with Spartan 3E and 6 modules, which i wouldn't have expected (i tought that would be long depreciated on the market already, but it seems i was wrong).
Finally, someone's bound to fill this niche, whoever does it first will have a good start in the field, as it stands today, we're probably watching a whole revolution start in front of our eyes, and big chip developers will eye this technology eventually.
As i've stated before on other threads, if there was a custom asic from the community, it could be done with either TSSOP or QFP, which would really be a hobbyist's boon. That, and the fact that everyone says it is expensive, but no-one has real numbers (apart from NotFuzzyWarm).
I just registered on OnSemi and they seem rather open about their process and even have FPGA to ASIC tutorials and such... It has been like, what, 10 years since the last time i touched an FPGA, and still seems like Spartan 3 is the hottest thing in the block. It shouldn't be THAT difficult to get a real quote based on a bitstream.... just sayin'
I'm sorry to say this, but someone has to do it.I just registered on OnSemi and they seem rather open about their process and even have FPGA to ASIC tutorials and such... It has been like, what, 10 years since the last time i touched an FPGA, and still seems like Spartan 3 is the hottest thing in the block. It shouldn't be THAT difficult to get a real quote based on a bitstream.... just sayin'
You must have spent too much time soldering with non-lead-free solder and are now suffering some latent effects of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lead_poisoning .
The numbers (of dollars and of days) just don't work out for that business model. Many people have had run that calculation independently and they all came to the same conclusion. They all could be wrong or you could be wrong.
I mean seriously: Spartan 3? Xilinx is already depreciating Spartan 6 and sampling Spartan 7. If not lead then maybe you need less sandwiches.
Maybe I need a sandwich also 
I just had two, imagine my happiness
Maybe I need a sandwich also
So, after skimming the thread a little... i only have one question to y'all:
Why the fuck aren't we organizing to get a community chip done?
I know, i know, scary asic costs and such, but does anyone have idea of the process? is anyone informed at all?
PlanetCrypto once suggested on another thread that they could deal with the asic side, if sidehack was willing to build the miners, did this die off? is someone around up to snuff for FPGA to ASIC design?
Why the fuck aren't we organizing to get a community chip done?
I know, i know, scary asic costs and such, but does anyone have idea of the process? is anyone informed at all?
PlanetCrypto once suggested on another thread that they could deal with the asic side, if sidehack was willing to build the miners, did this die off? is someone around up to snuff for FPGA to ASIC design?
If you read the thread and not skim it you will see that we do not have interest in producing large amounts -- all that does is help the big boys -- we want the hobbyists and home miners to have a miner.
So to be blunt, offsetting the costs of manufacturing an ASIC would require either a REALLY expensive miner or a whole bunch of miners -- NEITHER PERTAIN TO THIS THREAD
As i've stated before on other threads, if there was a custom asic from the community, it could be done with either TSSOP or QFP, which would really be a hobbyist's boon. That, and the fact that everyone says it is expensive, but no-one has real numbers (apart from NotFuzzyWarm).
I just registered on OnSemi and they seem rather open about their process and even have FPGA to ASIC tutorials and such... It has been like, what, 10 years since the last time i touched an FPGA, and still seems like Spartan 3 is the hottest thing in the block. It shouldn't be THAT difficult to get a real quote based on a bitstream.... just sayin'
Although... it would be pretty cool.
So, after skimming the thread a little... i only have one question to y'all:
Why the fuck aren't we organizing to get a community chip done?
I know, i know, scary asic costs and such, but does anyone have idea of the process? is anyone informed at all?
PlanetCrypto once suggested on another thread that they could deal with the asic side, if sidehack was willing to build the miners, did this die off? is someone around up to snuff for FPGA to ASIC design?
Why the fuck aren't we organizing to get a community chip done?
I know, i know, scary asic costs and such, but does anyone have idea of the process? is anyone informed at all?
PlanetCrypto once suggested on another thread that they could deal with the asic side, if sidehack was willing to build the miners, did this die off? is someone around up to snuff for FPGA to ASIC design?
If you read the thread and not skim it you will see that we do not have interest in producing large amounts -- all that does is help the big boys -- we want the hobbyists and home miners to have a miner.
So to be blunt, offsetting the costs of manufacturing an ASIC would require either a REALLY expensive miner or a whole bunch of miners -- NEITHER PERTAIN TO THIS THREAD
So, after skimming the thread a little... i only have one question to y'all:
Why the fuck aren't we organizing to get a community chip done?
I know, i know, scary asic costs and such, but does anyone have idea of the process? is anyone informed at all?
PlanetCrypto once suggested on another thread that they could deal with the asic side, if sidehack was willing to build the miners, did this die off? is someone around up to snuff for FPGA to ASIC design?
For a start. perhaps someone here can do an ASIC die layout. If so, Why the fuck aren't we organizing to get a community chip done?
I know, i know, scary asic costs and such, but does anyone have idea of the process? is anyone informed at all?
PlanetCrypto once suggested on another thread that they could deal with the asic side, if sidehack was willing to build the miners, did this die off? is someone around up to snuff for FPGA to ASIC design?
Then the real expensive part comes: I don't know first-hand about TSMC but - we work with the #1 chip packaging company in Taiwan - folks that mount the silicon die into the final chip package - and they will not even talk to a customer without a 100k$ up-front minimum to even look at the design & mfg of it. That is just to get past the initial sales meeting and have them evaluate the feasibility of your product with no guarantees of it being viable.If going for 16/14nm node I'd bet TSMC and any other foundry is going to ask for no less to look at producing the dies. Also based solely and explicitly on what you tell them to do they will do it, even if the design itself is wrong or not properly spec'd to the last detail. If you want design suggestions from them regarding your design specs and expectations - that costs extra and you MUST ask for their input.
So, after skimming the thread a little... i only have one question to y'all:
Why the fuck aren't we organizing to get a community chip done?
I know, i know, scary asic costs and such, but does anyone have idea of the process? is anyone informed at all?
PlanetCrypto once suggested on another thread that they could deal with the asic side, if sidehack was willing to build the miners, did this die off? is someone around up to snuff for FPGA to ASIC design?
Why the fuck aren't we organizing to get a community chip done?
I know, i know, scary asic costs and such, but does anyone have idea of the process? is anyone informed at all?
PlanetCrypto once suggested on another thread that they could deal with the asic side, if sidehack was willing to build the miners, did this die off? is someone around up to snuff for FPGA to ASIC design?
Speaking of connectors: I was trying to find the list of bands & performers endorsing Neutrik and I couldn't find it. Maybe they discontinued the endorsement program because nowadays if any well-known national or worldwide act is performing on stage they have their equipment plugged in through the Neutrik connectors.
Take a look at the Neutrik's version of Ethernet, USB and power plugs:
http://www.neutrik.us/en-us/ethercon/
http://www.neutrik.us/en-us/multimedia/
http://www.neutrik.us/en-us/powercon/
and compare them to the stuff available at Amazon or your local electronics retailer.
I'm not going to try to post the prices, because some readers could get a heart attack and some others could choke laughing. But think of Neutrik next time you'll be warming your glue gun to fix loose connectors.
Take a look at the Neutrik's version of Ethernet, USB and power plugs:
http://www.neutrik.us/en-us/ethercon/
http://www.neutrik.us/en-us/multimedia/
http://www.neutrik.us/en-us/powercon/
and compare them to the stuff available at Amazon or your local electronics retailer.
I'm not going to try to post the prices, because some readers could get a heart attack and some others could choke laughing. But think of Neutrik next time you'll be warming your glue gun to fix loose connectors.
Maybe a bit off the topic here, but having spent a lot of time in a recording studio, I am a big fan of Neutrik. Audio demands robust and accurate connections at every junction.
Also I was probably a bit grouchy because today is sandwich day but I didn't get the sandwich until about ten minutes ago.
I sent $10 in BTC to the Burger Fund so you won't have that problem tomorrow - lol
https://blockchain.info/tx/7f211e5e7c4f7977824e2007dd2a3ede88885594b4f8275ee62268795ea14bb7
Yes, it is posted in the Compac sales thread in the Group Buys
Speaking of connectors: I was trying to find the list of bands & performers endorsing Neutrik and I couldn't find it. Maybe they discontinued the endorsement program because nowadays if any well-known national or worldwide act is performing on stage they have their equipment plugged in through the Neutrik connectors.
Take a look at the Neutrik's version of Ethernet, USB and power plugs:
http://www.neutrik.us/en-us/ethercon/
http://www.neutrik.us/en-us/multimedia/
http://www.neutrik.us/en-us/powercon/
and compare them to the stuff available at Amazon or your local electronics retailer.
I'm not going to try to post the prices, because some readers could get a heart attack and some others could choke laughing. But think of Neutrik next time you'll be warming your glue gun to fix loose connectors.
For USB hubs (yes using the dreaded type-a for fanout) we finally changed over to Triplite's line of industrial hubs. God alone knows how many off-the-shelf ones - Brand name ones mind you - we and our customers have gone through at the operator stations... Search for them through Amazon. Not cheap but so far bullet-proof. Even accept up to 24v power in. Take a look at the Neutrik's version of Ethernet, USB and power plugs:
http://www.neutrik.us/en-us/ethercon/
http://www.neutrik.us/en-us/multimedia/
http://www.neutrik.us/en-us/powercon/
and compare them to the stuff available at Amazon or your local electronics retailer.
I'm not going to try to post the prices, because some readers could get a heart attack and some others could choke laughing. But think of Neutrik next time you'll be warming your glue gun to fix loose connectors.
Speaking of connectors: I was trying to find the list of bands & performers endorsing Neutrik and I couldn't find it. Maybe they discontinued the endorsement program because nowadays if any well-known national or worldwide act is performing on stage they have their equipment plugged in through the Neutrik connectors.
Take a look at the Neutrik's version of Ethernet, USB and power plugs:
http://www.neutrik.us/en-us/ethercon/
http://www.neutrik.us/en-us/multimedia/
http://www.neutrik.us/en-us/powercon/
and compare them to the stuff available at Amazon or your local electronics retailer.
I'm not going to try to post the prices, because some readers could get a heart attack and some others could choke laughing. But think of Neutrik next time you'll be warming your glue gun to fix loose connectors.
Take a look at the Neutrik's version of Ethernet, USB and power plugs:
http://www.neutrik.us/en-us/ethercon/
http://www.neutrik.us/en-us/multimedia/
http://www.neutrik.us/en-us/powercon/
and compare them to the stuff available at Amazon or your local electronics retailer.
I'm not going to try to post the prices, because some readers could get a heart attack and some others could choke laughing. But think of Neutrik next time you'll be warming your glue gun to fix loose connectors.
Also I was probably a bit grouchy because today is sandwich day but I didn't get the sandwich until about ten minutes ago.
I sent $10 in BTC to the Burger Fund so you won't have that problem tomorrow - lol
https://blockchain.info/tx/7f211e5e7c4f7977824e2007dd2a3ede88885594b4f8275ee62268795ea14bb7
I hope so as I send funds there.
Personally I was hoping for a 'yes' from someone before I send... or have ya before and it's right ? 
Also I was probably a bit grouchy because today is sandwich day but I didn't get the sandwich until about ten minutes ago.
I sent $10 in BTC to the Burger Fund so you won't have that problem tomorrow - lol
https://blockchain.info/tx/7f211e5e7c4f7977824e2007dd2a3ede88885594b4f8275ee62268795ea14bb7
I hope so as I send funds there.
Also I was probably a bit grouchy because today is sandwich day but I didn't get the sandwich until about ten minutes ago.
I sent $10 in BTC to the Burger Fund so you won't have that problem tomorrow - lol
https://blockchain.info/tx/7f211e5e7c4f7977824e2007dd2a3ede88885594b4f8275ee62268795ea14bb7
Also I was probably a bit grouchy because today is sandwich day but I didn't get the sandwich until about ten minutes ago.
I sent $10 in BTC to the Burger Fund so you won't have that problem tomorrow - lol
https://blockchain.info/tx/7f211e5e7c4f7977824e2007dd2a3ede88885594b4f8275ee62268795ea14bb7
I for one enjoy reading the discussion about the project. It definitely helps less qualified (in my case bordering on ignorant about much of it) people understand the technical aspects.
Having said that, Sidehack is 100% correct about the project. He has spent an enormous amount of time on it. I know that I have been involved with him for 4 months and work had been done prior to my involvement.
The project is to keep things inexpensive, reliable and SIMPLE. Some of that crosses over because in my experience "simple" is often the most reliable. I think Sidehack has tolerate my ignorance because we share a goal - to make a miner for the home miner - and the outcome of our conversations has been explained by Sidehack and I support it 100%
Having said that, Sidehack is 100% correct about the project. He has spent an enormous amount of time on it. I know that I have been involved with him for 4 months and work had been done prior to my involvement.
The project is to keep things inexpensive, reliable and SIMPLE. Some of that crosses over because in my experience "simple" is often the most reliable. I think Sidehack has tolerate my ignorance because we share a goal - to make a miner for the home miner - and the outcome of our conversations has been explained by Sidehack and I support it 100%
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