Well, Bitcoins.lc has NO fee. So there is a good option.
But, when about 10% of people move from deepbit to another 0% fee pool, then it will fix current situation, won't it?
Topic: Deepbit Approaching 50% Once Again - page 3. (Read 19126 times)
But, when about 10% of people move from deepbit to another 0% fee pool, then it will fix current situation, won't it?
There is a very specific security threat when a single entity controls 50% of the networks hashing power.
50% isn't actually a hard limit. It is possible to do the same attack with 40% or even less, it will just succeed less often.Ok, so the risk is still there, and needs to be addressed. No firm limit, check. Either group action or voluntary responsibility will work. Ok.
So who's it gonna be? the miners? tycho? Or the (some) miners setting up tycho for the chain?
All it takes is pop-a-box. Or corruption...
But we don't have any of that lolololololol
There is a very specific security threat when a single entity controls 50% of the networks hashing power.
50% isn't actually a hard limit. It is possible to do the same attack with 40% or even less, it will just succeed less often. if deepbit tries to do anything shady, its hashing power will get close to zero real fast, and that will be the end for it.
This is not the problem: http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=12120.msg170365#msg170365
When the damage is done - it is done. BTC will rapidly lose value and I doubt they'll ever recover again. Because that would break one of the major advantages: security
Better than blocking new registration is to INCREASE THE FEE according to the pool relative rate.
Something like:
40% - 3% fee.
45% - 5% fee.
48% - 8% fee
etc.
It could kind of auto-regulate into slightly above 40%.
Good for Tycho, good for all of us.
it wont solve the problem it will just give the incentive to run a pool whit lower free and get a awesome income Something like:
40% - 3% fee.
45% - 5% fee.
48% - 8% fee
etc.
It could kind of auto-regulate into slightly above 40%.
Good for Tycho, good for all of us.
Sorry, I do not get it. Please, explain. Who will run a pool with lower fee?
Well, Bitcoins.lc has NO fee. So there is a good option.
if deepbit tries to do anything shady, its hashing power will get close to zero real fast, and that will be the end for it.
people telling deepbit to limit new registrations, would you cut yourself short in place of deepbit?
people telling deepbit to limit new registrations, would you cut yourself short in place of deepbit?
The size of "Other" shrunk pretty significantly. 3 days ago it was some 35%.
That was because Deepbit was DDOS'd down for a while; people went solo.Also, huge influx of new miners that probably didn't know about pooled mining.
Better than blocking new registration is to INCREASE THE FEE according to the pool relative rate.
Something like:
40% - 3% fee.
45% - 5% fee.
48% - 8% fee
etc.
It could kind of auto-regulate into slightly above 40%.
Good for Tycho, good for all of us.
it wont solve the problem it will just give the incentive to run a pool whit lower free and get a awesome income Something like:
40% - 3% fee.
45% - 5% fee.
48% - 8% fee
etc.
It could kind of auto-regulate into slightly above 40%.
Good for Tycho, good for all of us.
Sorry, I do not get it. Please, explain. Who will run a pool with lower fee?
The size of "Other" shrunk pretty significantly. 3 days ago it was some 35%.
I didn't say anything the first time I saw your avatar, only in conjunction with your post. This negates your response.
Quote
Anywho, just look at the graph that's been posted a number of times, bitcoinpool is relatively small. Large pool alternatives -- Slush, btcguild btcmine. All larger than bitcoinpool. I've used slush and am not a fan, I've used btcguild and it's basically a smaller deepbit with idle notification (but no PPS) and a lower (or 0) fee. I can't speak to btcmine, but I've heard good things about it.
The point though isn't just that there are alternatives to deepbit that are just as good as it (which there are), the point is that if you are concerned that your magical money fountain is going to dry up, then mining on deepbit makes as little sense as staying on a pool that requires your miners to restart every night. Maybe less sense.
Yes, there are alternatives. I do not disagree with you on this. As far as making less Bitcoin on deepbit, I apologize for not simply taking your word for it...I am of the school of "prove it". I will stay there a while and see how it goes. If that makes me an idiot in your book, I don't really care. If end up agreeing with you after some times passes, you can say you were right and I will go somewhere else. The point though isn't just that there are alternatives to deepbit that are just as good as it (which there are), the point is that if you are concerned that your magical money fountain is going to dry up, then mining on deepbit makes as little sense as staying on a pool that requires your miners to restart every night. Maybe less sense.
MY entire point was I just don't see the risk of one pool owning 50% of the mining share. The security threats exist regardless. I want a pool that is reliable and gives me good results. So far, this is the only one I have tried that does that. No, I haven't tried them all.
I'm not entirely sure what security threat you're referring to, perhaps this is where our disjunction arises.
There is a very specific security threat when a single entity controls 50% of the networks hashing power. That is the point of this thread and why people are crying foul of people using deepbit. This security concern does not exist otherwise, and it's a major one concerning control of the block chain which bitcoin exists upon. If you are unaware of this, that is why I mentioned that you seem to be lacking knowledge of it. If you were aware of it and simply do not care, well, nothing I can do about that. We've tried to warn people.
I didn't say anything the first time I saw your avatar, only in conjunction with your post. This negates your response.
Quote
Anywho, just look at the graph that's been posted a number of times, bitcoinpool is relatively small. Large pool alternatives -- Slush, btcguild btcmine. All larger than bitcoinpool. I've used slush and am not a fan, I've used btcguild and it's basically a smaller deepbit with idle notification (but no PPS) and a lower (or 0) fee. I can't speak to btcmine, but I've heard good things about it.
The point though isn't just that there are alternatives to deepbit that are just as good as it (which there are), the point is that if you are concerned that your magical money fountain is going to dry up, then mining on deepbit makes as little sense as staying on a pool that requires your miners to restart every night. Maybe less sense.
Yes, there are alternatives. I do not disagree with you on this. As far as making less Bitcoin on deepbit, I apologize for not simply taking your word for it...I am of the school of "prove it". I will stay there a while and see how it goes. If that makes me an idiot in your book, I don't really care. If end up agreeing with you after some times passes, you can say you were right and I will go somewhere else. The point though isn't just that there are alternatives to deepbit that are just as good as it (which there are), the point is that if you are concerned that your magical money fountain is going to dry up, then mining on deepbit makes as little sense as staying on a pool that requires your miners to restart every night. Maybe less sense.
MY entire point was I just don't see the risk of one pool owning 50% of the mining share. The security threats exist regardless. I want a pool that is reliable and gives me good results. So far, this is the only one I have tried that does that. No, I haven't tried them all.
https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Weaknesses#Attacker_has_a_lot_of_computing_power
I didn't say anything the first time I saw your avatar, only in conjunction with your post. This negates your response.
Quote
Anywho, just look at the graph that's been posted a number of times, bitcoinpool is relatively small. Large pool alternatives -- Slush, btcguild btcmine. All larger than bitcoinpool. I've used slush and am not a fan, I've used btcguild and it's basically a smaller deepbit with idle notification (but no PPS) and a lower (or 0) fee. I can't speak to btcmine, but I've heard good things about it.
The point though isn't just that there are alternatives to deepbit that are just as good as it (which there are), the point is that if you are concerned that your magical money fountain is going to dry up, then mining on deepbit makes as little sense as staying on a pool that requires your miners to restart every night. Maybe less sense.
Yes, there are alternatives. I do not disagree with you on this. As far as making less Bitcoin on deepbit, I apologize for not simply taking your word for it...I am of the school of "prove it". I will stay there a while and see how it goes. If that makes me an idiot in your book, I don't really care. If end up agreeing with you after some times passes, you can say you were right and I will go somewhere else. The point though isn't just that there are alternatives to deepbit that are just as good as it (which there are), the point is that if you are concerned that your magical money fountain is going to dry up, then mining on deepbit makes as little sense as staying on a pool that requires your miners to restart every night. Maybe less sense.
MY entire point was I just don't see the risk of one pool owning 50% of the mining share. The security threats exist regardless. I want a pool that is reliable and gives me good results. So far, this is the only one I have tried that does that. No, I haven't tried them all.
Kinda offtopic:
You should try out gbyte.dk if you live close to Denmark. We're a small group of danish people mining together.
You should try out gbyte.dk if you live close to Denmark. We're a small group of danish people mining together.
Better than blocking new registration is to INCREASE THE FEE according to the pool relative rate.
Something like:
40% - 3% fee.
45% - 5% fee.
48% - 8% fee
etc.
It could kind of auto-regulate into slightly above 40%.
Good for Tycho, good for all of us.
Something like:
40% - 3% fee.
45% - 5% fee.
48% - 8% fee
etc.
It could kind of auto-regulate into slightly above 40%.
Good for Tycho, good for all of us.
Im going to agree with the idea that Tycho should close registration. Keep deepbit at 40% of the total, or thereabouts. It wont stop the pool's expansion, since existing people can still expand, but it'll slow the influx of new people. There's a lot of good Tycho does with deepbit, and the mining community in general, but I really dont want to see 1 pool have the majority of the power. Ideally you'd have 3 or 4 pools with about the same share, or 1 with slightly larger. 1 pool with 50% or more is just bad news..
If I wasn't already sure that you knew nothing from your avatar (it could be ironic) the above confirms it. Plenty of pools provide plenty of information/return comparable or superior to deepbit. There is nothing special about the pool except for two things:
Quote
1) Highest hashing rate -- translates into lowest variance (although when there is variance, the low payout makes it very very very unprofitable).
Haven't been there long enough to confirm or deny, ill take your word for it. Ill see how it goes for a while and adjust if necessary.Quote
2) Pay Per Share -- The best option for casual miners. This to my knowledge only exists on deepbit. If you are a serious miner though this is a horrible option (10% off the top).
Payouts, information, all that other stuff is just bunk though, even steven.
People need to see data to feel comfortable. Or at least I do. It helps drive the illusion of "can I trust this pool operator."Payouts, information, all that other stuff is just bunk though, even steven.
I didn't say anything the first time I saw your avatar, only in conjunction with your post. This negates your response.
Anywho, just look at the graph that's been posted a number of times, bitcoinpool is relatively small. Large pool alternatives -- Slush, btcguild btcmine. All larger than bitcoinpool. I've used slush and am not a fan, I've used btcguild and it's basically a smaller deepbit with idle notification (but no PPS) and a lower (or 0) fee. I can't speak to btcmine, but I've heard good things about it.
The point though isn't just that there are alternatives to deepbit that are just as good as it (which there are), the point is that if you are concerned that your magical money fountain is going to dry up, then mining on deepbit makes as little sense as staying on a pool that requires your miners to restart every night. Maybe less sense.
Until slush gets DDOS'd...
Its getting worse!
Jesus fucking christ you morons! MOVE AWAY FROM DEEPBIT!
Jesus fucking christ you morons! MOVE AWAY FROM DEEPBIT!
The "50% of the hashing power" problem is no hard limit. It's an average case calculation. It is very well possible for deepbit to fork the block chain *right now*, and it would not require much luck. If they had 55% of the hashing power, it would require slightly less luck than it would require now.
The good news is that such an attempt would not go unnoticed...
If I wasn't already sure that you knew nothing from your avatar (it could be ironic) the above confirms it. Plenty of pools provide plenty of information/return comparable or superior to deepbit. There is nothing special about the pool except for two things:
Quote
1) Highest hashing rate -- translates into lowest variance (although when there is variance, the low payout makes it very very very unprofitable).
Haven't been there long enough to confirm or deny, ill take your word for it. Ill see how it goes for a while and adjust if necessary.Quote
2) Pay Per Share -- The best option for casual miners. This to my knowledge only exists on deepbit. If you are a serious miner though this is a horrible option (10% off the top).
Payouts, information, all that other stuff is just bunk though, even steven.
People need to see data to feel comfortable. Or at least I do. It helps drive the illusion of "can I trust this pool operator."Payouts, information, all that other stuff is just bunk though, even steven.
Although I've said it before I'll say it again, while I fully support the idea that deepbit getting too many people is a bad thing I will have to interject some things here.
Most miners are not on these forums, and so these warnings will go unheeded because most people just found out about bitcoin from their friend, or some news article that mentioned bitcoin and the largest pool deepbit.
These same people are the ones driving the price of bitcoin through the roof and making it all kinds of profitable. So... we all enjoy enhanced profitability and hate the threat to bitcoins security. But for now one comes with the other. You'll have to get the word out through other channels than this thread though if you want to have any chance of making a difference.
If I wasn't already sure that you knew nothing from your avatar (it could be ironic) the above confirms it. Plenty of pools provide plenty of information/return comparable or superior to deepbit. There is nothing special about the pool except for two things:
1) Highest hashing rate -- translates into lowest variance (although when there is variance, the low payout makes it very very very unprofitable).
2) Pay Per Share -- The best option for casual miners. This to my knowledge only exists on deepbit. If you are a serious miner though this is a horrible option (10% off the top).
Payouts, information, all that other stuff is just bunk though, even steven.
Most miners are not on these forums, and so these warnings will go unheeded because most people just found out about bitcoin from their friend, or some news article that mentioned bitcoin and the largest pool deepbit.
These same people are the ones driving the price of bitcoin through the roof and making it all kinds of profitable. So... we all enjoy enhanced profitability and hate the threat to bitcoins security. But for now one comes with the other. You'll have to get the word out through other channels than this thread though if you want to have any chance of making a difference.
I started with bitcoinpool. I got tired of idle miners.
I played around with some of the other pools, slush, etc. Didn't seem to provide enough info/data for me to know how I was doing.
Went to deepbit. No idling miners (so far), lots of data available to judge progress, etc.
People want minimum drama and results for their efforts. The security threat people are talking about is below 50% anyways, so it just sounds like jealousy to me at the worst, anti-free choice at best.
I played around with some of the other pools, slush, etc. Didn't seem to provide enough info/data for me to know how I was doing.
Went to deepbit. No idling miners (so far), lots of data available to judge progress, etc.
People want minimum drama and results for their efforts. The security threat people are talking about is below 50% anyways, so it just sounds like jealousy to me at the worst, anti-free choice at best.
If I wasn't already sure that you knew nothing from your avatar (it could be ironic) the above confirms it. Plenty of pools provide plenty of information/return comparable or superior to deepbit. There is nothing special about the pool except for two things:
1) Highest hashing rate -- translates into lowest variance (although when there is variance, the low payout makes it very very very unprofitable).
2) Pay Per Share -- The best option for casual miners. This to my knowledge only exists on deepbit. If you are a serious miner though this is a horrible option (10% off the top).
Payouts, information, all that other stuff is just bunk though, even steven.
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