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Topic: Debunking the "Bitcoin is an environmental disaster" argument. - page 5. (Read 5220 times)

member
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Texas has been under warnings of rolling blackouts most of the year,
which coincides with China kicking the miners out last year.

https://www.theverge.com/2022/7/14/23206795/bitcoin-crypto-mining-electricity-texas-grid-energy-bills-emissions
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Higher electricity bills and even more carbon dioxide emissions could be on the way for Texans, despite crypto mining industry claims that it can spur the growth of affordable renewable energy.
The problem is the Bitcoin network’s enormous demand for electricity, which is spiking faster than the grid can reasonably keep up with.

Texas’ energy system is already bracing for the Bitcoin mining industry to keep growing at breakneck speed. The amount of electrical load crypto miners are expected to add to the Texas grid over just the next four years represents nearly a third of the grid’s current maximum capacity. Crypto mining is set to increase demand on the grid by a whopping 27 gigawatts by 2026


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Let’s break down why 27 gigawatts is such a big deal.
The first thing to know is that a single megawatt (MW) can power about 200 homes during times of high demand in Texas.
A gigawatt is one thousand megawatts.

On July 12th, during the heatwave, the state hit a record.
More than 78 gigawatts of electricity were needed to meet peak demand, according to ERCOT.
The power grid in Texas can currently supply a maximum of about 92 gigawatts of electricity — and that’s only if every source of power generation is working perfectly, which usually isn’t the case.
That leaves limited breathing room for most of the state during periods of high demand.

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All of that brings us back to the crypto boom in Texas.
 “There are over 27 gigawatts of crypto load that is working on interconnecting over the next four years,” the unnamed ERCOT spokesperson said.

That’s an “astronomically impossible” load to add to the grid in that short timeframe,
according to Joshua Rhodes, a research associate at the University of Texas at Austin.
“There’s no way we could do 27 gigawatts of crypto [in four years]
... that would put too much stress on the system too fast
,” says Rhodes.
“We barely have the power plants to cover today,

Quote
For instance, in upstate New York — another major crypto mining hub — electricity bills have increased by about $8 monthly for individual customers and $12 monthly for small businesses, according to an analysis last year by researchers at the University of California, Berkeley and the University of Chicago.

“Large amounts of new demand are never helpful for your electricity bill,” says ​​Eric Hittinger, an associate professor at Rochester Institute of Technology with a background in electricity system policy.
“The more crypto mining that comes into the state, the higher the residents should expect the electricity prices to become.”

Realize when the miners say the entire world generates this much energy,
that the locations these miners set up in , are only a small fraction of that total ,
which is why they overload their grids and cause their own banning.

What would be funny, if every utility regulated btc miners down to .15% of their actual total energy generation, then they would not threaten the grids.

BTC miner hash rate efficiently has grown every year since 2010, and the total energy consumed has never gone down.
The only way to make Proof of Waste energy efficient is to turn it off.  
 Cool
legendary
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Fully fledged Merit Cycler - Golden Feather 22-23
The Bitcoin Mining Council Released their 22Q2 Mining Data.




They updated their data on the global Bitcoin Mining Consumption:


And the energy Mix supporting the network:




Click here for the Press release


Video of the Bitcoin Mining Council 22Q1 Briefing:


Quote
The Bitcoin Mining Council is a voluntary and open forum of Bitcoin miners committed to the network and its core principles. We promote transparency, share best practices, and educate the public on the benefits of Bitcoin and Bitcoin mining.

Presenters -
Michael Saylor: @saylor // hope.com
Taras Kulyk: @tmskulyk // @PowerValidus
Jason Les: @JasonLes_ // @RiotBlockchain
Peter Wall: @PeterGWall // @ArgoBlockchain
Fred Thiel: @fgthiel // @MarathonDH
Aydin Kilic: linkedin.com/in/aydinkilic/ // @HiveBlockchain
Ben Gagnon: @hashoveride // @Bitfarms_io

To see the slides from the presentation, visit the BMC website—https://bitcoinminingcouncil.com/—or follow @saylor on Twitter.

0:00 - Introduction: Michael Saylor
4:06 - Data Aggregation/Explanation: Taras Kulyk
5:22 - Full BMC Q2 2022 Results: Micahel Saylor
18:03 - Power Situation in Texas: Peter Wall & Jason Les
29:23 - The Effects of Bitcoin Price and Network Efficiency: Fred Thiel
36:09 - Variance of Energy Economics in Bitcoin Mining: Aydin Kilic
46:00 - Analyzing and Debunking the FUD: Ben Gagnon
57:45 - Q & A


full member
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there are so many people who say that bitcoin is a disaster for the environment when in fact that is not true at all even though it has a very large impact received by bitcoin where by saying that bitcoin is a disaster for the environment it indirectly makes the price of bitcoin not so stable on the stock market by the existence of these discourses.even though there is no energy generated that can cause pollution so that there is pollution to the environment and we have seen that in the last few years

I think, those people said bitcoin is a disaster in their environment are people which bitcoin is not fully legalized in their countries. Many countries that adopted bitcoin some years ago are really doing well in terms of economy and others things in the countries. During the pandemic that took over some years in the world economy, made many countries to believed that bitcoin is not a disaster than to help every countries to eliminate errors from their transaction and to reduce unemployment from their environment, so that their citizens will be part of the wonders bitcoin is doing in the world economy.
legendary
Activity: 3430
Merit: 3080
The hashrate is going to grow 10% from month to month if the current epoch keeps going like this, are they telling me that suddenly they've just installed 600MW of wind turbines just now? I understand some of the things, I understand that you can play with numbers for your own interest but right now they are just bullshiting.

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Bitcoin Mining Is Technology Intensive, 58x+ In Efficiency In 8 Years

First, the S19XP was announced in 2021, and the first batch just got delivered early this month, now if we add the fact that the S9 was launched and sold in 2016, we have an increase of 5x in 6 Years. Both numbers are current, but doesn't it scream manipulation?
Also, I love their comparison with other industries, construction, gold, and freight, but something is missing from there, the obvious one, but we can't use that anymore because it won't look as nice as it did 4 years ago.  Wink

right, this is the gift that keeps on giving for the policymakers


it's essentially impossible to balance the interaction of ALL externalities from industry with the natural world. And so it's nothing but a stick to beat the serfdom with in perpetuity.

meanwhile, if you are one of the aforesaid serfs, and would like other natural things as a part of your life:

  • trees in your locale or 'property'
  • clean water on your 'property'
  • grow or eat unprocessed food
  • rearing children without constant pressure to subject them to endless unnatural influences or substances

...you're somehow the worst person in the whole world. Better keep buying all those 'green' energy and products, made with vast (and increasing) amounts of plastics, metals and other mining products that ravage microhabitats and poison the air, ground and water, right?


I somehow don't believe the oil/mining billionaires and European Royal families that push the climate panic are ok with changing into Amish people living in trees to stop the world setting on fire, call me cynical if you will
legendary
Activity: 2912
Merit: 6403
Blackjack.fun
I admit I have read it diagonally.
But it is always a good resource to dismiss Bitcoin as a polluting technology, when instead is actively pushing for a more efficient use of clean energy.

You can read it in the reflection of a mirror with your eyes closed it won't make a difference  Grin
So they tossed some numbers there and claimed that now instead of 51% they have 57%.
And we have to trust those numbers because, well, they say so!

Don't you agree it could have been done far easier and without anyone complaining by just filling a small table?
Argo  x Ph/s , x MW datacenter, x coming from hydro z from gas
Bitfarms  x Ph/s , x MW datacenter, x coming from coal z from solar

Why don't they do it? Because they are in the same boat with every industry out there, I'm only seeing industries claiming to be green, eco-friendly, using only renewables, damn, I actually want to see a company with an ad saying we only burn coal! I would definitely buy their products even if they only make frog leashes or raccoon-scented shower gel.

The hashrate is going to grow 10% from month to month if the current epoch keeps going like this, are they telling me that suddenly they've just installed 600MW of wind turbines just now? I understand some of the things, I understand that you can play with numbers for your own interest but right now they are just bullshiting.

Quote
Bitcoin Mining Is Technology Intensive, 58x+ In Efficiency In 8 Years

Nice, but how about we look at it from a different point of view.
First, the S19XP was announced in 2021, and the first batch just got delivered early this month, now if we add the fact that the S9 was launched and sold in 2016, we have an increase of 5x in 6 Years. Both numbers are current, but doesn't it scream manipulation?
Also, I love their comparison with other industries, construction, gold, and freight, but something is missing from there, the obvious one, but we can't use that anymore because it won't look as nice as it did 4 years ago.  Wink

Just build two nuclear power plants and let's be done with this.
Of course, when it comes to money-making the big names in crypto have found 700 millions for a stadium name, 160 million for some virtual land, 1.3 million for the jpg of a rock, but no way we're going to invest in something that is actually useful.
sr. member
Activity: 980
Merit: 255
HALA MADRID
there are so many people who say that bitcoin is a disaster for the environment when in fact that is not true at all even though it has a very large impact received by bitcoin where by saying that bitcoin is a disaster for the environment it indirectly makes the price of bitcoin not so stable on the stock market by the existence of these discourses.even though there is no energy generated that can cause pollution so that there is pollution to the environment and we have seen that in the last few years
hero member
Activity: 952
Merit: 555
But it is always a good resource to dismiss Bitcoin as a polluting technology, when instead is actively pushing for a more efficient use of clean energy.


If i may ask who are this Bitcoin Mining Council? what is their identity, are they centralized or decentralized? because BMC have been making some certain claim about bitcoin mining and the energy involved as of recent and this has spike high lot of controversial views about the approach they are bringing up, and i see no reason why much attention should be given on them if what they talk about is the environmental impact of bitcoin mining activities and i see they may constitute to anti bitcoin menace.
legendary
Activity: 3430
Merit: 3080
didn't read the thread, but in case anyone didn't say this already...


....isn't the actual climate chang-ists argument that:

all energy use is bad, and so it must all be monitored, and adjudicated? (essentially, politicizing it, as there is no objective way to determine which uses are deserving)


and cynical old me, I would guess that we're also supposed to sit around in freezing cold/scorching hot apartments, in Metaverse, where we fight back the tears experiencing what we imagine even a normal life would be by 2010's standards. Then when some high level toady in the hierarchy gets ratted out by rivals for.. i dunno, smoking a cigarette, we're also supposed to be shocked and disappointed, then we have to diligently do some extra pedaling on our humanoid hamster wheels to pay for the carbon credits needed to annul 1 cigarette of CO2?

if Black Mirror producers are reading, then, yes, I am available for creative development roles Grin
full member
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For some reason, it seems to me that those who simply cannot realize themselves in this industry think so. So, you shouldn't do anything about it at all.
on the other hand we have a positive attitude even though we cannot change most of them but at least we have tried to do rather than do nothing....
even though we know this is a waste without super power interfering to change it, namely the government while we may only be talking
legendary
Activity: 2044
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Not your keys, not your coins!
I admit I have read it diagonally.
But it is always a good resource to dismiss Bitcoin as a polluting technology, when instead is actively pushing for a more efficient use of clean energy.
Bitcoin mining industry contributes to carbon emission and global warming but it is unfair and untrue to say that it is one of most polluting and environmental harmful industries.

I think in furture, in order to get better energy consumption cost as well as to adapt to stricter governmental regulations, Bitcoin mining farms will switch to more renewable resources. It will make the industry becoming more environmental friendly, less polluting.

Currently it is not a biggest industry and does not consume bigger energy. In addition, their proportion if renewable energy resources is better than many nations and industries.
legendary
Activity: 2268
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Fully fledged Merit Cycler - Golden Feather 22-23
Bitcoin Mining Council has released their latest presentation:



I admit I have read it diagonally.
But it is always a good resource to dismiss Bitcoin as a polluting technology, when instead is actively pushing for a more efficient use of clean energy.



jr. member
Activity: 140
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For some reason, it seems to me that those who simply cannot realize themselves in this industry think so. So, you shouldn't do anything about it at all.
legendary
Activity: 2590
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Leading Crypto Sports Betting & Casino Platform
Sometimes the sentence that Bitcoin is an environmental disaster, is something that alarms and attracts attention, but come on, we cannot forget that the environmental disaster has been taking place throughout the history of humanity, bombs, nuclear disasters, malpractice in many things it is something that we cannot forget, since 2009 when all this so beautiful of the BTC era began, some began with the problems, now that the clean energy, that the dirty energy, please, the BTC, Miners do not have the blame for the world disaster that has been left in our hands, what we have inherited is a number of environmental problems thanks to government decisions, and in fact for me the whole problem comes from there of geo-political problems and senseless wars, but for BTC or for the miners, please... it's like something almost unacceptable, it's like saying that the biggest crimes in the world are now more thanks to btc.
legendary
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CLEAN non GPL infringing code made in Rust lang
If they truly care about the environment as they claim they do, then we need to start from top of the list, because PoW is the least thing that consumes energy.
Exactly. It's clear that they're not banning it due to humanism or for the sake of the climate change, because they should have also behaved similarly to a gazillion other things. Their intention is to have more control over the people; the environmental disaster argument is just an alibi.


Government have tried to ban crypto currencies but every-time they have failed to do so. Now they have come up with a new excuse that bitcoin is polluting the environment because bitcoin is based on proof of work which consumes a lot of energy for generating bitcoins.

This narrative is going to fail to as this is totally a lame excuse. The factories and industries produces much more waste and consume much more energy as compare to this bitcoin.

There is a private entity behind this recent FUD campaign, that guy from Ripple tossing 5 million USD which "magically" purchased the likes of Greenpeace, Wikimedia and Mozilla into their lies campaign... Of course they have interests to bad mouth the only competitor they can't buy out of the market... But what else could you expect from people heavily associated with banksters?

Of course Bitcoin will carry on, there is nothing those over-funded losers can do to stop it. But their actions are hostile to this community. If someone doesn't talk about Bitcoin but goes with words like "blockchain" or "crypto", you know what side they are in, and probably under who's wallet...
legendary
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Blackjack.fun
Quote
Taking the dedicated mining stage at Bitcoin 2022, Blockstream CEO Adam Back announced that his company, in partnership with Jack Dorsey’s Block, Inc., will be leveraging Tesla energy equipment for a $12 million bitcoin mining facility.

“The Tesla Solar PV array and Tesla Megapack will power Blockstream and Block’s open-source, solar and battery-powered Bitcoin mining facility,” according to a slide shared by Back during the presentation. “[The facility is] projected [to produce] 3.8 MW solar renewable power, 30 PH/s hashrate.”


Using solar arrays to power a Mining farm looks like an absolute novelty and maybe an overkill, something more like a marketing stunt than a real, economic oriented project.
Time will tell.

Of course it's a marketing stunt, if they would be going full solar and batteries they would be bankrupt the next day without government subsidies. Just look at the numbers, 3.8 MW and 30PH/s and a 12 megawatt-hours (MWh) Tesla Megapack.
That's enough storage capacity to power 150 S19 for 24hours and a hashrate equivalent of 300 S19.

Meanwhile:
https://blog.blockstream.com/en-blockstream-purchase-25m-usd-of-bitcoin-mining-hardware-from-microbt/
They've bought 2000 if not (3000 with a discount) miners at least in one single batch and are having a capacity of 300MW in total, now they have 1% ..solar!  Grin

This is just like those companies claiming to be carbon neutral because they've donated enough money for 100 000 trees.

I can't wait to see how Mara will spin around the story since they claim they will magically close their coal power plants and how in the name of god when they were signing those things for the Bitcoin Mining council they've forgotten 10% of the hash rate int he US at that time was coming from their own dirty but damn cheap coal.

The whole green stuff should be put on pause right now, especially since everyone with a brain can see what's happening in Europe when you don't have enough fossil fuel and you're simply too stupid to allow nuclear energy. But no, let's let the madness continue till we're all going to have 30 minutes of light a day from on our bio-hamsters generators. Of course, feeding them will be quite the task since we're going to have to cut grass without hurting the grass also and only with a study on the number of insects and their species per square cm affected by this.
sr. member
Activity: 2030
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If they truly care about the environment as they claim they do, then we need to start from top of the list, because PoW is the least thing that consumes energy.
Exactly. It's clear that they're not banning it due to humanism or for the sake of the climate change, because they should have also behaved similarly to a gazillion other things. Their intention is to have more control over the people; the environmental disaster argument is just an alibi.


Government have tried to ban crypto currencies but everytime they have failed to do so. Now they have come up with a new excuse that bitcoin is polluting the enviroment because bitcoin is based on proof of work which consumes a lot of energy for generating bitcoins.

This narrative is going to fail to as this is totally a lame excuse. The factories and industries produces much more waste and consume much more energy as compare to this bitcoin.
legendary
Activity: 2268
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Fully fledged Merit Cycler - Golden Feather 22-23

Currently much research has been ongoing on the effective use of renewable energy source for mining and secondly in the case of another solution coming from Exxon Mobil which plan to use waste energy from petroleum resources for use in bitcoin mining is another development that bitcoin has come to solve part of the created problems on energy waste and it hazards on the environment.

The announcement during the Bitcoin Conference of the agreement between Blocks, Blockstream and Tesla, I think, goes in this direction:

BLOCKSTREAM, BLOCK TO LEVERAGE TESLA EQUIPMENT FOR RENEWABLE BITCOIN MINING OPERATION


Quote
Taking the dedicated mining stage at Bitcoin 2022, Blockstream CEO Adam Back announced that his company, in partnership with Jack Dorsey’s Block, Inc., will be leveraging Tesla energy equipment for a $12 million bitcoin mining facility.

“The Tesla Solar PV array and Tesla Megapack will power Blockstream and Block’s open-source, solar and battery-powered Bitcoin mining facility,” according to a slide shared by Back during the presentation. “[The facility is] projected [to produce] 3.8 MW solar renewable power, 30 PH/s hashrate.”



Using solar arrays to power a Mining farm looks like an absolute novelty and maybe an overkill, something more like a marketing stunt than a real, economic oriented project.
Time will tell.

hero member
Activity: 952
Merit: 555
Well, some of the big companies are also thinking about the future, including in the issue of environmental issues of mining.

The exploration of the natural resources such as gold and petroleum has higher implication to the environment from carbon emission, governments tend to overlook this aspects because they overseas the affairs, lots of conglomerate production companies also impose such environmental threat but yet government see not to that all because they pay tax but bitcoin contribute nothing as compared to what the above mentioned pollute to devastate the environment, yet bitcoin faces more sanction than them all.

My hope for now is that miners should be able to switch to looking for energy at a lower cost by utilizing the environmental resources around them, be it sun, water and air/wind, because of course the sustainability of bitcoin's life is in the hands of the miners, 

Currently much research has been ongoing on the effective use of renewable energy source for mining and secondly in the case of another solution coming from Exxon Mobil which plan to use waste energy from petroleum resources for use in bitcoin mining is another development that bitcoin has come to solve part of the created problems on energy waste and it hazards on the environment.
legendary
Activity: 4410
Merit: 4766
Quote
In this video we’ve summarized Saylor’s 30-minute segment into 3 minutes, aiming to touch on some of the “need to know” data points from this captivating briefing. We invite you to watch the full-length presentation by visiting the Bitcoin Mining Council’s YouTube page, or by clicking this link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPai5uoN2tg&t=0s

ill watch this. and if i hear the words "guesstimate, assumption, average" im going to stop watching

EDIT.
within the first 6 minutes. im already facepalming for very different reasons.. som im going to stop here

seems they want to confuse the numbers by playing pingpong tennis with the words "energy" and "electricity" by pretending their estimate of electricity is not electricity even though their measure is in wattage(electricity).. now they want to call it "energy" even though they are not using energy terminology like joules

they seem to be trying to dig a bigger hole for themselves.
.
here is the thing. they got the 188TWH completely wrong in the first place yast year.
if they meant 'energy' instead of electricity. they would not be using TWH but instead TJH (joules not watts)

they are then trying to stand by their wrong 188TWH guestimate. by then saying 'electricity' is actually more like 66TWH(bit more accurate and acceptable).. but that means they are trying to save face by saying their 188guess is correct(its not) by then suggesting that bitcoin wastes 64.9% of energy in its electricity conversion.

yep 188-66=122TWH wasted = 64.9% wasted

which. when they quote that world energy to electricity conversion is only a waste of 50k out of 150k meaning only 33% wasted .. they are again stupidly saying bitcoins energy to electricity conversion is twice as worse as other industry conversion

..
seriously, they should just get their heads out of their asses and just admit their number last year of 188TWH was diabolically wrong.. (real numbers are more like 40twh-70twh) rather then suggest that their exaggerated number is a 'energy' number and is real, which represents a high waste of energy..

..
yep the 'committee of mining' love to use 'guesstimate, assumption, average' in their math. but then instead of admitting that their guesses were widely wrong. they prefer to say that bitcoin uses/wastes more then it actually does, and that their maths is perfect..

sorry. but that 188TWH number was completely wrong on multiple levels.
even on 5year old outdated inefficient asic tech, the math, if all old gen asics were used in 2021 the network never even got close to 188TWH, let alone on the numbers if the network in 2021 was using 2021 efficient asic's

in short.. they got that 188TWH completely wrong, and they wasted alot of video speaking time trying to justify their very bad guess.. while also trying to make bitcoin look bad subtly by suggesting their math was good and bitcoin wastes more then average in conversion.. (facepalm)
legendary
Activity: 2268
Merit: 16328
Fully fledged Merit Cycler - Golden Feather 22-23
Listening to an interview with Frank E. Holmes, I heard about this HIVE summary of the Bitcoin Mining Council back in October.

I think it is worth posting it here, for those of you who prefer the video format:

HIVE Summarizes Michael Saylor’s Slides from the Bitcoin Mining Council’s Oct. 2021 Presentation

Quote
On October 19, 2021, MicroStrategy CEO Michael Saylor welcomed the crypto community to review the third-quarter 2021 survey results from the Bitcoin Mining Council’s data review.

In this video we’ve summarized Saylor’s 30-minute segment into 3 minutes, aiming to touch on some of the “need to know” data points from this captivating briefing. We invite you to watch the full-length presentation by visiting the Bitcoin Mining Council’s YouTube page, or by clicking this link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPai5uoN2tg&t=0s
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