Topic: Could Bitcoin Smash Socialism in Venezuela? - page 5. (Read 1265 times)

If there's no proper control and the government is not doing there job then expect that the country will

suffer more, bitcoin is just an instrument it can't change anything, if being serve the actual use in the

right direction it can help but not the actual solutions, the government should held full responsibilities.

Chavez distributed most of the money in improving the healthcare facilities and education system. It had a big impact as well. But obviously he was more concerned with the short term goals and hardly cared for any long term projects. The poor (mostly living in urban slums) were his core support group and most of the money was spent in providing free food and services to them. This model wasn't sustainable once the crude oil prices went down.

This was never the case, Chávez only distributed the money only to his most loyal politicians, they could be counted because they do not even reach 100, which are the same people who now have a bad country, but since they have all betrayed and some have killed each other, there are so few left with so much wealth that they don't even reach 50.

If they had distributed the wealth equitably in Venezuela, Venezuela would be 20 times more prosperous and advanced than Dubai, there was never investment, the national electricity system at any moment collapses and will leave Venezuela completely off for up to 1 month, the countries that have the technology and the infrastructure needed to fix the system is the US and Germany, not the Russian and Chinese systems, but the highlight for now is that many suffer to get food and die from the pandemic much easier, albeit unusually and miraculously many Venezuelans manage to fight covid-19 through home remedies and medicinal plants, much more effective than vaccines, sometimes the immune system itself is stronger for some to resist, it is clear that Bitcoin would be the strongest option to get the country out of the crisis, the government knows it, that's why it also extracts bitcoins, but who should have bitcoin to improve the rhythm of life is the same people, So Bitcoin is the solution, at least I see it that way.

Not entirely his fault because it isn't within his control that the prices of oil dramatically reduced, yes it is his fault that the way he distributed the money towards the country is real bad but there are some that are not within his control, not to mention that his successor Maduro is incompetent. I don't think that bitcoin alone is enough to do a dent in the problem in Venezuela because if the government is so bad then the problem persists.

You are contradicting yourself. If Chavez distributed oil money best as possible, long term investments would have been done, but in fact they weren't, as you said.
If he can't be faulted for that, who should be then?

A Cryptocurrency Network is more like an Autonomous Nation with users/participants that share in its good Ideals/principles.
Users are meant to understand, and accept its ideals and be bounded them. Anyone can build or own company on a true Cryptocurrency Network, whether you are fan of socialism, capitalism etc. What should keep everyone working together in harmony are the ideals. You can build whatever you want ontop of a Crypto Network as long as they do not violate the community ideals/principles, if not, you should exist as foreign body and not have power to influence the network.

They have a large number of islands in the Caribbean and a lengthy coastline. I am surprised that tourism is not very developed in Venezuela. One factor may be the lack of interest from the private sector. If the tourism industry is to be developed, then you need the private players and their investment. Now who is going to invest in Venezuela, when they have forcibly nationalized most of the assets (ranches, petroleum, factories.etc)?

Oh really?
So you mean crypto is also a dictatorship because nobody can change anything no matter the will of the users?


Scandinavia is not a country, Scandinavia is a region.
And if you think that any country in that region is socialist, then you're wrong, all of them are capitalist countries.
But don't trust me, trust the Danish prime minister:
https://www.thelocal.dk/20151101/danish-pm-in-us-denmark-is-not-socialist/
All European countries are capitalist, from Iceland to Norway to Switzerland to Monaco.


Oh but it does!
There are the ones that have coins, and the ones that don't have!
Was Satoshi ever taxed and his coins sent to people who didn't own one mbit?


This brings us to the question of why are socialist countries only run by dictators? Probably because unless forced and tortured nobody would want to live there? You should learn about Israel and socialism, how when people have a choice they throw socialism in the garbage bin

Chavez distributed the oil money better and you can't fault him for that. Where he got it wrong is that part of the money should have been used for a long term plan that didn't rely so much on oil money. Education is a start and a good thing, but it will only give results after decades. Developing tourism might have been a good idea.

And instead of nationalizing outright foreign companies' assets, renegotiate the deals, force them to invest more in infrastructure for example.

It will be wrong to say that the government didn't made any investment in Medicare, education and infrastructure. Because I remember when Hugo Chavez was the president, he had a deal with Cuba to bring in Cuban doctors to Venezuela. They provided free and quality medical care to the Venezuelan citizens. Also, he undertook a lot of development and relief work in the slum areas, and reduced the poverty by a great amount.

But the government made a serious miscalculation. They thought that the high oil prices are going to last forever, so never bothered to set up a rainy day fund. And when the oil prices crashed, the treasury got empty in very quick time.

The problem with the socialism in Venezuela is that they don't really focused on the well-being of the community but the well-being of the individuals which is evident because a lot of people during their high times were prosperous but they didn't invest in social aspect like health, education and other institutions that will help them when the down times happen and then the down times happened and the economy crashed, I don't think that bitcoin is enough to smash socialism because of how large the scale that bitcoin has to fill in.

Revolting against a dictatorship is easier said than done as can be seen in Myanmar. That's why people living in democracies should be careful what they vote for, once you let a wannabee dictator in, you might never have the chance to get him out.

Well, crypto IS socialist in the sense that it doesn't give the rich people power to change bitcoins situation, in capitalist nations like USA and UK we see how rich people get away with whatever they want because they are rich, hell banks who gave mortgages to people got bailed out when people failed to pay their mortgages but the people who couldn't pay weren't bailed out, why? Because someone with a home is not important to capitalism, but rich people are important.

Crypto doesn't separate, poor or rich everyone is same on blockchain level. And yes there were obviously failed socialist states there is no denying that, but I do want to ask, provide me with ONE nation that was managed by socialism that didn't have dictatorship and failed. You will have hard time because all those dictators you see on "socialist" nations do name their country socialist since quite frankly they do screw every citizen equally to be honest.

I have named scandanavia as great social democracy example, can you name me one nation that is capitalist and as good as that? I doubt so.

Money itself doesn't mean much, even if it's a cryptocurrency. The social order is not changed by currency, but by people. If people want, they will take down any power over themselves. President Maduro even began to pay pensions in bitcoins. However, this does not improve the economic situation in the country, since, first of all, it is necessary to properly organize the management of the country's economy.

To give you an idea, here is a receipt I paid in February from my mom's apartment:



In Bitcoin is:




It is very cheap, for commercial electricity, it has been about 10 times more expensive, that is, it can reach:



and yes, if they have access to those Hardware, in fact, the mining activity in Venezuela is a lot, and when they started everything related to the petro, the government started through SUNACRIP (National Superintendence of Crypto Assets and Related Activities), their website: https://sunacrip.gob.ve/, a large registry of all the miners in Venezuela, where they were told that they could register together with their mining machines so that they would have more opportunity to mine the Petro, those who did, many of them they arrived at their residences and took away their machines.

and yes, if they have access to those Hardware, in fact, the mining activity in Venezuela is a lot, and when they started everything related to the petro, the government started through SUNACRIP (National Superintendence of Crypto Assets and Related Activities), their website: https://sunacrip.gob.ve/, a large registry of all the miners in Venezuela, where they were told that they could register together with their mining machines so that they would have more opportunity to mine the Petro, those who did, many of them they arrived at their residences and took away their machines.

Now, if we take into account that I do not live in the Capital or Central Zone of country but in the interior of the country, as is my case, the electrical failures are 6h, 12h, 15h at day, and on several occasions up to 1 and 2 days without electricity service for The great failures that exist in the national electricity system, of course, that for the main representatives of socialism who are the government not presents electricity fail.

So if you have mining machines you must have power plants, or a powerful battery bank, and if you do not register in SUNACRIP and they realize that you have mining machines (Very easy, through electricity consumption) you can go to the jail. Some to evade this record, connect directly to the power lines on the poles with various connections so that the consumption is not reflected in the electricity meter, of course, it is a total risk.

Actually Iran tried with Bitcoin mining, as a way to get around the embargoes and sanctions that were imposed by the United States. Venezuela can also do the same, as it will be impossible for the Americans to prevent Bitcoin transactions. But then there are major questions. How cheap is the electricity in Venezuela? Bitcoin is highly energy intensive and they need cheap electricity if they want to mine Bitcoins at a profit. And the most important question is whether they have access to mining hardware or not. Aren't these covered under the sanctions?

Bitcoin is undoubtedly the infallible option for them to survive in Venezuela, but most of the population does not understand or know about Bitcoin. The government tried to tokenize the economy with the Petro, it still continues to do so, but its tokens are meaningless.

Inflation is rampant, it is very difficult for economic measures to match a stable economic system. In Venezuela there is a dollarization, but a dollarization for the government but not for its citizens, that is, salaries are paid in Bs, and To get an idea 1Bs is equivalent to



Source: https://freecurrencyrates.com/es/convert-VEF-BTC#1

Which to be much more precise a salary is equivalent to only 4USD, being like this:



Source: https://www.bitven.com/

If this is what anyone earns in a job of at least 8h a day, it is obvious that many people turn to other jobs to generate income so that they can have at least one option to survive.

So if bitcoin for the average citizen were given as a payment measure, I think there would be an improvement, at this time it is obvious that Bitcoin crushes the Venezuelan economy without a doubt.

Socialism is more like an implemented political current, where even the main protagonists of socialism in Venezuela must own cryptocurrencies and bitcoin, because the government has mining machines to generate Bitcoin.

Earlier the petroleum resources in Venezuela were managed by the western companies. They had the technical knowledge to operate these resources in an efficient manner and within their circle there was no issue of corruption or nepotism. What the socialist government of Chavez did was to confiscate these resources without paying any compensation to the corporations which developed them. All the time, effort and technical knowledge that these companies spent on developing the oil resources of Venezuela went unrewarded.

The second issue is that after nationalization, the oil and natural gas resources were acquired by Petróleos de Venezuela (PDVSA). The PDVSA is full of political cronies who don't have enough expertise and it was no surprise that they couldn't manage these resources in an efficient manner. On top of inefficiency, the addition of corruption and nepotism made matters worse.

Capitalism, communism and socialism are "ideal" concepts (well socialism is supposed to lead to communism), that have not, and cannot, be applied in practice.

In practice we have various degrees of the three. For example in the US, 10 people can band together and create (or buy) a company and work in that company and earn their living that way. Workers owning their company, how communist !

What some here have talked about to defend socialism (and sometimes with political parties called "socialist party" so the confusion is easy) is in fact social-democracy. Social-democracy has elements of socialism, usually good public services, socialized medicine, education, etc.. But most of the economy is still in private hands, and thus capitalist. It's a good equilibrium of both.

Venezuela didn't try to go "full socialism", nationalizing oil companies for example isn't an issue in itself, if you consider how that resource is important for the country. However, it should have been managed well, and it wasn't. There are still rich people in Venezuela, and I'm not just talking about Maduro and his cronies, so clearly, Venezuela is no Soviet Union.

The country doesn't have enough forex reserves at hand to keep the national currency from falling. To make matters worse, their gold reserves (which were stored in London) got confiscated by the British government. So they lost whatever little gold reserves they were actually having. The government tried to pass the burden towards the citizens. They kept the exchange rates at artificially low levels, which is much different from the black market rates. Now the citizens don't have any option other than to use assets such as Bitcoin and gold to protect their wealth. Gold is also not preferred, because the chances of confiscation by the authorities is there.