Topic: Cygan abuses DT - Proof! - page 2. (Read 853 times)

ooops - fixed

I see you've included LTU_btc on your Trust list. That doesn't make sense either: he never left any feedback and hasn't included anyone in his Trust list. There's literally no way of knowing whether or not he'll use the Trust system correctly, so he shouldn't be on DT2.
Note that I'm not saying he'll abuse it, it just doesn't make sense to include him at this point.

In business you can't say I'm trustworthy.
In DT, adding anyone who has left a positive trust for you to your trust list is equal of saying "I'm trustworthy". That's for others to decide whether you are or not.

You haven't sent a lot of feedbacks and also you haven't been noticed by a lot of people. I can't remember if I have seen this username before this time. Also, it doesn't guarantee that you will be included when you sent a lot of feedback. Your sent feedback accuracy should be good and helpful for others when they trade. It's all about actively participating in the trust system and also in the forum discussion (to get noticed by others).

Account registered on April 20, 2014 with 211 posts and activity of 211, no single custom trust list to your profile. What do you expect?

Hell, I got to know that you existed in this forum just today 

You read the post correctly, you just unfortunately understand the situation wrongly.

Cygan was referring to "positive feedback" [please take note that we should start treating the terms "feedback" and "trust" as two different system and not interchangeable], as in they made a successful deal and he asked for a feedback for other customer's future reference. If he did any mistake, as been stated numerous times on this thread, is that he didn't understand how the new trust system work. He added the people he successfully dealing with into his trust list instead of simply leaving positive feedback, unaware of it's recursive effect.

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I'm inviting MrCryptHodl to this thread, as this thread has been so insightful for Cygan, I hoped MrCryptHodl is also on the same simple clueless shoes with Cygan on the trust list system, generating bunch of DT2, and will find this thread useful.

Edit: oh?! Just realized today that he's been err... demoted from DT1. Nonetheless, hopefully this thread still could help him better understand the feedback and trust system.

As per that logic, I should have been in many people's trust list by now. But, fortunately or unfortunately, I am not.

Tell me why?

If they woke up, that was to get reimbursed for the ColdKeys fiasco.

No. If anything, cygan is doing the opposite of what yogg did.

That's something to discuss in another topic.

@all those who have posted their comments here
i understand your positive as well as the negative 'thoughts' or 'advantages' (no matter how you want to call it now) to create a separate thread here. i don't blame airfinex for going this way (thread) and as recommended by others here also not the other way (pm) - perhaps his passing will be different in the next case as well
in any case, it has now moved me to be even more careful to pay attention to the trust system and also to deal with this very complex topic even more than it is perhaps dear to someone - even as a long-standing legendary member, you are still capable of learning and is not automatically omniscient with this status.
and maybe this thread now has an effect on other users, who should have a look at their own trust list - who knows

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these are/were users who are mostly active in the collectibles area. i did not force them to put a trust in me but pleaded for voluntariness to leave this act (refundig, which i did voluntarily) as a positive feedback for me.
and if the users then become inactive again and/or only reappear when there is something interesting for them in the collectibles area again, i can't influence that.

I still find it suss users woke up specifically to give cygan positive trust feedback, were gifted DT2 status and have then gone back to sleep.

(Plus cygan said he's requested the positive trust feedback - if I'm reading their post correctly)

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Like yogg did?

Have you noticed Dabs hasn't come back since they were outted for doing this very same thing?

Not only that, it creates an open invitation to members to leave particular DT1 members positive trust in order to get included as a DT2 member, if that is the precedent.
Especially if a thread has been documented that a DT1 member does this, and doesn't change their ways (mentioning no names, ie not cygan!)


Probably because the situation is better explained by more experienced users, as has been the case. Not everyone responds to PMs either about these things...


Not sure what staff has to do with DT, virtually nothing as far as I understand. It's simply a lot more likely cygan would listen to higher-ranking members, rather than a single lower ranking member criticising thier trust list. I really don't understand your point overall, unless it's to try and discourage DT members being criticised in public which sounds like a dangerous precedent to encourage.

What the OP did, while probably a bit more "aggressive" in the wording than necessary given cygan's response to the issue, is the recommended thing to do if you think someone is abusing DT trust. There is no drama, as cygan has quickly recognised the errors in their trust inclusions and is rectifying them. Drama would be aggressively defending themselves, ignoring criticism, attacking the OP, etc, etc.


Congrats on taking the criticism on board and taking the time to review your trust list, sometimes it seems like a rare occurrence that DT members can take constructive criticism, let alone appreciate it!

I appreciate your attitude because you understand how we should use the DT trust system especially trusting users judgement is entirely different from you trust the user for trading with them. Personally I am giving much attention to creating my own trust list so I only included few which means I just go with the Default Trust list.

it's perfectly fine to express such things through the thread, cygan got a lot more clarification on what he's doing wrong. this probably attracted more attention to him.


uncontrolled and improper use of the trust system will probably result in being on the distrust list of other DT1 members who take care of its proper use. for example, member trankil also does not recognize the proper use of the trust system. In addition to leaving feedback without references, it is very difficult to determine the truth of his claims, also his feedbacks are in opposition to each other.

positive feedback to yogg is still there, while at the same time, there is feedback where it is written about yogg scams. now think how confusing it can be for someone who comes for the first time and is not fully informed about the whole thing. at the same time, there are no references to do personal research.

Why create this thread alleging you have proof cygan has abused DT instead of contacting him via PM first? It is clear cygan is not a scammer and it is equally clear he is not indulging in what is deemed to be nefarious conduct therefore maybe the better course of action could have been sending him a PM laying out any concerns you may have had and allowed him ample time to respond.

Yes looking at his record, cygan certainly seems decent to me too and that makes me think the OP creating this thread is an overreaction.

That would be the most plausible outcome, cygan would not have known his inclusions are bringing those accounts on to DT2. There does not seem to be any malicious intent on his part. It does make me wonder why the OP felt the need to start a thread about this issue and end up creating a whole unnecessary drama when he could easily just sent a PM to cygan to raise any concerns.

That is the reason why this thread was an unnecessary. The OP is not a staff member but seems to know a lot about DT therefore he could have contacted you directly to bring it to your attention but opted to not do that.

Take your time, it is your trust list and you have a right to evaluate it properly in your own time without any unduly pressure

That is one of the wonderful things about the forum, You have been around the forum a long time, much longer than me and most others I interact with and also longer than those that have posted in this thread but it is an ongoing learning process. We all more or less learn things we never knew (or fully understood) about before and each member learns at their own pace.

i understand the trust system already so slowly and your hints/posts/links have contributed to it now quite a bit 🙏
please give me some time now so that i can revise my trust list calmly and carefully

You include users with whose judgement you trust. Users that have left positive and negative trust on other users that is accurate and who are not scammers.

When you trade with someone and it goes pos or neg you open the trust page and can click post new feedback. Then leave them a + or - review for your trade.

If you trust someones judgement and they seem to leave accurate feedback you click trust settings and add them to your list. If they leave bad ratings on people you click trust settings and ~xxxxx name and exclude them from your list.


I think this is a common occurrence in collectibles. Easiest place to farm trust just like wall observer is the easiest place to farm merit. I don't think you did anything wrong, maybe just misunderstand the trust system. Hopefully what LoyceV and others have posted here helps you.

gotcha!
so i only include users in my 'trust list' who have been noticed positively/negatively in the past with another forum user or were already members as dt1/2 - correct?

First: agreed. It's a case of "not great, not terrible".


I'll take Sarduk as an example. His Trust list is empty:
He only sent feedback to you. I see no reason why he should be on DT2.

Don't include people in your trust list because they have dealt with you and you can trust them with money. This deserves a feedback.
When someone leaves accurate feedback in your perspective, only include them in your trust list. If they leave wrong feedback, exclude them from trust list.
For reference, LoyceV guide is the best- https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/loycevs-beginners-guide-to-correct-use-of-the-trust-system-5191802

Once again-
1. You have trade with someone? Leave feedback.
2. You trust someone's judgement based on the feedback they sent- Include them in your trust list.

i find these accusations false and too exaggerated.
maybe i have not understood the trust system 100% correctly (as 1miau, Little Mouse or yahoo62278 have written) but with all users who have given me a trust, i have also made a deal (in the form of a trade or in the form of a refund)
and the trust entries (between 23-03 and 24-03) came so directly one after the other, because i asked the said users (voluntarily) to leave me a trust.
and if one of the users turns out to be a scammer or a non-trustworthy user, he will be kicked as fast as he was added to my list (see e.g. the user yogg).

but as i said, if i didn't understand the dt-system correctly, a staff-member or someone who knows a lot about it should inform me about it and i will then remove some users again
btw i don't even know now which users i should remove from my trust list and which could stay in (i don't see any difference)

just my 2 sats