Topic: Debunking the "Bitcoin is an environmental disaster" argument. - page 8. (Read 5036 times)

And who told you that was spot on, otherwise we wouldn't have had those numbers last year.

That's the beauty of speculation about the hash rate and about the future of mining, there are so many variables you never get the perfect picture about what's really happening, an industry far more elusive than the oil industry for example. I'm 100% sure that there was a lot of gear that was mining at below 2 cents per kWh a year ago and which can't turn profitable at over 10 cents in less than 6 months at current gear prices, this whole pile is standing on the sideline now and waiting, God knows for what.


I've been waiting for that toaster mining for 6 years already...
Stove, oven, no, heating your house or maybe a water heater that can be done, the problem is the chip costs when a water heater cost 200 euros and the miner 10 000  and the other is that you don't need constant heat. Buying a 15k mining oven that will run only 30 minutes a day and make you 100$ a month is .....childish let's say.

I am pretty sure about this, but I bet we also witness a massive increase in "efficiency". I have been told a lot of Chinese miners used older generation miners, relying on very cheap if not free energy. So efficiency wasn't a big issue there. But miners elsewhere have a great concern over operation efficiency, so they relied almost entirely on newer more efficient machines.
So I guess the increase in Electricity consumption will be less than proportional to the increase in the hash.

All the el. radiators and water heaters are producing only heat and wasting electricity and are way more polluting than bitcoin...

Every water heater, radiator, and equipment which have capacity to use the heat for household and industrial needs, could actually mine crypto. We have not IoT and smart houses.. electronic components are keep getting smaller.. c'mon, that's the future and you all know it!

In a few years your stove will mine crypto while you are cooking your meal. ... wait wut...

Screenshot this $hit and you'll see I'm right

J/Th? 
No efficiency, can't be measured by anything else than the secs of the gears used, the best indicator which would show you where the hash rate is going would be the profitability per TH which now might beak 40cents, compared to 10 cents a year ago when the hash rate was nearly the same.


Yeah, it won't be a 10x, and most likely because the gear can't be delivered instantly but in batches,  and with this the last ones that would purchase gear will see a high spike in dif a drop in revenue and an insane amount of days for ROI, I'm fairly certain that if all the poeple mining now would have to go through all this again a lot would quit, but some are mining now after covering their gear cost already, so for them, it's a matter of revenue- electricity cost, unlike new people who would think revenue - electricity costs - purchase costs.

It's clear we're going to see a spike in electricity consumption of the network during the Q1 and Q2 of 2022, a lot of gear will come online, and some comparisons that were done in the past won't be pretty with the updated numbers.

many say bitcoin is not environmentally friendly and blah blah blah....
it's just an excuse for those who want to corner it even to eliminate bitcoin from its development....
As we know, bitcoin is indeed one that uses electricity which has a negative impact on the environment, because the amount of fossil fuel used to generate electricity also gives birth to greenhouse gases and air pollution. environmentally friendly and this is not an excuse because one of the most polluting energy contributors such as cars still cannot be overcome even though many countries switch to electric cars, but; this is also not environmentally friendly imagine if the whole world uses electric cars how much electricity usage is used every day....
therefore don't make it an excuse but make it a homework together to find the best solution without stopping the development of more efficient transaction technology... because bitcoin is not a setback but an advancement

Interesting point, and probably very true.
Anyway I believe there's not other way to measure efficiency as Mh/S J/TH.
Provided that this hash improvement would have been delivered anyway, of course power eficiency will keep the electricity consumption at minimum, even if I would doubt that we will ever haves an unbalanced choice of having 10x increase with same power consumption, while I expect a "mixed approach" (i.e. 5x hash with half power consumption).

I would never say something like that where many people say that bitcoin is a disaster for the environment, we don't see if anyone feels harmed by bitcoin so it is said to be a disaster for the environment, can we say bitcoin causes air pollution so that it pollutes to the surrounding area but that doesn't really happen maybe it's just an issue we can say we want to drop bitcoin indirectly so it's a disaster for the environment

The issue of being environmentally unfriendly to Bitcoin is still very hotly discussed, but when compared to other technologies and innovations there are still worse impacts than Bitcoin itself. In fact, if green energy, which is currently a trend to solve energy problems around the world, could be reached at a low investment price, then maybe this would not be discussed anymore. The construction of solar-powered, waste-based, and other green energy power plants is still very expensive so that in every country still using coal which is cheaper.

Increasing efficiency per chip won't lead to reduce power consumption, I don't understand why some poeple who are heavily invested in mining keep saying this.
Bitcoin mining is not like car building, you reduce the energy spent on building one by improvements and that's it, you don't build twice as many cause it's half as expensive,  with the more efficient gear you burn 5$ to get 10$ instead of 7 for 10, it's normal with higher efficiency you will just add more miners as it becomes more productive.
If bitmain would release some 2nm gear doing 10x more hash power W the consumption will stay the same, it will be just that the hash rate will grow 10x.
The only thing keeping consumption down is the price, which:

That aside, yeah immersion cooling rules, especially when you're forced to set up mining in a not so cold climate, wish I could do the same since the noise from gear becomes unbearable for more than a quarter-hour but the cost is a bit prohibitive for small miners, 300E a gallon is a bit steep.
But when you're RIOT and you stand on a pile of millions thrown at you by investors it's a different story.


A company that hasn't been able to complete one full project in 10 years now talks about plasma gasification on 10 000 landfills, another company that wants a iggy ride on the crypto wave. Plasma gasification is not always a net producing energy unlike traditional biomass methane capture, and on top of that is expensive as fuck, that's why everyone is abandoning those projects..
Keep it simple and nuclear.

Bill Smith, the founder of XcelPlus International Inc, suggests using the energy obtained from recycling landfills for bitcoin mining, according to him, landfills are what we have in sufficient quantity, so there are 10,000 landfills in the US. The only thing we have no shortage of is garbage, there are more than 400 closed landfills in Texas alone, so we look at them as overturned oil wells.
https://melmagazine.com/en-us/story/bitcoin-mining-green-energy

Following China ban, bitcoin Mining rapidly moved toward more sustainable ways of generating his power:



The bitcoin Mining Council notes that:


In the Original documents, Thera are a lot off very informative slides.

Have a look here:
GLOBAL BITCOIN MINING DATA REVIEW Q3 2021

One I like the most is this one:




Bitcoin mining provides a free, uncensorable, unconfiscatable, peer-to-peer, worldwide, borderless wealth transferring network for the consumption less than...[drumroll]... Holiday Lights.

This is an interesting post since it started just before the actual China ban in 2021. At first in September the btc price dropped,
but then went higher than before. Can anyone speculate as to why and how that is? Did other miners just start mining more?

It is possible to come up with elegant solutions to mine cryptocoin.
A simple field of solar and wind power, connected to buildings with mining equipment. It could be organized as farms; a field associated with a smaller building,
and various groups of farms, each connected to also share power as needed. Very modern very eco friendly, cryptocurrency is unique in that manner, it's all digital,
such that generally hands off nature methods are possible with it, so it is definitely the future, but the powers that be want to have control over it.

Have you ever seen a submerged Miner?


https://twitter.com/originalcolabtc/status/1451738901358448640?s=21

This is what I was talking about on the previous post.

Emission reduction can be attained either trough lowering mining dependence from fossil fuels, or from increasing mining equipment effciency.

RIOT made some improvement in this second direction:


RIOT BLOCKCHAIN ANNOUNCES 200MW IMMERSION-COOLED BITCOIN MINING OPERATION

The article states::


So it is the twist: RIOT can chose between either emitting 20% less Co2 in the athmosphere, or they can improve by 20% their hashing power without increasing their CO2 allowance.

As you can see most miners can choose to invest in renewable energy like solar or wind but they have chosen the path of using fossil fuels, but if the energy industry does not change the way of surname. are receiving their energy source, the cycle will continue. The only environmental disaster here is that we are still using fossil fuels. Yes, I am a big bitcoin lover but I personally do not accept the big impact on life and environment. Because the environment is where we all depend on it and develop where my family is, the current environmental pollution is very urgent, personally I do not support the exploitation of the environment. Bitcoin mining with such environmentally polluting energy sources.

An improbable Bitcoin Sponsor surfaced today: Ted Cruz.


https://twitter.com/nic__carter/status/1447264180260818954?s=21


Nic Carter commented:



Basically Ted Cruz reiterated the ideas in this presentation:



https://niccarter.info/wp-content/uploads/txsummit_nc_oct08.pdf

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[OT]

I like Tyrol.
When BTC will go over my "fuck you price" ^{It has to go up a lot} is am seriously thinking about settling there, opening a shop crafting custom-designed
wooden Japanese jointed mining rigs.

Of course, at the moment I can barely hammer a nail into two wood tables to join them together.

Not going to happen!
You underestimate the eco movements, they will not agree on anything, for them even signs "Do not step on the grass" are bad.

https://wilderness-society.org/romania-destroys-last-free-flowing-river-in-carpathians/
https://kafkadesk.org/2019/12/14/hydropower-plants-in-central-europe-a-threat-to-biodiversity-warns-wwf/
https://www.wwf.mg/?1436391/As-Investors-Look-to-Dam-the-Pliva-River-Citizens-Rally-Against-Them

What you posted is the equivalent of genocide for them, this one got 20 000 opposing signatures



it doesn't matter that is a run of the river concept, it doesn't matter that it's a micro plant that diverts only a part of the water and still lets the river flow in its original place, it somehow miraculously "affects' the environment. Plus, it has concrete and steel so it's bad!

A week ago I ordered 20 silicon straws since plastic ones are banned and those made out of paper are pure garbage, they've come in a plastic box with a lot of bubble-wrap and duct tape enough for 1000 plastic straws, and all this packaging ...went into the garbage, but, I'm saving the Earth!!!!

Fully agree with your rant.

Anyway, do not think of Hydroelectric power plants as big dams with huge pipes and turbines. Think more a free flows plants like this one:


https://www.energy.gov/eere/water/types-hydropower-plants

Nowadays big dams are actually as difficult to build as nuclear plants!

I recently watched a documentary on renewable energy, and was fascinated by the story of a small island called El Hierro (Canary Islands) that became completely energy independent, using a hybrid system that combines wind and a pumped-storage power plant. The man who is responsible for the whole project says that it took 30 years from idea to realization, but he really made something that could be applied to a very large number of islands in the world.

I think human genius has no limits, because how else to call the example of El Salvador volcanic energy or a project on the island of El Hierro.

https://www.mdpi.com/1996-1073/11/10/2812/htm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgF0hV9LTy8