Topic: Count down to Iran invasion - page 12. (Read 41923 times)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/9058443/Panetta-believes-Israel-may-strike-Iran-this-spring.html

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/third-aircraft-carrier-group-coming-iran

hahahaha, "Counter-sanctions", so to speak. Awesome.

oh the foolishness of european politicians.

Iran has already called our bluff by stopping oil exports to the EU well before the sanctions were supposed to be activated. Quite clever really, and completely reasonable. Now we will have to buy (Iranian) oil from the Chinese for more money. The Iranians and Chinese are laughing all the way to the bank.

http://english.farsnews.com/newstext.php?nn=9010172771

I agree with that.

I actually think we should be as friendly as possible to the Iranians (people and regime).

As a citizen of Europe I feel ashamed for the sanctions (oil, financial, trade) we impose. It's clear they are not going to have a positive effect. They will have a negative one on Europes economy and standing in the world. They will also have a negative effect on the USD and EUR (because alternative currencies and gold are now being used to trade with Iran). This last effect I like a lot (not because I hold any amounts of metal worth mentioning, but because I want monetary reform, the sooner the better).

I'm implying that even if you disagree violently with the Iranian regime, you have no quarrel with the population of Iran.  I'm also implying that if you still insist on going to war, that killing all those people will be a war crime.  Finally I imply that it won't be a turkey shoot - you need to be prepared to lose a lot of your own people in your quest to kill Iranians if that is really what you want.

The funny thing here is that you could just read the sentence I wrote and take it at face value.  The implied meaning is the same as the literal meaning

I think he is implying its okay to wipe out a democracy because then its the people's fault for believing they have sovereign rights.  When its a dictatorship or theocracy you do the same thing, but you have to call it differently, you call it "liberation".

You're probably not implying that it would be less difficult and/or less genocidal to "wipe them out" if Iran was indeed a democracy, are you?

Iran has a population of about 80 million.  Its not a democracy - the regime has the Iranian population much the same way a sheep farmer has sheep.  Wiping them out would be genocide and, as a practical matter, would be very difficult. 

If they don't stop their nuclear thing they will probably just be wiped out

We'll just have to see

And you have better sources than the FBI, CIA, DIA, NSA, CGI, INSCOM and a dozen other US security agencies.. combined? Because they unanimously stated they are pretty damn sure Iran has given up their nuclear weapons program last decade - if ever there was one, they arent nearly as sure of that. But you know better?


So you say Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Bahrein,  Canada and Nigeria are all developing nukes?  Or whats different about Iran?


Yes, it does. Or more accurately, it detects it years before it could ever produce a bomb. Its not very hard to detect uranium thats enriched beyond whats needed for fuel when you have full access to all nuclear installations. You dont make bomb grade uranium in a shed behind your house. No signatory to the NPT has ever in secret produced nuclear weapons, and its not very likely to ever happen.

I don't believe Iran will give up on the bomb.  Its got proven oil and gas resources that mean it will always be a target for foreign takeovers and the lesson of Iraq and North Korea is that having a nuke means no risk of invasion.  The NPT is not going to stop it.

The US will never sanction Israel so why waste time arguing for it?

Any minute now...

Russian expert: Iran will be apparently attacked from Georgia’s territory http://www.panarmenian.net/eng/news/86722/

First, please dont twist my words.
Secondly, dont exaggerate  Depending on source Iran does 180 to 250 executions per year, most of them for actual criminal offenses. The US isnt that far behind in its number of executions. Compared to European countries you could regard the US regime as mass murders. Im against capital punishment, but the Iranian regime is not nearly as diabolical as what the western media try to make them. Even Colombia kills more political opponents than Iran, but that doesnt often make the press in the US Im sure.



To some extend, yes they are. Precisely what they are allowed under the NPT treaty which sole purpose is avoiding proliferation of nuclear weapons, a treaty Iran signed and adheres to, while the existing nuclear powers blatantly violate that same treaty. You have to draw the line somewhere; if you want to prevent countries from obtaining nukes you could keep their population illiterate and claim literacy is a first step to developing nukes. Thats of course ridiculous. The NPT is completely sane and logical line in the sand and a pretty good guarantee. Either stick to it, or encourage proliferation. You cant have it both ways. Iran is entitled to uranium enrichment for civilian use.


Hey, for once,  I agree. We are giving them every possible reason to pull out of the NPT and actually develop nukes. And yet they dont. I give credit to the Iranians for not doing that. Their religious nutheads even pronounced a fatwa on nuclear weapons. Id like Christian nutheads to do the same.

 

I never said that. All I said is that under the NPT safeguards, Iran can not build a nuclear weapon without us knowing. So if ever they pull out, THEN you could consider whatever it takes, even a full blown war. Youd still have years to plan for that.


Again you twist my words. If you are worried about a nuclear war in the middle east, my top priority would be getting all countries to enter the NPT and stick with the NPT. ITs not perfect, but its the best we have to prevent proliferation. Bombing and sanctioning  Iran while it adheres to the NPT achieves  the exact opposite. So why dont we focus on sanctioning Israel?

You are entitled to disagree.  I regard a regime that relies on mass murder to remain in power as unstable - you regard it as stable. 

I believe Iran is creating the capacity to make nukes. Given their history of Western powers overthrowing democratic governments in pursuit of oil concessions, the Irans would be daft not to.

You seem to think that it is easy to stop them - Iran is not a pushover.  Air strikes can only slow things down and rally support for the regime.  An invasion would cost too much in blood and treasure.  Iran won't be stopped easily if at all.

You don't think its a bad idea if every country has its own nuclear arsenal.  My view is that the more countries have nukes, the greater the probability they will be used.  Every addition to the nuclear club is a ratcheting up of the risk.

And I disagree on all accounts. I disagree "instability" plays a role (*). I disagree that they will have a bomb; even US intelligence agencies say they are not working on one. I disagree they could not be stopped if ever they changed their mind, which they can not do in secret.  And Im not even sure if somehow they got nukes, it would be so terrible. Not when North Korea, Israel and particularly Pakistan and India have them. Iranian Mullahs may be religious nuts, they are neither suicidal nor genocidal. They would have absolutely no reason to use them first. None. I would worry more about the Israeli arsenal.

(*) if anything all the warmongering, sanctions and threats -not too mention, terrorist attacks inside Iran-  to counter a non-existent nuclear weapon program are causing instability and inciting Iran to develop nukes if for no other reason as M.A.D. self defense. If you really dont want Iran to have nukes, then keep them in the NPT, rather than deny them what they are explicitly entitled to within the NPT and at the same time give them every reason to leave the NPT. A 6 year old could understand that, clearly the issue isnt iranian nukes.

slightly ot, but: yesssss!

http://rt.com/news/iran-india-gold-oil-543/

Read my posts.  I said its a bad thing that they will have the bomb but that there is no way to stop them.