Topic: Copycat Signatures: Chipmixer and Wasabi - page 4. (Read 1829 times)

Quote from: Lauda on February 29, 2020, 11:52:45 AM

While i agree there's ethical problem, IMO it's problem between ChipMixer and the user who wear copycat signature, all we need to do is let ChipMixer representative know about this problem.

Wasabi is not a profitable service

While i doubt it's profitable, there's 0.003% coordinator fee.

According to Chainalysis, Wasabi mixed $250,000,000 in 2019*. That means $750,000 has been paid in coordinator fees, which seems pretty profitably to me Grin

.

$250 million times 0.003% is $7500. OTOH the 0.003% fee is per anonymity set and Wasabi uses 50+ sets by default, so it's a 0.15% minimum total fee, usually higher. $400-500k would be a more reasonable estimate, but that's just the revenue. There are costs/expenses for sure.

At any rate, I'd say nopara73 claiming that he makes money is good enough to assume there is profit, and I'm sure he could pay for a signature if he wanted to, and I'm quite sure he's not paying for Gyrsur's copypasta signature.

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Quote from: TheNewAnon135246 on March 01, 2020, 11:11:51 AM

Quote from: Lauda on February 29, 2020, 11:52:45 AM

While i agree there's ethical problem, IMO it's problem between ChipMixer and the user who wear copycat signature, all we need to do is let ChipMixer representative know about this problem.

Wasabi is not a profitable service

While i doubt it's profitable, there's 0.003% coordinator fee.

According to Chainalysis, Wasabi mixed $250,000,000 in 2019*. That means $750,000 has been paid in coordinator fees, which seems pretty profitably to me Grin

.
*source: https://bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/chainalysis-most-mixed-bitcoin-not-used-for-illicit-purposes

While I am quite surprised (I have underestimated Wasabi), I am not able to follow your math. 0.003% is per anonymity set ($7500 assuming all went through a set of 1). On average, the set I would say is in the 50-75 on average.

Quote from: TheNewAnon135246 on March 01, 2020, 11:11:51 AM

Regarding the OP, I don't really see the issue as long as it is an individual using the signature (in a non-campaign way). It would've been honorable if the user PMed the signature designer first, but you can't prevent people from using the BB code. Campaigns could add a disclaimer in the OP but there would still be no way to enforce it.

Translation: Some theft is okay, some other theft is not okay.

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Quote from: Lauda on February 29, 2020, 11:52:45 AM

While i agree there's ethical problem, IMO it's problem between ChipMixer and the user who wear copycat signature, all we need to do is let ChipMixer representative know about this problem.

Wasabi is not a profitable service

While i doubt it's profitable, there's 0.003% coordinator fee.

According to Chainalysis, Wasabi mixed $250,000,000 in 2019*. That means $750,000 has been paid in coordinator fees, which seems pretty profitably to me Grin

.

Regarding the OP, I don't really see the issue as long as it is an individual using the signature (in a non-campaign way). It would've been honorable if the user PMed the signature designer first, but you can't prevent people from using the BB code. Campaigns could add a disclaimer in the OP but there would still be no way to enforce it.

*source: https://bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/chainalysis-most-mixed-bitcoin-not-used-for-illicit-purposes

EDIT: Lips sealed

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Quote from: suchmoon on March 01, 2020, 10:23:18 AM

Quote from: Lauda on March 01, 2020, 05:59:06 AM

Quote from: suchmoon on March 01, 2020, 10:23:18 AM

What do you think?

If it's plagiarism, it's up to the Mods to deal with. I don't even know if Global Mods can do that, or only Admins.

No. That is post plagiarism. Signature design plagiarism is theft that has been dealt with the trust system.

Forum rules apply to signatures as well. We shouldn't use the trust system for either kind of plagiarism unless the staff explicitly refuse to take action and there is an actual risk involved, e.g. the user is promoting a scam.

We have always acted using the trust system, and there is no reason to stop doing so. Forum rules if applicable are an added bonus.

Quote from: Lauda on February 29, 2020, 11:52:45 AM

Wasabi is not a profitable service

While i doubt it's profitable, there's 0.003% coordinator fee.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/emq3hv/ama_im_nopara73_i_wrote_65_of_the_code_of_wasabi/
Loading...

Right, not profitable for any campaign then.

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Quote from: Lauda on March 01, 2020, 05:59:06 AM

What do you think?

If it's plagiarism, it's up to the Mods to deal with. I don't even know if Global Mods can do that, or only Admins.

No. That is post plagiarism. Signature design plagiarism is theft that has been dealt with the trust system.

Forum rules apply to signatures as well. We shouldn't use the trust system for either kind of plagiarism unless the staff explicitly refuse to take action and there is an actual risk involved, e.g. the user is promoting a scam.

Quote from: Lauda on February 29, 2020, 11:52:45 AM

Wasabi is not a profitable service

While i doubt it's profitable, there's 0.003% coordinator fee.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Monero/comments/emq3hv/ama_im_nopara73_i_wrote_65_of_the_code_of_wasabi/

Loading...

Edited 2020-11-30 to fix a broken image

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While i agree there's ethical problem, IMO it's problem between ChipMixer and the user who wear copycat signature, all we need to do is let ChipMixer representative know about this problem.

No. It our problem.

Quote from: Lauda on February 29, 2020, 11:52:45 AM

Wasabi is not a profitable service

While i doubt it's profitable, there's 0.003% coordinator fee.

That is irrelevant.

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It goes beyond copyright, it goes to the heart of what is also morally correct or not.

To use/steal/copy is one thing but to not even accept that you did something wrong is another thing - that is why the user wearing the copycat signature should explain why he did it and what the story is behind it.

Quote from: dkbit98 on February 29, 2020, 07:21:48 PM

It is funny to see people are doing stuff like this.
My question is are any of this specific signatures copyright protected or not?

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Quote from: examplens on February 29, 2020, 12:11:35 PM

But it is obviously a clickbait. Using someone's else design to promote similarly service is conscious deception. The low marketing budget is not enough justification.

Not entirely through, everyone could have a similar design compared to what you have as really I don't think people can create an entirely unique design. The only problem here with the "ChipMixer" being edited out and replacing it to "Wasabi Wallet" they haven't replaced the logo of ChipMixer in the signature which is protected by their trademark. As far as Wasabi Wallet being promoted, I haven't seen any real activity from them in the forum so this might just be an individual trying to promote a competitor from ChipMixer and used their signature to be used in promoting Wasabi Wallet.

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What do you think?

If it's plagiarism, it's up to the Mods to deal with. I don't even know if Global Mods can do that, or only Admins.

No. That is post plagiarism. Signature design plagiarism is theft that has been dealt with the trust system.

As for the parody:

Quote from: Google Dictionary

an imitation of the style of a particular writer, artist, or genre with deliberate exaggeration for comic effect.

I guess I just don't see the comical value for Vadi2323's signature on a Bitcoin forum where many users value their privacy.

Correct. This is why I think my previous opinion is wrong. That particular case is simple, but some other cases might be very difficult: e.g. something that may be funny to some but not to others. Easier if the consensus was just: Do not do it.

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