Topic: Confession - Zapo=aTriz. - page 3. (Read 13966 times)

That's not how the trust system should work and it's borderline fallacy. DT is not some sort of police force and even if it was you probably wouldn't want every cop in the town to respond to every crime.

The fact that e.g. I tagged some (or many) fake ICOs or PayPal scammers doesn't mean I'm obligated to tag them all. The fact that The Pharmacists tagged some (or many) account traders doesn't mean that he's obligated to tag them all. Everyone has their own, possibly subjective, criteria and decision process and that's what makes the trust system work. Otherwise we could just have theymos tag everyone, when he has time between recovering hacked accounts and developing the new forum software.

I had read that thread back when I was reading up on the controversies of the time. It doesn't really tell the whole story though. Whether this was an oversight on your part trying to move on from the Atriz brand at the time or not; but there is no accusation or proof on your part they did anything wrong. I don't even see any feedback from any of your accounts

I obviously don't know the details, but given the current situation (see below), it might have been a good idea to have aired the dirty laundry and had pinkman tagged. Assuming the reason you have for not paying them was NEG worthy. All I can find is the positive feedback you left pinkman that is still positive but has (delete) at the end of it.


Moving forward can you provide the information now so that anyone who has tagged Pinkman12345 can also go and tag the snakey account. We wouldn't want to leave any loose ends out there.

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I feel like we've all been using the second chance thing improperly, myself included. No one gave a second chance; the closest would be Loyce not exposing Zapo - but still keeping tabs on the user and account (this was fair IMO). What has happened is an Alt account was used to try and shed the glaring RED trust that had essentially nuked a previously trustworthy user. Zaptriz has been tagged, and that's good. Not that I feel they are 100% untrustworthy, but that a record of members and how they have interacted and behaved on this forum should follow them and be visible. This way we can tell if they have changed for better or worse.

When you bring up The Pharmacist if you check the Atriz trust profile you can see that while he was not personally burned the feedback went from green to neutral to reflect the changing times. There are actually quite a few people being given second chances if you consider marlbaroza's feedback for promoting scam ICO's. They are giving members the opportunity to repeal the harm they have caused and be made whole again. Like I said there is no second chance here; it's more of a long standing service provider falling short, and having to deal with that while moving forward. This brings clashing opinions between past and present.

For there to be a true second chance example there would need to have been a license or some permission granted to a select few to manage campaigns; this having been revoked, and then granted again. There is no such thing anyone no matter there trust score can manage a campaign. People will join any campaign regardless of who runs it, just look at the 2 started by a "newbie", of which one actually provided second chances to a couple red trust members.

I can understand why Zaptriz went this route they are trying to provide a service to clients outside of this forum, using the forum as a platform for this. Most of his clients I'm assuming would want the manager to be a neutral or nice shiny green color but that was likely never going to happen without going this route. Assuming they did accurately portray the situations to their customers and they were okay with it, not much to be said they can hire who they like. I do feel like it was shady doing this to the members who would have joined your campaigns as they should have been given the same information, being essentially contractors.


Zaptriz - Just keep doing you. Again just some advice take it or leave it. No more alts, just ride it out and try and earn back some of that 2017 reputation. Escrow and transparency are always advisable. Try not to leave any loose ends out there, it may burn someone else down the road.


EDIT for clarity - Zaptriz does not exist but I like the way it sounds, I'm sure most will get this but I'm sure some will not.

The rules are, but the DT aren't; apparently they have multiple parameters based on who they have pecuniary dealings with; I have been pointing this out for quite some time; but then again they jump with their racist biases and scream second chances when their scammy business partners are caught; for all the lesser mortals; it's just sick when they call them ISIS suicide bombers cause they are apparent spammers.




"shown some evidence of trustworthiness"
Has aTriz shown any in his case; it's one lie after another.
As for your conflict; it is primarily because people have obfuscated parameters; the ones who have a clear-cut conscience don't have conflicts on tagging scammers/liars.

You don't realize how many second chances I've given on account sellers.  I've removed quite a few feedbacks after a while if a person has shown some evidence of trustworthiness after engaging in account dealing.  Most requests I've had that resulted in feedback removal have come from PMs, so it's not like everyone is aware of this.

I also don't tag people just for having alt accounts, but for buying or selling accounts--because that leads to scams based on reputation or shitposting.  That point has been made millions of times already.

aTriz always did right by me, yet I would never discount the possibility that I'm being bamboozled by a smooth-talking con man.  I trust aTriz/Zapo just enough such that I'm just going to sit this one out, and it isn't like his accounts didn't get tagged anyway.  There's plenty of red trust on them as a warning for anyone who's considering doing business with them.  I appreciate your straightforward opinion on my inaction.  This particular situation has me more conflicted than I usually get.

No one really gets second chances around the forum? Ask every account that has been tagged by the DT who was begging for the second chances? Why special privileges for the accused here? @Pharmacist - You are actively tagging alt the alt-accounts and account sellers in the forum, why haven't you left your tag here when the case is clearly to be of owning multiple accounts, scamming and other stuff. This isn't a rational judgement. If you think he deserves a second chance, why not all those accounts who have been tagged by you don't?

To conclude -  Don't be a bunch of biased hypocrites, if you stand by a principle, support it regardless of the accounts involved. I have nothing against the OP but rules should be equal for everybody.

I suspect this has to do with who he is friends with and who he is associated with.

In other words, he stole money from people he believed to be scammers. Now where have I heard that before?

So many defending him as a "great" campaign manager..
"Great" campaign manager that will continue to run a campaign as normal knowing that it lies to it's participants and investors, forced because he has a whole 2 weeks invested in it..

Looks like he isn't even holding FULL escrow to protect all the participants..

Late on payments because he doesn't have the money on hand, the point of escrow.. So much coin he has been holding    So trusts
If he is holding coin, why didn't he respond about putting it into an escrow? Just ignored..

Lies to the lender zazarb in his loan application, deleted the OP.. Very untrustworthy, like lying to the bank..
Doesn't seem like zazarb wants to fill the loan now that loyce corrected his lie about..
And then..


People get ruined for less so why all this "second chances"?
Because he can manage a campaign? Any offshore tech support guy can manage a campaign..

Sympathy for him because he was "anti spam" and promoted merits, required merit for his campaign, has favor with the spam police..


Taking out a high interest no collateral loan out of desperation is a GREAT idea..


That's reasonable interest..

This guy wants atriz specifically to hold lending collateral for him
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.32953287
But he is inexperienced in lending remember..

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.32052237
Another loan with a reasonable interest term..

Fuck he groups them for me..

He is an experienced lender/lendee..


Or not?

Look at that low requested interest..

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/open-loan-with-atriz-2669643
10%

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/need-loan-of-04-for-trading-payback-15-months-max-2763447

Super low interest requested and filled


Paid only 3.375% interest on that one..

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/need-loan-of-025-for-trading-payback-3-weeks-max-3-day-re-payment-possible-2906815

.001 daily for 21 days is .021 interest on .25 = 8.4% interest..


Offers to pay 33% interest "I dusn no wha intrus is"
Must be a conspiracy..

It would be "earned accidentally" however I'm still not sure that term is appropriate for what happened in your case.


Anyhow:

This was done because he had been on LoyceV's radar; and became a concern when asking for a decent sized no collateral loan. Essentially a come clean or I'll expose you situation.


I can't say I'm familiar with this loan in particular. If you could point me to a thread where it is discussed and makes sense why you wouldn't repay I'd appreciate it. I'm wondering if Snakey/Pinkman12345 did something to cause you to need the loan, by scamming you or stealing from you. Then loaned you what you needed. If that is the case and is provable your stance makes sense.

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All in all, I'm for second chances.  It does appear you burned up quite a few of those all in a short period of time; they could be lumped into one bad stretch of poor decisions. I like to believe you would have come clean after building up the account but that would have been less tempting than say doing it 3 weeks ago, you would have more and more to lose every week that passed as the account built up.

The part that concerns me the most is that you had been renting out your Atriz account to someone while building up Zapo. Iirc this was ongoing while you began managing these campaigns; that to me is continuing on with poor decisions. You likely used your Atriz reputation to get those accounts under your belt, which is fine but do you see how the Atriz account still had some reputation, and that lending out that account could have resulted in a scam large or small. I also don't see the value in lending someone an account to test out the forum, considering that would not be their experience, due to ranking up with merit changing things.

I hate to tell anyone how to act (apart from my kids) but I would suggest take time to think about how your actions will be perceived by/or affect the community before acting. For the foreseeable future, escrow account funds. Yes you will take a hit on your earnings from the fee, but you also add a layer of trust to your dealings.

Good luck moving forward, try not to get caught up in shady shit.

Ok, misunderstood - thought you took a loan from pinkman12345, found out he is a scammer, and are not repaying.  He has 0.54BTC in defaulted
loans as of now.

Didn't understand the "earnt accidentally" bit...

Either way, would appreciate your assistance in providing any and all relevant info about him here: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/--5043688

All the money I made off the ICO that pinkman got "scammed" was around 4 eth, and I repaid him 5 eth before he backstabbed me. I don't see why I should donate the remaining balance as the money I earnt accidentally is already gone.

A thought:
If you have an outstanding "loan" to pinkman12345, a good place to start for karma-cleaning would be to repay what is owed by him to his victims or assist in debt recovery since you have worked closely with him in the past.

ill gotten gains never go far, but here you have a chance to make ill gotten gains not so ill again (atleast partially).

I am little bit late on this discussion . Since I am new on this forum, I just aware story about aTriz. Whatever did by aTriz account obviously wrong. You lied before, now no one will accept your true even me. Usually you can't expect second chance from community. Community is like a glass. If you broke once it can't be repair. You are the one who responsible damage your career. As well you self admitted that you are owner of aTriz account so your current account also will effect by your previous record.

Very interesting how LoyceV find out your previous account.

Eventually I want to say, there is no doubts Zapo has been doing great job by spam free signature campaign. But for me, I will not excuse for your previous record.

This is absolutely surprising, and somehow disappointing too. 
I was actually quite glad to have a manager like him who was punctual on payments, and very selective about the participants of the campaigns he is managing to avoid hiring spammers or shitposters, and then today, when I come online and open the campaign thread to check if the payments are sent out yet or not, I see his account in red, and upon following the reference I end up in this thread where I find out he is the alt of a person who was involved (intentionally or unintentionally, since I was not around in that period and have no much knowledge about the case/cases) in shady activities that cost people their money and him his reputation.

Though I'm no one to make any judgement since the case he was involved in is still unclear to me, but I really like the way he has been working recently. If he was a genuine scammer, he would definitely have stolen the escrow funds for these campaigns and disappear without anyone having any access to him. I think he should be given a chance to prove himself.

My assumption was that Zapo got those campaigns because of the connections he has as aTriz. That means the team didn't consider him to be a Newbie from the start.

I think just creating this topic by Zapo himself is a brave step to confront his critics, either good or bad. He laid out his true self and it's up to you on how you perceive him as a user here. And with that being said, in my opinion there's no need to lock up this account in his pocket. Users can always check the trust of that person and gauge for himself if he wants to deal with this person or not.

So, what do you plan on doing to your old account now that your identity is revealed as aTriz? Do you still intend on using it and regain the reputation wasted back then? or you'll just lock it up on your pocket?

How else was I able to sign 2014-2013 private keys in 2017?

I'm not lying. I would rebuttal the other arguments but they are too personal. If you want a definite answer for these I'd suggest PMing me.

Edit - The only "loan" on the forum here is to snakey. And I'm not paying him the 10 eth or so, after I found out he was pinkman123345. So he backstabbed me and he wants me to pay him a couple grand? Bullshit.

That makes about as little sense as all the other excuses we've heard from the 2015-2018 aTriz (for lack of a better definition) so there is good chance that this is indeed the same person.

Here is what you could do: stop lying, get a job IRL, repay the loans or whatever you owe to whomever, stop fucking around with alts, and stay away from shady deals, or any financial responsibility for that matter (use an escrow if you must).

Here is what you will do: same as usual.