Topic: Crypto lender Celsius mulls possible restructuring amid financial woes - page 4. (Read 3087 times)

Your post comes off as a bit scaremongery... reminds me of the panic now, omg,  emoji..

If you had not thought about it, you can also talk about those kinds of ideas in this thread or even create another thread on this forum for such topics.. rather than referring forum members to an outside group... or even to refer to some group that might have some potentially questionable OPsec issues.

I am not going to deny that substantively "claw back" could be an issue for some Celsius account holders who might have withdrew relatively large amounts of BTC (or other crypto  - shitcoins or cash)..  In that regard, the bigger of a player that such Celsius account holder would have been, then the more potential that such larger withdrawals could be subject to claw back... and on a personal level, I believe it would be way better to have had withdrawn from Celsius.. even if potentially subject to receiving some kind of a clawback notice or even a legal document.. rather than to have not have had withdrawn and to have my coins stuck in bankruptcy proceedings.

The clawback issue is not as BIG of a deal (depending on personal details.. ) as having funds that are currently not able to be withdrawn because of bankruptcy proceedings.

Also, consider where you are at?  How easy is it to serve you with notice?  and how likely will you be pursued?  consider your behavior and how you had withdrawn.. was it less than $10k less than $100k more than a $1million?.. was it right before they shut off withdrawals or more than a month beforehand?  You are not necessarily engaging in strange behaviors if you are acting like a regular client, but of course details could make a difference in regards to whether they would actually even serve you clawback notice or even go to the next step of pursuing your legally in order to claw back however much that you may have ended up withdrawing before or as the Celsius scammening ship was sinking... and I am not going to even assume that you were enlightened in your withdrawal .. since you had been considering that it was a good idea to be earning yield on your money.. was it dollars? bitcoin? or some shitcoin(s)?

If anyone here also withdrew crypto in the 90 days before CELSIUS went down, like me, there is a risk of getting sued for that money from the bankruptcy estate (‘CLAWBACK’). Sounds like a bad joke, but that seems to be US bankruptcy law. I’ll take guidance from the big clawback telegram group with some professionals in them on how to defend against that. If you withdrew more than 10k worth of crypto in the 90 days before the Celsius' Fall i want to motivate you to go to this big telegram group and read the Stickies:
https://t.me/+My2UN1PsHWVkZjcx

edit:
1,5 minutes about Retail Clawbacks in Celsius from video from Aaron Benett from a few hours ago:
https://youtu.be/FNoyhDCJbwM?t=282

They have already sent 2 paper letters and the most important message is I have to do nothing 

If giving money back to both Celsius and ftx would make you insolvent, you are unlikely to be required to go into debt to repay both bankruptcy estates of Celsius and ftx.

Even if you were required to repay certain amounts withdrawn, you would likely not be required to repay the full amount. Rather, offsetting would likely be used so you repay what you would have been clawed back, minus what you would receive after assets are distributed.

My suggestion is to contact a qualified attorney who can give you advice for your specific situation.

No matter what people on Twitter or anywhere else say, check with official sources and ask experts who are responsible for this case. My guess is that you can contact Stretto support from https://cases.stretto.com/celsius, explain to them what message you received on your phone, mention that your name is on the list, and ask if you need to do anything. That way you will be certain you are doing the right thing.

From what I understand, if your name is on the list (which you said it is) and if the amount you had at the moment Celsius declared bankruptcy is correct, you don't have to submit proof of claim. Just to add that I don't have money there and its purely how I understood it after talking to some friends that have money stuck on Celsius.

Can anyone help? Celsius has sent notification on smartphone regards the deadline to submit a proof of claim on the court (January 03, 2023).

I don't know if I have to do something. On the official Stretto's list of customers my name is there within the amount of bitcoins I had on my account at the moment of the bankruptcy.

On Twitter people said if your name is on that list you have to do nothing, but I'm not sure and would like to hear more opinions.

Well, the dominos have fallen and Celsius is amongst them.  Even if they make it out, unfortunately, the investors will be screwed as usual.  Oh the perils of centralization and the tangled web they weave.

There is clearly precedence in Chapter 11 bankruptcy filings for non-crypto financial entities. As far as I am aware, Celsius will be the first time such a law has been tested for crypto.

This raises some very interesting points. Given that FTX is now insolvent, you can prove you do not have access to the funds. Or what if someone withdrew from Celsius, deposited to FTX, and then withdrew the same capital from FTX? There would now be two different entities both trying to clawback the same funds. Very messy situation indeed.

Given that you are a non-US citizen, Celsius would likely have to pursue you through the legal system of whatever country you reside in. This would be both a lengthy and costly process for them. Unless you withdrew crypto worth millions of dollars, it probably isn't going to be worth their time to come after you.

I doubt that there would be distinction between principle and yield, but there would largely be a look at whether the transaction was made within the 90 days prior the bancrupcy filing - and yes there is precedence for clawback, but it might not be easy for clawback to occur with all jurisdictions, and sometimes they would be threatening to take legal action.. but may or may not be able to actually successfully take legal action (and it may not be worth it for them to actually follow through with clawback legal action, except maybe transactions of a certain size).     

I doubt that you need to worry as much as you are dramatically proclaiming that you need to worry, even though with any case we sometimes need to prepare for any possible scenario, even worse case scenarios - but people go crazy and even come to the wrong conclusions and actions when they dwell on scenarios that are less likely to happen prior to the scenario showing solid evidence that some variation of it could end up happening.

Clawback:
I am extremely afraid of clawback stuff. I wonder how probable it is. And if there is presidence.
I am happy to give back all my yields. Giving them all my principal would ruin me. Especially cause i went from Celsius to ftx.
I am literally having a panic attack here.
How would that look like. I am non-us citizen in europe.

@Rikafip. Yes it appears that some people in social media are overexcited in discovering some known names in the list hehe. There were also other names in the list that had similar names with some known maximalists in the bitcoin community like John Carvalho and Jonas Schnelli. Peter McCormack was also very quick in criticizing Carvalho with the wrong information hehehehe.

Well, according to info from that website he only had bitcoin on Celsius, so I guess he didn't touch shitcoins. 



He confirmed it on twitter that it was indeed him, but he also said that $56k amount was a wrong calculation and that he actually had only $0.56 worth of bitcoin on Celsius.


https://twitter.com/JasonPLowery/status/1579587441799106560

There might be other names in the list that might be very disappointing to see for the bitcoin community if the data are true. Does anyone know Jason Lowery? I saw him being mentioned in social media as a laser eyes, there is no second best, never touching shitcoins type of holder. It might only be a person with the same name, however. We cannot be certain with less known people.

I found this screenshot in social media. A similar search would give only $0.55 lost.

I don't get the  "even", aren't they allowed to have coins, get tricked into scams, or lose their money?
Besides, he might not even be Japanese, one grandfather is from Japan, and the rest are all Brazilian or Irish, or Turkish 

But seems like there are "lucky" guys also, that probably didn't put all their money there, clicking the random button I stumbled upon this:


I think he is one of the ones that will find it easy to get over the loss.



This one is going to be interesting, especially since the robbers were never caught, he claimed millions in lost coins and he still somehow managed to hide despite being under torture at least 15 million. Pretty sure the police will find this also quite interesting, and the IRS also.
https://www.europeworldnews.com/changes-in-the-official-statement-from-the-founder-of-tuenti-cast-doubts-on-researchers-about-what-happened-to-the-alleged-theft-of-their-btc/

Yep, number is constantly changing. That guy on the top has ~2080 BTC in there, which means that his total deposit was much higher at one moment, USD wise. To think that someone would send that amount of bitcoins to a third party platform for a measly 9-10% APY is beyond me, but I guess he thought it was easy money so why not and few of my friends thought the same.


Someone decided to make it easier for tax service and those who plan $5 wrench attacks.


I sure hope that they didn't put their whole portfolio there and that is just a fraction of what they own, but I saw some people having like 10-15 different cryptocurrencies deposited there so some might have used Celsius as a cold storage.

Now I even see people posting random tweets with real name of people and amount of money they lost in Celsius, this is getting more crazy every day.
You can also see clear steps how crypto influencers like Maren Altman (crypto astrology girl) and Crypto Lark got paid like 15,000 per month for shilling!
I bet you can find all kinds of juicy information in this 14000 pages long document

Oh nice, so this is the website they are using to post tweets about money they lost.
Ex-Rich list is big, and there is even one Japanese guy

Check Zaryn Dentzel's 7th on this list. btw. about them: https://www.newsweek.com/bitcoin-millionaire-zaryn-dentzel-beaten-fortune-stolen-masked-robbery-cryptocurrency-1645550

this is even more twisted though
I find on Reddit https://cases.stretto.com/public/x191/11749/PLEADINGS/1174910062280000000005.pdf
on the 34th page, click on the first letter of your first name. it will open new documents where you can find your name. Of course, all Celsius users which passed KYC and with some value on the account.
addresses are redacted, but it seems that it is not difficult to connect them with real owners.

Huh, people are getting creative with that file so someone made a website that shows how much each person has (had) on Celsius and even made leaderboard according to which top loser had ~40 million USD.
https://celsiusnetworth.com/

 

I initially thought it was a leak as well based on some wrong wordings I read in crypto-related news, but after talking with o_e_l_e_o about it in a different topic, I understood that the court requires it as part of Celsius' bankruptcy proceedings. Unfortunately, court documentation needs to be public. At least the addresses have been removed, which is a small positive in a sea of negative.   

Celsius is to be blamed for the bankruptcy.
Its customers are at fault for trusting them with their money.
And the court is responsible for making all data public and available for the whole world to see and use any way they want.