Daily use of bitcoin? - page 41. | Bitcointalksearch.org

Rizky Aditya

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Quote from: Michel de Montaigne on January 16, 2017, 04:56:32 AM

Hi friends,

As far as I know, bitcoin payments take a little time to approve. Will these approval times make it difficult to use bitcoin in our daily lives?
For example, I would get a coffee from Starbucks. Do I have to wait for approval to pay for what I have done for hours?

If you really want to spend your Bitcoin in your daily life, then it is probably smart to get a Bitcoin debit card. You can use it just like a normal debit card and you can use it at places that don't accept Bitcoin.

Quote from: Tanic on January 16, 2017, 05:02:12 AM

I heard that Starbucks already started to accept bitcoin as payment. I don't imagine how it work exactly, because of I have no place here that would accept bitcoin. But I think such transactions in place that work with bitcoin all operations provided as fast as with a card.

Really? I never heard that they started doing that. What country is that in?

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Quote from: Michel de Montaigne on January 16, 2017, 04:56:32 AM

Hi friends,

As far as I know, bitcoin payments take a little time to approve. Will these approval times make it difficult to use bitcoin in our daily lives?
For example, I would get a coffee from Starbucks. Do I have to wait for approval to pay for what I have done for hours?

You may want to try some website wallets that do have an application too for android or IOS. I am using one but it is for withdrawal only I havent tried paying through it. But I tell you it is way faster than I thought. I just wait for 3 minutes I think then my account number and password will come which will be input on an ATM machine.

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Quote from: nelson4lov on January 17, 2017, 05:25:17 PM

Quote from: TastyChillySauce00 on January 17, 2017, 04:07:04 AM

Quote from: ReLieD on January 17, 2017, 04:00:10 AM

It is just as other modes or ways of payment.
Bitcoin transactions are fast when it comes to paying/using it in Starbucks etc.
It takes exactly the same time as credit / debit cards take.
So it wouldnt matter.

Probably the payment gateway which Starbucks and etc were using are enabling some sort of zero confirmation, therefore, you don't need to wait for some confirmation and your transaction just considered done after you're sending the exact amount to the address they were mentioned. Otherwise, it's not so fast if those merchants were requiring few confirmations

Is there something like a zero transaction confirmation? If there was, It'll be more better. You see, That's one of the downsides of bitcoin. Waiting at a store for extra 20- 30 minutes (sometimes, It's less) because You used bitcoin as a payment method

No there is not zero network confirmation. Although bitcoin is a payment system and is internet money if we want to use it for micro-payment transactions is pain in the ass. That is, nobody will wait for network confirmation. On the other side, even there is a debate, if is secure or isn't bitcoin, people are developing lightning networks (LN). With LN tiny payments with reasonable fees and almost instantly confirmations will be a reality. Recently developers of lightning networks announced the alpha release https://news.bitcoin.com/lightning-network-alpha-release/

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Quote from: richardsNY on January 17, 2017, 06:38:57 PM

Quote from: delliaerd on January 17, 2017, 06:23:30 PM

In my point of view, this is a problem which the developer of bitcoin should fix. When we want to use bitcoin for daily needs, the Confirmation of the transaction sometimes arrive late Even up to more than ten minutes. So i hope it will fix and we can get faster confirmation.

Fixing happens when something is broken, and exactly that isn't the case. Confirmation times are indeed not suited for using Bitcoin to buy groceries for example, but the high fees also make it less interesting for people. But that's something that is related to the pools and not the developers themselves. In the coming years we'll see the fees increase even further as it will be a more important source of income for pools due to block halvings.

If that is the case, mass adoption might not become a reality. Unless the transaction fees come with added benefits, that is just not going to sit well with ordinary people and to those who are just making small transactions here and there. I can think of bonus points or some other perks that is merchant-based to attract people to use bitcoin as payment.

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Quote from: onnz423 on January 17, 2017, 05:22:49 PM

Atleast here on finland there is few restaurants, bars and coffee places where you can pay with bitcoin. Also few food stores, but i would not recommend them since the workers did not really know how to use bitcoin, and they had to call their boss etc. So it was fairly frustrating to wait at the cashier.

I'd of found the experience enjoyable purely for the chance to use bitcoin in real life Grin

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Quote from: onnz423 on January 17, 2017, 05:22:49 PM

Atleast here on finland there is few restaurants, bars and coffee places where you can pay with bitcoin. Also few food stores, but i would not recommend them since the workers did not really know how to use bitcoin, and they had to call their boss etc. So it was fairly frustrating to wait at the cashier.

It must be a very good thing, because in most countries there are no physical places to spend Bitcoin. In fact, I think even in third world countries there are people taking initiatives and adopting the currency in physical stores, but the number of options should be rather limited, as such individuals certainly offer services in a few locations.

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Quote from: delliaerd on January 17, 2017, 06:23:30 PM

In my point of view, this is a problem which the developer of bitcoin should fix. When we want to use bitcoin for daily needs, the Confirmation of the transaction sometimes arrive late Even up to more than ten minutes. So i hope it will fix and we can get faster confirmation.

Fixing happens when something is broken, and exactly that isn't the case. Confirmation times are indeed not suited for using Bitcoin to buy groceries for example, but the high fees also make it less interesting for people. But that's something that is related to the pools and not the developers themselves. In the coming years we'll see the fees increase even further as it will be a more important source of income for pools due to block halvings.

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In my point of view, this is a problem which the developer of bitcoin should fix. When we want to use bitcoin for daily needs, the Confirmation of the transaction sometimes arrive late Even up to more than ten minutes. So i hope it will fix and we can get faster confirmation.

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Quote from: BitcoinPanther on January 17, 2017, 05:24:50 PM

Quote from: deisik on January 17, 2017, 03:22:27 PM

Quote from: ranochigo on January 17, 2017, 09:38:07 AM

Quote from: sir.humus on January 17, 2017, 05:24:31 AM

But does zero confirmation system can overcome double spending?
You'll say it's not worth to do it for a cup of coffee, but what if I order coffee for all the office?
20-30 cups of coffee for 1-2$ of fee is almost for free.

Once you actually succeed to double spend a merchant that doesn't need a confirmation, do tell us the story.

It can't be achieved with a certain degree of difficulty. You need to 1st convince the merchant to accept your 0 conf payment, convince a miner to help you mine a replacement transaction. The first is easy, making a replacement transaction without the participation of a miner with a significant amount of hashrate is hard.

Great idea for the coffee part. But merchants will require you to wait for a confirmation. Oh come on, how much time do they need to make 20-30 cups of coffee in the first place?

Necessity is the mother of invention

You would only need to give the bartender a fiat collateral for the amount of coffee you are going to buy (you can leave your gold wristwatch or iPhone), then pay with bitcoins. And while your whole office sits at a coffee break and enjoys your smartness and wisdom, your transaction gets successfully confirmed. Later you return and take back the fiat (or whatever you left). If the transaction doesn't get confirmed eventually, congrats, you have just paid with fiat for the coffee (all the better for your bitcoins). As simple as it gets

But groceries and supermarket is different story, so a different kind of approach is needed on this issue, even waiting for the confirmation will make it more difficult to the customer. 15 minutes is too long to wait after scanning all the goods you made. Unless bitcoin confirmation takes 1 to 2 minutes, it is not wise to pay with bitcoin directly in this cases.

As long as the customer pays the recommended fee, they should accep the tx even with 0 confirmations if you ask me. Since it takes 72 hours for the tx to get rejected, and if you send it with recommended fee there is a really slight chance that it wouls not get confirmed within that time frame.

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Quote from: TastyChillySauce00 on January 17, 2017, 04:07:04 AM

Quote from: ReLieD on January 17, 2017, 04:00:10 AM

It is just as other modes or ways of payment.
Bitcoin transactions are fast when it comes to paying/using it in Starbucks etc.
It takes exactly the same time as credit / debit cards take.
So it wouldnt matter.

Probably the payment gateway which Starbucks and etc were using are enabling some sort of zero confirmation, therefore, you don't need to wait for some confirmation and your transaction just considered done after you're sending the exact amount to the address they were mentioned. Otherwise, it's not so fast if those merchants were requiring few confirmations

Is there something like a zero transaction confirmation? If there was, It'll be more better. You see, That's one of the downsides of bitcoin. Waiting at a store for extra 20- 30 minutes (sometimes, It's less) because You used bitcoin as a payment method

BitcoinPanther

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Quote from: deisik on January 17, 2017, 03:22:27 PM

Quote from: ranochigo on January 17, 2017, 09:38:07 AM

Quote from: sir.humus on January 17, 2017, 05:24:31 AM

But does zero confirmation system can overcome double spending?
You'll say it's not worth to do it for a cup of coffee, but what if I order coffee for all the office?
20-30 cups of coffee for 1-2$ of fee is almost for free.

Once you actually succeed to double spend a merchant that doesn't need a confirmation, do tell us the story.

It can't be achieved with a certain degree of difficulty. You need to 1st convince the merchant to accept your 0 conf payment, convince a miner to help you mine a replacement transaction. The first is easy, making a replacement transaction without the participation of a miner with a significant amount of hashrate is hard.

Great idea for the coffee part. But merchants will require you to wait for a confirmation. Oh come on, how much time do they need to make 20-30 cups of coffee in the first place?

Necessity is the mother of invention

You would only need to give the bartender a fiat collateral for the amount of coffee you are going to buy (you can leave your gold wristwatch or iPhone), then pay with bitcoins. And while your whole office sits at a coffee break and enjoys your smartness and wisdom, your transaction gets successfully confirmed. Later you return and take back the fiat (or whatever you left). If the transaction doesn't get confirmed eventually, congrats, you have just paid with fiat for the coffee (all the better for your bitcoins). As simple as it gets

But groceries and supermarket is different story, so a different kind of approach is needed on this issue, even waiting for the confirmation will make it more difficult to the customer. 15 minutes is too long to wait after scanning all the goods you made. Unless bitcoin confirmation takes 1 to 2 minutes, it is not wise to pay with bitcoin directly in this cases.

onnz423

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Atleast here on finland there is few restaurants, bars and coffee places where you can pay with bitcoin. Also few food stores, but i would not recommend them since the workers did not really know how to use bitcoin, and they had to call their boss etc. So it was fairly frustrating to wait at the cashier.

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Quote from: SONG GEET on January 16, 2017, 10:09:49 PM

Actually the confirmation time doesnt make it difficult for bitcoin to be used in daily life. If enough fee is included transaction will be confirmed within 15 minute and there is also tools that can analyze transactions and merchants can use it to accept payments which dont have possibility of double spend.

This will depend on the merchant, since many of them certainly will not accept zero confirmation. I think that in order for things to flow better, some solutions need to be created. Probably some of the existing solutions can already bring significant improvements, such as lightning network, for example.

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in fact, by entering an appropriate fee value, payments can be approved more quickly. we can also pay with bitcoin if we don't need to stay immediately after pay an account. for example, i ate dinner at a luxurious restaurant and paid with bitcoin. i can have coffee in the restaurant until payment is confirmed

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You can get priority confirmation if you pay more transaction costs but I do not know if it going on as you say whether the store is willing to wait until the transaction get confirmation or they have other policies.

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Quote from: ranochigo on January 17, 2017, 09:38:07 AM

Quote from: sir.humus on January 17, 2017, 05:24:31 AM

But does zero confirmation system can overcome double spending?
You'll say it's not worth to do it for a cup of coffee, but what if I order coffee for all the office?
20-30 cups of coffee for 1-2$ of fee is almost for free.

Once you actually succeed to double spend a merchant that doesn't need a confirmation, do tell us the story.

It can't be achieved with a certain degree of difficulty. You need to 1st convince the merchant to accept your 0 conf payment, convince a miner to help you mine a replacement transaction. The first is easy, making a replacement transaction without the participation of a miner with a significant amount of hashrate is hard.

Great idea for the coffee part. But merchants will require you to wait for a confirmation. Oh come on, how much time do they need to make 20-30 cups of coffee in the first place?

Necessity is the mother of invention

You would only need to give the bartender a fiat collateral for the amount of coffee you are going to buy (you can leave your gold wristwatch or iPhone), then pay with bitcoins. And while your whole office sits at a coffee break and enjoys your smartness and wisdom, your transaction gets successfully confirmed. Later you return and take back the fiat (or whatever you left). If the transaction doesn't get confirmed eventually, congrats, you have just paid with fiat for the coffee (all the better for your bitcoins). As simple as it gets

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Quote from: Michel de Montaigne on January 16, 2017, 04:56:32 AM

Hi friends,

As far as I know, bitcoin payments take a little time to approve. Will these approval times make it difficult to use bitcoin in our daily lives?
For example, I would get a coffee from Starbucks. Do I have to wait for approval to pay for what I have done for hours?

As far as I know I have read a thread here that states that starbucks are accepting bitcoin as a payment of course through the use of a third party, You're not gonna use your bitcoin directly tho but its is still a good thing . You might wanna search it here .

If we're talking about other local shops then yes it will be quite inconvenient if the transcation time will be longer than usual however you can make it fast by paying a high miner fee. Almost wallets has a feature to adjust the miners fee . Or some hops might accept it as long as there is a one confirmation .

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Using bitcoin in real life won't be a problem... Confirmations too won't be a problem if everyone would just accept the payment immediately when they see that it is already in the blockchain and just unconfirmed...

Or, if they are not comfortable with it, then they should implement that payment system that was used in buying digital goods which was said few posts above me, and just educate their personnel about how bitcoin works...

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Quote from: sir.humus on January 17, 2017, 05:24:31 AM

But does zero confirmation system can overcome double spending?
You'll say it's not worth to do it for a cup of coffee, but what if I order coffee for all the office?
20-30 cups of coffee for 1-2$ of fee is almost for free.

Once you actually succeed to double spend a merchant that doesn't need a confirmation, do tell us the story.

It can't be achieved with a certain degree of difficulty. You need to 1st convince the merchant to accept your 0 conf payment, convince a miner to help you mine a replacement transaction. The first is easy, making a replacement transaction without the participation of a miner with a significant amount of hashrate is hard.

Great idea for the coffee part. But merchants will require you to wait for a confirmation. Oh come on, how much time do they need to make 20-30 cups of coffee in the first place?

Topic: Daily use of bitcoin? - page 41. (Read 42465 times)