Could Bitcoin Smash Socialism in Venezuela? - page 4.

Hispo

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Quote from: Sithara007 on April 25, 2021, 10:58:23 PM

Quote from: Hispo on April 25, 2021, 07:28:58 PM

Venezuelan living in Venezuela.

We have corruption, crime and inflation and Bitcoin and other crypto-assets help our situation.
Politicians and criminals here are always looking for a way to steal whatever we have left, one needs to be careful and having some crypto allow us to have some money in a discreet way.

It is not even completely safe to safe in USD here, because that's what common and in uniform criminals seek the most, a friend of my family got her appartment raided by some crooks because they knew she had some USD in cash.

And of course, the small savings are better in crypto than local currency which goes down between one and two percent everyday in comparison to the USD.

If the government fully legalize the usage of USD, then there will be no need to store all the cash at home, and robberies such as the one mentioned above could be avoided. This is one of the disadvantages with fiat cash. It is very difficult to store the money anonymously, which makes it vulnerable to seizures and robberies. But for smaller transactions, Bitcoin is not very suitable. So in case you want to purchase a can of coke, or a packet of sunflower oil, I don't expect you to pay with BTC. You need USD in such occasions.

Even though the government already is legalizing USD bank accounts, people won't deposit their cash, because most of us do not trust banks after they restricted our daily cash withdrawvals of local currency since around 2016. Nowadays, in order for me to get cash i need to stand in a line for two hours at 7 am and they only give me 90 cents in local currency.

Also, when I need to buy some food I liquidate some Altcoin which is cheap to move for local currency in a exchange and spend the whole thing as soon as possible. We get Bs-USD exchange rates updates twice a day and they mostly go against our local currency.

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Quote from: Hispo on April 25, 2021, 07:28:58 PM

Venezuelan living in Venezuela.

We have corruption, crime and inflation and Bitcoin and other crypto-assets help our situation.
Politicians and criminals here are always looking for a way to steal whatever we have left, one needs to be careful and having some crypto allow us to have some money in a discreet way.

It is not even completely safe to safe in USD here, because that's what common and in uniform criminals seek the most, a friend of my family got her appartment raided by some crooks because they knew she had some USD in cash.

And of course, the small savings are better in crypto than local currency which goes down between one and two percent everyday in comparison to the USD.

If the government fully legalize the usage of USD, then there will be no need to store all the cash at home, and robberies such as the one mentioned above could be avoided. This is one of the disadvantages with fiat cash. It is very difficult to store the money anonymously, which makes it vulnerable to seizures and robberies. But for smaller transactions, Bitcoin is not very suitable. So in case you want to purchase a can of coke, or a packet of sunflower oil, I don't expect you to pay with BTC. You need USD in such occasions.

Hispo

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Quote from: cabron on April 25, 2021, 07:44:02 PM

Quote from: noorammak on April 22, 2021, 11:30:26 AM

Governments must have the power to make their own currency and run their own economies on their own terms. Bitcoin, the cryptocurrency, naturally went along and served the people. People want to use cryptocurrencies because they do not believe in the leadership of the government. That is the weakness in the management mechanism of Venezuela.
Bitcoin is really undermining this country because the money flows away from the banks. The government will not receive any tax or service fees.

Government should have the power and Marudo I believe had tried that $Petro but there is just political instability in the country besides its a threat to USD. The country isn't that ready, its card is just the petro production and it couldn't sustain economically for the country.

Venezuela had a big community for Dash users and Bitcoin Cash, not just Bitcoin actually.

The Petro was a centralized closed-source attempt of a currency with little to no organic demand, that is why government is creating artificial demand for it by asking for Petros to issue Passports and other state services. They even gave away half petro to a lot of people some time ago in their centralized wallet. I will admit, that little airdrop helped some people to buy food and there is a small community here which speculates and trade Petro.

Also, you are right about those altcoins. Dash is specially popular here in Veenzuela and it is commonly promoted by Dash Core, Bitcoin Cash is not as popular.
I have had been an user of Dash as medium of exchange.

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Quote from: noorammak on April 22, 2021, 11:30:26 AM

Governments must have the power to make their own currency and run their own economies on their own terms. Bitcoin, the cryptocurrency, naturally went along and served the people. People want to use cryptocurrencies because they do not believe in the leadership of the government. That is the weakness in the management mechanism of Venezuela.
Bitcoin is really undermining this country because the money flows away from the banks. The government will not receive any tax or service fees.

Government should have the power and Marudo I believe had tried that $Petro but there is just political instability in the country besides its a threat to USD. The country isn't that ready, its card is just the petro production and it couldn't sustain economically for the country.

Venezuela had a big community for Dash users and Bitcoin Cash, not just Bitcoin actually.

Hispo

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Quote from: noorammak on April 22, 2021, 11:30:26 AM

Bitcoin is really undermining this country because the money flows away from the banks. The government will not receive any tax or service fees.

This is spot on.
But they are getting butt-hurt by the fact they don't have the control over this, that's why they are trying to control the miners and seizing mining equipment.

They seize every time the have the chance here.

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Quote from: Mauser on April 25, 2021, 02:36:49 AM

I think the key problem in Venezuela is corruption. If we had a way to detect all the bad politicians and put them in prison than that would be the best action. I am not sure if bitcoins can help here. Venezuela has a lot of resources they can export,so there shouldn't be any economic hardship to be honest.It is just that the money is getting misused and not used for the country. Large infrastructure projects could help as well.

Venezuelan living in Venezuela.

We have corruption, crime and inflation and Bitcoin and other crypto-assets help our situation.
Politicians and criminals here are always looking for a way to steal whatever we have left, one needs to be careful and having some crypto allow us to have some money in a discreet way.

It is not even completely safe to safe in USD here, because that's what common and in uniform criminals seek the most, a friend of my family got her appartment raided by some crooks because they knew she had some USD in cash.

And of course, the small savings are better in crypto than local currency which goes down between one and two percent everyday in comparison to the USD.

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I think the key problem in Venezuela is corruption. If we had a way to detect all the bad politicians and put them in prison than that would be the best action. I am not sure if bitcoins can help here. Venezuela has a lot of resources they can export,so there shouldn't be any economic hardship to be honest.It is just that the money is getting misused and not used for the country. Large infrastructure projects could help as well.

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Quote from: noorammak on April 22, 2021, 11:30:26 AM

Governments must have the power to make their own currency and run their own economies on their own terms. Bitcoin, the cryptocurrency, naturally went along and served the people. People want to use cryptocurrencies because they do not believe in the leadership of the government. That is the weakness in the management mechanism of Venezuela.
Bitcoin is really undermining this country because the money flows away from the banks. The government will not receive any tax or service fees.

LOL.. this is really funny. So you are claiming that cryptocurrency is the root cause of the economic meltdown ongoing in Venezuela? As far as I know, there is hardly any capital outflow from Venezuela. The reason is that, to start with you need to have at least some capital. And Venezuela doesn't have any. Whatever BTC and other cryptocurrency Venezuelan nationals own comes from freelancing and remittances. If you believe that the government should crack down on these routes and pocket 99% of the money for themselves, then I have to disagree.

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Quote from: Spaffin on April 22, 2021, 06:41:39 AM

Quote from: GeorgeJohn on April 22, 2021, 05:00:02 AM

Quote from: iv4n on February 22, 2021, 05:59:46 AM

I think Bitcoin can't do much alone, but Bitcoin with alts (cryptocurrencies) can do a lot!
It's my opinion, and you can see that in some of my comments! Venezuela is just one of the "bad" examples of what this traditional economy is doing for centuries... It's too corrupted, and believe it or not powerful countries and their big banks are pretty much responsible for all that shit around that last for too long..
Crypto can be very transparent, easy to use... crypto is a tool that can be used for many good things! Of course, if it's used in the right way! People can have a vote that will count, and politicians together with banks will not be able to interfere and change everything in their favor! They will not be able to change the chain whenever they like it!

From the beginning of cryptocurrencies bitcoin started alone before adoption or introduction of other cryptocurrencies which is alternative coins, so it happened that without bitcoin the images of alternative coin will not come out as expected, so in summary bitcoin can exist without the support of alt coins but mean while alt coins can't exist without the support of bitcoin.

Of course, given that Bitcoin affects the entire cryptocurrency market, no altcoin can exist in isolation. But nevertheless, given the versatility of the cryptocurrency industry and the corresponding demand in the society, Bitcoin will not be able to satisfy all the demand on its own. Therefore, many altcoins complement bitcoin very effectively.

Yeah, it's obvious that the primary functions of alternative coins is complement to Bitcoin, but that shouldn't be use to equates Bitcoin to alternative coins or compared the influence of Bitcoin to altcoins, mean while father which is Bitcoin still remain as father, all alternative coins are supporters in cryptocurrency because during the introduction of Bitcoin the aims and objectives of the founder of Bitcoin which is satoshi Nakamoto is to bring the images of Bitcoin not altcoins, so therefore Bitcoin can equally exist without the support of all the numerous alternative coins.

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Governments must have the power to make their own currency and run their own economies on their own terms. Bitcoin, the cryptocurrency, naturally went along and served the people. People want to use cryptocurrencies because they do not believe in the leadership of the government. That is the weakness in the management mechanism of Venezuela.
Bitcoin is really undermining this country because the money flows away from the banks. The government will not receive any tax or service fees.

Spaffin

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Quote from: GeorgeJohn on April 22, 2021, 05:00:02 AM

Quote from: iv4n on February 22, 2021, 05:59:46 AM

I think Bitcoin can't do much alone, but Bitcoin with alts (cryptocurrencies) can do a lot!
It's my opinion, and you can see that in some of my comments! Venezuela is just one of the "bad" examples of what this traditional economy is doing for centuries... It's too corrupted, and believe it or not powerful countries and their big banks are pretty much responsible for all that shit around that last for too long..
Crypto can be very transparent, easy to use... crypto is a tool that can be used for many good things! Of course, if it's used in the right way! People can have a vote that will count, and politicians together with banks will not be able to interfere and change everything in their favor! They will not be able to change the chain whenever they like it!

From the beginning of cryptocurrencies bitcoin started alone before adoption or introduction of other cryptocurrencies which is alternative coins, so it happened that without bitcoin the images of alternative coin will not come out as expected, so in summary bitcoin can exist without the support of alt coins but mean while alt coins can't exist without the support of bitcoin.

Of course, given that Bitcoin affects the entire cryptocurrency market, no altcoin can exist in isolation. But nevertheless, given the versatility of the cryptocurrency industry and the corresponding demand in the society, Bitcoin will not be able to satisfy all the demand on its own. Therefore, many altcoins complement bitcoin very effectively.

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Quote from: iv4n on February 22, 2021, 05:59:46 AM

Quote from: Hydrogen on February 16, 2021, 07:16:41 PM

...What appears to be good information on how cryptocurrencies can help the poor and provide economic opportunities and options in nations under siege as Venezuela is atm.

I think Bitcoin can't do much alone, but Bitcoin with alts (cryptocurrencies) can do a lot!
It's my opinion, and you can see that in some of my comments! Venezuela is just one of the "bad" examples of what this traditional economy is doing for centuries... It's too corrupted, and believe it or not powerful countries and their big banks are pretty much responsible for all that shit around that last for too long..
Crypto can be very transparent, easy to use... crypto is a tool that can be used for many good things! Of course, if it's used in the right way! People can have a vote that will count, and politicians together with banks will not be able to interfere and change everything in their favor! They will not be able to change the chain whenever they like it!

From the beginning of cryptocurrencies bitcoin started alone before adoption or introduction of other cryptocurrencies which is alternative coins, so it happened that without bitcoin the images of alternative coin will not come out as expected, so in summary bitcoin can exist without the support of alt coins but mean while alt coins can't exist without the support of bitcoin.

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Quote from: Piesel on April 21, 2021, 11:30:52 PM

They need a proper and inspiring leader, not just a proper organization of the economy. On the other hand, they have to balance the country's income instead of focusing only on oil. Because of this fact, the country was vulnerable and they cant withstand the crisis when oil price droped sharply

IMO, they need both. Hugo Chavez was so successful because his budget was boosted by high crude oil prices. It allowed him to start generous welfare schemes and large infrastructural projects. And when Maduro became the president, the crude oil prices dropped and he could not continue with these same schemes. I really doubt whether Chavez would have been successful, had the oil prices crashed during his term.

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Quote from: Argoo on April 21, 2021, 12:28:15 AM

Quote from: bryant.coleman on April 04, 2021, 08:51:04 AM

Quote from: Kong Hey Pakboy on April 03, 2021, 09:33:50 PM

But their investment wasn't enough in the end as you have already said. Another problem as you have also mentioned is that they are so reliant on oil that they didn't try to invest in other products. And the blunder of choosing Maduro as the successor added to that problem.

Do you really believe that someone other than Maduro could have resolved this issue? Venezuela is like a single-commodity economy, which is over-reliant on petroleum. The majority of the population is left-leaning similar to the other Latin American nations and they want the governments to make huge welfare spending. If the right-wing parties were in power, then I don't know whether the situation could have been any good. They would have privatized the oil fields, which would cause losses to the economy once the crude oil prices increase.

Venezuela's problem is not socialism. It is unlikely that this authoritarian country can now be attributed to the socialist form of government. As many here correctly point out, Venezuela needs a proper organization of economic management. Global reforms are needed to eliminate the policy of simply eating up what is earned from oil production.
Due to the forced transition of states to renewable energy sources, oil will lose demand and fall in price. Therefore, the economy of this state needs to be reoriented from a simple distribution of produced oil to something that will bring real profit in the long term.

They need a proper and inspiring leader, not just a proper organization of the economy. On the other hand, they have to balance the country's income instead of focusing only on oil. Because of this fact, the country was vulnerable and they cant withstand the crisis when oil price droped sharply

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Quote from: bryant.coleman on April 04, 2021, 08:51:04 AM

Quote from: Kong Hey Pakboy on April 03, 2021, 09:33:50 PM

But their investment wasn't enough in the end as you have already said. Another problem as you have also mentioned is that they are so reliant on oil that they didn't try to invest in other products. And the blunder of choosing Maduro as the successor added to that problem.

Do you really believe that someone other than Maduro could have resolved this issue? Venezuela is like a single-commodity economy, which is over-reliant on petroleum. The majority of the population is left-leaning similar to the other Latin American nations and they want the governments to make huge welfare spending. If the right-wing parties were in power, then I don't know whether the situation could have been any good. They would have privatized the oil fields, which would cause losses to the economy once the crude oil prices increase.

Venezuela's problem is not socialism. It is unlikely that this authoritarian country can now be attributed to the socialist form of government. As many here correctly point out, Venezuela needs a proper organization of economic management. Global reforms are needed to eliminate the policy of simply eating up what is earned from oil production.
Due to the forced transition of states to renewable energy sources, oil will lose demand and fall in price. Therefore, the economy of this state needs to be reoriented from a simple distribution of produced oil to something that will bring real profit in the long term.

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Quote from: Kong Hey Pakboy on April 03, 2021, 09:33:50 PM

But their investment wasn't enough in the end as you have already said. Another problem as you have also mentioned is that they are so reliant on oil that they didn't try to invest in other products. And the blunder of choosing Maduro as the successor added to that problem.

Do you really believe that someone other than Maduro could have resolved this issue? Venezuela is like a single-commodity economy, which is over-reliant on petroleum. The majority of the population is left-leaning similar to the other Latin American nations and they want the governments to make huge welfare spending. If the right-wing parties were in power, then I don't know whether the situation could have been any good. They would have privatized the oil fields, which would cause losses to the economy once the crude oil prices increase.

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Well, Venezuela have been through a lot of struggles before they've got what they have now. Based on the article that I've read, after their president died on 2013, the problem in their country such as hyperinflation that made them suffer for the worst resulting to their currency to became worthless until they've decided to partner their currency to Bitcoin.

Check this ARTICLE.

This year, Bitcoin so far are just making bull runs, countries are starting to put their trust on Bitcoin, even big companies like Tesla and Microstrategy, etc... So I guess we should expect something more on Bitcoin this year.

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Quote from: Sithara007 on April 02, 2021, 02:20:54 AM

Quote from: Kong Hey Pakboy on April 02, 2021, 01:45:21 AM

The problem with the socialism in Venezuela is that they don't really focused on the well-being of the community but the well-being of the individuals which is evident because a lot of people during their high times were prosperous but they didn't invest in social aspect like health, education and other institutions that will help them when the down times happen and then the down times happened and the economy crashed, I don't think that bitcoin is enough to smash socialism because of how large the scale that bitcoin has to fill in.

It will be wrong to say that the government didn't made any investment in Medicare, education and infrastructure. Because I remember when Hugo Chavez was the president, he had a deal with Cuba to bring in Cuban doctors to Venezuela. They provided free and quality medical care to the Venezuelan citizens. Also, he undertook a lot of development and relief work in the slum areas, and reduced the poverty by a great amount.

But the government made a serious miscalculation. They thought that the high oil prices are going to last forever, so never bothered to set up a rainy day fund. And when the oil prices crashed, the treasury got empty in very quick time.

But their investment wasn't enough in the end as you have already said. Another problem as you have also mentioned is that they are so reliant on oil that they didn't try to invest in other products. And the blunder of choosing Maduro as the successor added to that problem.

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Quote from: uneng on April 02, 2021, 09:29:49 PM

Quote from: aesma on April 02, 2021, 05:44:30 AM

Chavez distributed the oil money better and you can't fault him for that. Where he got it wrong is that part of the money should have been used for a long term plan that didn't rely so much on oil money. Education is a start and a good thing, but it will only give results after decades. Developing tourism might have been a good idea.

And instead of nationalizing outright foreign companies' assets, renegotiate the deals, force them to invest more in infrastructure for example.

You are contradicting yourself. If Chavez distributed oil money best as possible, long term investments would have been done, but in fact they weren't, as you said.
If he can't be faulted for that, who should be then?

By distributing I meant just that. The money went in the pocket of the people, directly or almost directly (public services, subsidies for food, etc.). It's better than all the money going in the pockets of rich people or foreigners.

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Quote from: Lorence.xD on April 02, 2021, 10:23:33 PM

Quote from: uneng on April 02, 2021, 09:29:49 PM

You are contradicting yourself. If Chavez distributed oil money best as possible, long term investments would have been done, but in fact they weren't, as you said.
If he can't be faulted for that, who should be then?

Not entirely his fault because it isn't within his control that the prices of oil dramatically reduced, yes it is his fault that the way he distributed the money towards the country is real bad but there are some that are not within his control, not to mention that his successor Maduro is incompetent. I don't think that bitcoin alone is enough to do a dent in the problem in Venezuela because if the government is so bad then the problem persists.

No, Chavez did not distribute the oil money well. What he did was to squander it on populist measures. Those who have managed the oil money well were the Norwegian politicians, who knew how to create the largest sovereign wealth fund in the world and from the rents from which their citizens benefit. They were socialists, or social democrats to be exact, but if we point out they were capitalists in terms of wealth creation and management and socialists in terms of distribution.

Topic: Could Bitcoin Smash Socialism in Venezuela? - page 4. (Read 1245 times)