Topic: Could someone provide evidence that the majority of Russians aren't insane? - page 6. (Read 10589 times)

His support may not be 80%, but definitely somewhere around 60% to 70%. And there are reasons for that. Non-Russian MSM can continue its propaganda campaign calling him a dictator, but the vast majority of the Russians don't care about that. The ordinary Russians are relieved that the US puppet (drunkard Yeltsin) was replaced with a strong minded person.

Hell yeah!

Seemed like there was a reply in there
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covert_United_States_foreign_regime_change_actions

Interventions in different countries the installation of puppet governments and dictators like Pinochet and the sponsoring of these pro-western governments while attacking their civilians.

Unless I missed something though


True but when you open up trade relations between private companies thats for a corporate agenda to kill nationalist companies and to do a wealth transfer to the richer nations.
Pretty much give us the raw material we will process it for you and then sell it back at triple the price.

Russia has a good reason not to trust the West (Primarily represented by the USA) especially near their home base, would be like your neighbor building a few missile bases in your backyard, kind of like if the Russians put more missiles in Cuba.

Yep.

It's one of the world's worst-kept secrets, along with the idea that nobody rules the world, and that gods don't count. There's basically constant anarchy on the global scene. Just look around.

Oh, I'm sure there are hundreds of secret societies and think-tanks in addition to the public governments and large corporate entities. Everyone is trying to influence everyone else. In this sense, the "insane" label is an extreme way of saying to someone else, "hey! You are doing things too differently and I don't like it."

I'm sure it's possible to have a constructive dialogue, even if it starts with name-calling, but it requires good will and openness from all sides.

Not necessarily. Insanity, I would call wanting one thing but doing something which leads to something unwanted, then continuing to do that, expecting it to work (beyond a reasonable number of tries to make sure it wasn't an anomaly - so maybe an outfit tries an experimental ebola cure on 50 people and they die at the same rate as if they were untreated, and then they continue trying the drug exclusively on 1000 more patients -- while ten trials may've been reasonable, I think most reasonable people would say trying it again on 1000 people is insane). Insanity, at least here, is a euphemism for stupid. For example, a reasonable person may look at the US giving Congress a 10% approval rating, look at the >90% Congressional re-election rate, and come to the conclusion that the vast majority are either insane/stupid, or have a very diverse set of views and base their approval on whether or not Congress as a whole or their individual member generally acts in line with the individual's viewpoints, where the majority of Congress may be at odds with (or just not care about) ideas the individual and their Congressperson care about. -So maybe Bill Billstein, Congressperson of the 29th District, won his seat because he campaigned on ending the black market involving artichokes, but Congress couldn't give half a damn about the black market for artichokes. -And maybe Jim Jimski of the 10th district won by campaigning on a platform where he'd stop immigration from Bahrain, but Congress has no beef with the people of Bahrain nor really give a damn about them.

You can maybe make the leap of logic from OP in determining what I consider insane. It's definitely vague, though. I wanted a diverse conversation which ended up with many different points of focus, though I'm still very interested in learning more about the Russian Mafia, which I find little credible info on. Maybe they really are a minor player in Russia -- Idunno. Again - thanks everyone for the replies so far.

Far too simplistic. Cowboys and Villains style.

EU - "West" would not for example consent to any of its member nations to freely
exchange agricultural products with a non-EU members. There
are tariffs that protect EU member producers.

Ukraine and Russia had a free-trade contract. EU began unilateral talks
about removing their trade barriers with Ukraine and to my knowledge
never even tried diplomacy to address Russia's concern about EU products
entering Russian market in the absence of trade agreements. That's what
really started the present troubles.

What is insanity here? Is it subjective?
When Russians like something that westerners don't like and the other way around, can it be called insanity?

OK, this is getting annoying.

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/tu-quoque



Just provide a legitimate answer to the criticism instead of changing the subject all the time. You guys are really far too sensitive.

Riiiiiiiiiight

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Covert_United_States_foreign_regime_change_actions

This is a good example of Russian insanity. When "The West" talks about integrating countries into its community, they are talking about opening up trade restrictions and expanding economic relations, mainly between private companies. When the Russia hears about integration, they immediately think "imperialistic expansion and installing puppet governments." Because that's what the Russia's policy itself is, or was, most of the time. (Sure, USA is guilty of that too at times, but USA is not the entirety of "the west")

Firstly, no need, you're doing a pretty good job of it yourselves!


Secondly: insanity, or lack of sanity, is a social judgment by definition. The claim "I am sane" is meaningless in isolation. Why should you care if I care if you think you are sane and 'normal' and a well-adjusted individual if you live somewhere in a different part of the world? It's bullshit. Your state of mind doesn't matter to me if it does not affect me in any way. If we try to establish objective criteria to define sanity, we automatically find that one of the requirements is to have peers arguing and deciding over the definition! The claim "I am insane" is just a variation of the Liar Paradox.

One of Russia's 'problems' today is that they are not isolated, although I guess some Russians would prefer it if they were. Since you are not isolated, you must learn to face criticism, FEEDBACK, that informs you about your state. If you don't like this information, then that's good! You're not supposed to like it. You're supposed to learn from it.

It cannot be a Russian invention. Similarly, Westerners cannot claim that they are insane, they must rely on an outside perspective (Russia, Asia, etc.) to criticise their actions.

I'll throw a bone in here simply put economy
Where the West wanted to make more puppet states and to expand its territory Russia came in to intervene and prevent that.
Battle of resources etc even the Ukraine is about Pipeline Politics for those that recall Crimea in the Ukraine  
http://qz.com/191651/russias-invasion-of-crimea-has-caused-it-to-lose-the-latest-battle-in-the-pipeline-wars/
Current battle is over the South Stream
http://journal-neo.org/2014/06/27/ukraine-and-the-battle-for-south-stream/


Once Vladimir Putin became president, the Russian economy started to grow very rapidly.  Today, Russia is an economic powerhouse that is blessed with an abundance of natural resources.  Their debt to GDP ratio is extremely small, they actually run a trade surplus every year, and they have the second most powerful military on the entire planet.
http://www.cogwriter.com/news/prophecy/russia-is-stronger-vladimir-putin-is-credited-and-usa-is-upset/

But from this article 6 Key Points (All Cited too interestingly enough why I mentioned the Cog link ignore that Eurasian Union stuff )

#1 Russia produces more oil than anyone else on the planet.  The United States is in third place.

#2 Russia is the number two oil exporter in the world.  The United States is forced to import more oil than anyone else in the world.

#3 Russia produces more natural gas than anyone else on the planet.  The United States is in second place.

#4 Today, Russia supplies 34 percent of Europe’s natural gas needs.

#5 The United States has a debt to GDP ratio of 101 percent.  Russia has a debt to GDP ratio of about 8 percent.

#6 The United States had a trade deficit of more than half a trillion dollars last year.  Russia consistently runs a large trade surplus.



    On February 4th, 2013, Vladimir Putin, the Russian president, addressed the Duma, (Russian Parliament), and gave a speech about the tensions with minorities in Russia:

 ”In Russia live Russians. Any minority, from anywhere, if it wants to live  in Russia, to work and eat in Russia, should speak Russian, and should respect the Russian laws. If they prefer Sharia Law, then we advise them to go to those places where that’s the state law. Russia does not need  minorities.

 Minorities need Russia, and we will not grant them special privileges, or try to change our laws to fit their desires, no matter how loud they yell ‘discrimination’. We better learn from the suicides of America, England, Holland and France, if we are to survive as a nation.

The Russian customs and traditions are not compatible with the lack of culture or the primitive ways of most minorities. When this honorable legislative body thinks of creating new laws, it should have in mind the national interest first, observing that the minorities are not Russians.”
    http://henrymakow.com/2013/08/putin-on-minority-rightson-feb.html#sthash.nBnJEzw4.dpuf

It made a fair point on the USA

I was also taught that the old Soviet Union was overly focused on spying on its people and spying on others.  But now, it is the USA that seems to have that top distinction in the world in 2013 and 2014 ^^.

___

In their own words, those attending the Atlantic Council gathering describe the battle for Ukraine being fought to “complete” their socioeconomic consolidation in Europe – this includes “integrating Russia.” Secretary John Kerry at the gathering would literally state:

    Our European Allies have spent more than 20 years with us working to integrate Russia into the Euro-Atlantic community.

By “integrating” Russia, of course, Kerry means overthrowing any independent national political order that exists in Moscow and replacing it with one that answers to Wall Street, London, and now Brussels. This can be seen clearly in attempts by the West to replicate its model of “color revolution” within Russian territory itself.

But Kerry and the rest of EU-NATO, recognizing that efforts to subvert and overthrow an independent political order in Russia have failed, have resorted to a policy of encirclement, containment, and confrontation, with Ukraine being only one of many battlefields the West is fighting upon. Kerry would declare Europe’s energy market as another.

He stated (emphasis added):

    “…if we want a Europe that is both whole and free, then we have to do more together immediately, with a sense of urgency, to ensure that European nations are not dependent on Russia for the majority of their energy.

I'll give Putin that much. He could probably go toe to toe with Obama and beat the living shit out of him.

It'd be so BAD, Ahmedinajad would pull Putin off of Obama saying,"Thats enough man, thats enough."

Putin is as close as you can get to a dictator without actually being called a dictator, and 80% of Russians support him? Even George W Bush never got anywhere near that amount of support, despite being an imperialist asshole.

Even Putin likes Pussy Riot!

Do not equate creativity and new ideas with insanity.

The difference between the two can be blurred at times.

HMMM. The animal sex routine exposes a strange facet of the Russian psyche best left unexplored.......

They still don't beat GG Allin's feces eating routine. I will NOT post a link.

HEY, this thread is supposed to be evidence Russos aren't utterly batshit crazy

Have you added their public acts of animal sex into your book?

http://rutube.ru/video/cf2ef300b1874c7d3da8f5d8f6a50ae8/

Russia is the homeland of Pussy Riot, which gives them some points in my book.

They are experiencing punk rock style anarcho-freedom, and the Russians imprisoned them,

but did not KILL them, which is a good sign of tolerance, for their system, at least.

Kluge, let me reverse the question. As this whole "Russians are insane" stigma is a Western invention (I think it originated in the Hollywood propaganda film "The Hunt for Red October", but maybe earlier), and as those who make a hypothesis have the burden of proving it, let me ask:

Could someone from the West provide evidence that the majority of Russians are insane?


Funny to see this remark full of rage about a man who has shown the most level-headedness and calm in this turbulent political atmosphere.. 
But it reinforces the pattern that whenever Russia has a strong leader that is good for Russia, that leader gets foul-mouthed from the West, and whenever Russia has a weak leader that leads the country into ruin, that leader gets praised in the West.