As the saying goes: Do not feed the trolls.
Agreed. Was just trying to give investors a calm mind.
Topic: delete - page 125. (Read 165547 times)
Agreed. Was just trying to give investors a calm mind.
Why is the focus on the anonymity in Monero? Shouldn't the focus be on other things BCX alluded to earlier.
I agree if you could eliminate any chance for time warp attack then any risk from cracked private keys that have already been spent, is thus mitigated.
The anonymity is still important because even if BCX would no longer have the economic motivation to attack if such a TW attack was nullified, the NSA might still want to destroy the anonymity using Sybil amplification. And note they could do so entirely silently.
And if we mitigate the anonymity attack, we also mitigate the alleged ability to crack private keys.
Note afaics the alleged attack can only crack private keys that have been spent. And that is why the Time Warp attack is needed to rewind the block chain to re-spend those to the attacker. Again we have not confirmed nor disproved that already spent private keys can or can not be cracked. I hear some mathematicians are skeptical and they have good reason to be skeptical.
if the attack is real, anonymint is our best hope to avoid disaster
I am not sure that is true. But thanks for the appreciation.
One with an open mind can see what others assume cant be there
James
I own zero xmr too.
I would say this, if what is going on is enough for jl777 to be concerned, that would be enough for me. Be careful guys.
Plus AM. It seems that BTX is not just blowing smoke unfortunately. Right?
I would say this, if what is going on is enough for jl777 to be concerned, that would be enough for me. Be careful guys.
Plus AM. It seems that BTX is not just blowing smoke unfortunately. Right?
This is complex shit that is above most your pay grades.
What happened to the "tread lightly and carry a big stick"?
This is not my altcoin involved herein. I am trying to get the trolls to see that they are irrational. But now I am going to stop this back and forth, as I have made it clear enough and this is wasting time.
Treading lightly shouldn't be altcoin specific or the trolls will follow you to your own "bitcoin killer" coin.
The majority of us are happy you're working to either prove or disprove the vulnerability so less forum talk and more code pretty plix.
As the saying goes: Do not feed the trolls.
if the attack is real, anonymint is our best hope to avoid disaster
I am not sure that is true. But thanks for the appreciation.
This is complex shit that is above most your pay grades.
What happened to the "treat lightly and carry a big stick"?
This is not my altcoin involved herein. I am trying to get the trolls to see that they are irrational. But now I am going to stop this back and forth, as I have made it clear enough and this is wasting time.
This is complex shit that is above most your pay grades.
What happened to the "treat lightly and carry a big stick"?
Are you planning another name change in the near future?
And who is this newbeee TheFascistMind who registreted just few days ago here ..how he newbeee is not a trol and we are??
https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/anonymint-88197
And I can't reply from that account, because theymos closed it as an exceptional favor to me upon my request last week.
I was trying to STFU so I could go do more coding on a "Bitcoin killer" altcoin I am working on. So I requested to close my account so I wouldn't be tempted to be dragged into wasting my time talking.
there is no math proof that there is no vulnerability here and your assessment that it is possible is good enough for me to be concerned.
Good point there is no proof yet that it isn't possible.
Note I have not assessed that the cracking the private keys is possible. I just asked that we have to look for the literature on cracks where there are two simultaneous equations. I've seen nothing from smooth's mathematicians yet on this.
I have accessed that Sybil attacking the anonymity is likely amplified. And appears smooth is leaning that way too, but no final conclusion yet.
Would you prefer I quit now?
I can only speak for myself, and I really don't give a rat's ass, pal.
Of course, if you do quit, the community may ostracize me for pushing you to do so, so I would ask that you don't quit because really, I hope you are helping us.
Truce?
if you have any XMR, pissing him off is as stupid as pissing off BCX
for people that think this is some game, it isnt. It is a race against the clock so let us spend the time helping instead of distracting/trolling.
James
P.S. There are chances that this is not a big problem at all, but non-zero chances that it could be severe so it cannot be ignored.
The 11 BTC is too small to compensate me for the time lost. It is a matter of principle. People who break their word of honor with me incur my wrath.
Look, I really don't want to know about what is too small to compensate for what you require compensation for. That sounds like a personal problem.
And your breath is probably enough of a wrath so I am glad I'm not in your physical presence.
Douchebag.
Would you prefer I quit now?
if there is a non-zero chance of a fatal exploit, then better to be safe than sorry and pursue it to the best of our abilities
these trolls might be trying to derail you so XMR gets hurt
there is no math proof that there is no vulnerability here and your assessment that it is possible is good enough for me to be concerned.
ignore trolls, they are not any important part of this.
James
edit: I own a total of 0 XMR, and even if BBR is immune I dont want to see any promising coin hurt or worse
So it is unsure if I have proven amplification, but I would say it is very likely.
Remember, we had already proved amplification, if by amplification you mean that the attacker can gain knowledge of additional payment linkages beyond those revealed directly by knowledge of his own outputs (our research bulletin called this a chain reaction). http://lab.monero.cc/pubs/MRL-0001.pdf
In that sense I would say you have proven amplification, since your method identifies all of the cases identified in our paper.
It seems likely at this stage that your method will also demonstrate additional amplification, but two things are needed:
1. To show the additional amplification indeed happens. This seems relatively easy.
2. To show that it is a viable method (resource requirements to achieve #1 are reasonably feasible). Not sure about this one, but I would say >50%
Almost there.
BTW, I don't think the BBR feature is directly effective against Sybil attackers. It prevents disclosure to the public (for example by someone spending without a mix) but a Sybil attacker can easily create these min-mix outputs, and then you will choose them as your "safe" mixin. But the damage is done as soon as you use the attackers outputs in a mix (he knows his are not the real ones so yours is identified by elimination); whether or how he spends does not matter.
The BBR feature may slow down the rate of chain reaction sunder some conditions, I'm not sure.
In any case we move on to...
Quote
BCX has admitted in the trollbox that he needs a TimeWarp attack to rewind the blockchain and spend the private keys he cracks. He claims he has that TW attack and he also thinks he can crack the private keys. But we have not yet figured out either of those two things. And we are skeptical (well lets say they are skeptical and I am not sure what I think, I'm too sleepy).
Agreed, except I would say the skepticism is greater on the math, less on the code.
Just read this. Seems all very reasonable at this point. I don't know why anyone is saying the devs are skeptical about my contribution.
Smooth is referring to the "Outs with guaranteed anonymity" feature of BBR, which would require a hard fork to add to XMR.
Why is the focus on the anonymity in Monero? Shouldn't the focus be on other things BCX alluded to earlier.
Can someone help a noob out, why all the hate for the new alternate currencies?
~BCX~
Haven't seen you in the alts section in a while hows Aura coin doing?
I'm guessing Spoetnik and his boys hate for alts are fueled by their failure to launch shit coins and capitalize on the alt market so now they've basically gone the route of going full retard.
Yeah I have been out of the US for the past few months and busy as hell. I've had a few people PM about looking at another shitcoin called Monero so I did. It took me me less than two hours to find a really big hole. When are devs going to learn that rapid retarget is an open invitation to an exploit? I'm going to drop a herd or two it till I figure what I am going to do.
It all really depends on what Cryptsy does with it.
~BCX~
* The blockchain will be (and grow) most likely larger than bitcoin one (for the same usage), by a linear factor. Probably something like 5~20 times. Many people don't think it's a problem since it's the price to pay for anonymity. Is this range of numbers not acceptable for you?
If MRO has a goal of being confined to a niche coin used only by people that have an absolute need for anonymity, then a huge block chain that crawls is no issue.
If MRO desires to be a widely accepted form of money transfer and storage, then speed and anonymity will be what puts it out front of all coins. No such coin exist today.
Solve the diff issue, solve the bloat issue, break the known barriers.
~BCX~
I wouldn't really classify Monero as a shitcoin, we never had a premine or instamine (like ByteCoin) and the distribution so far has been very fair:
http://monerochain.info/charts/coins
@TacoTime
The main reasons why I bothered with a sandbox instead of a live test.
As far as the 50% scenario you not exactly correct on what it would take to exploit it, but I'm not looking to 51% it at any rate. I am working on optimizing a fork of Claymore and I am willing to bet I still have one of the largest if not the largest GPU farms still assembled but at the moment dormant.
For the time being I am looking at solving the diff issue.
Is this your chain?
@HippieTech
I certainly did and like I said, proper motivation prompted them to solve our issue rather quickly.
~BCX~
I believe there is a difference is opinion on how successful an attack is between the XMR devs and BCX in regards to hashrate and diff as seen below. BCX called out but was rebuffed.
As far as the 50% scenario you not exactly correct on what it would take to exploit it, but I'm not looking to 51% it at any rate. I am working on optimizing a fork of Claymore and I am willing to bet I still have one of the largest if not the largest GPU farms still assembled but at the moment dormant.
6) Like a lot of the devs I have proven wrong time and time over, Fluffy and TT are incorrect about needing 51% to TW a chain. I nailed Auroracoin to the cross with ~20%. At this moment in time it would take me ~22 days to do so. It took me 12 days for AUR.
Can someone help a noob out, why all the hate for the new alternate currencies?
~BCX~
Haven't seen you in the alts section in a while hows Aura coin doing?
I'm guessing Spoetnik and his boys hate for alts are fueled by their failure to launch shit coins and capitalize on the alt market so now they've basically gone the route of going full retard.Yeah I have been out of the US for the past few months and busy as hell. I've had a few people PM about looking at another shitcoin called Monero so I did. It took me me less than two hours to find a really big hole. When are devs going to learn that rapid retarget is an open invitation to an exploit? I'm going to drop a herd or two it till I figure what I am going to do.
It all really depends on what Cryptsy does with it.
~BCX~
* The blockchain will be (and grow) most likely larger than bitcoin one (for the same usage), by a linear factor. Probably something like 5~20 times. Many people don't think it's a problem since it's the price to pay for anonymity. Is this range of numbers not acceptable for you?
If MRO has a goal of being confined to a niche coin used only by people that have an absolute need for anonymity, then a huge block chain that crawls is no issue.
If MRO desires to be a widely accepted form of money transfer and storage, then speed and anonymity will be what puts it out front of all coins. No such coin exist today.
Solve the diff issue, solve the bloat issue, break the known barriers.
~BCX~
I wouldn't really classify Monero as a shitcoin, we never had a premine or instamine (like ByteCoin) and the distribution so far has been very fair:
http://monerochain.info/charts/coins
@TacoTime
The main reasons why I bothered with a sandbox instead of a live test.
As far as the 50% scenario you not exactly correct on what it would take to exploit it, but I'm not looking to 51% it at any rate. I am working on optimizing a fork of Claymore and I am willing to bet I still have one of the largest if not the largest GPU farms still assembled but at the moment dormant.
For the time being I am looking at solving the diff issue.
Is this your chain?
@HippieTech
I distinctly remember your warnings about the impending attack on their servers with BitJohn and some of the regulars playing along by acting concerned/scared.
I don't have any screenshots or chat logs to prove it... yet.
I don't have any screenshots or chat logs to prove it... yet.
I certainly did and like I said, proper motivation prompted them to solve our issue rather quickly.
~BCX~
I believe there is a difference is opinion on how successful an attack is between the XMR devs and BCX in regards to hashrate and diff as seen below. BCX called out but was rebuffed.
As far as the 50% scenario you not exactly correct on what it would take to exploit it, but I'm not looking to 51% it at any rate. I am working on optimizing a fork of Claymore and I am willing to bet I still have one of the largest if not the largest GPU farms still assembled but at the moment dormant.
6) Like a lot of the devs I have proven wrong time and time over, Fluffy and TT are incorrect about needing 51% to TW a chain. I nailed Auroracoin to the cross with ~20%. At this moment in time it would take me ~22 days to do so. It took me 12 days for AUR.
Would you prefer I quit now?
I can only speak for myself, and I really don't give a rat's ass, pal.
Of course, if you do quit, the community may ostracize me for pushing you to do so, so I would ask that you don't quit because really, I hope you are helping us.
Truce?
The 11 BTC is too small to compensate me for the time lost. It is a matter of principle. People who break their word of honor with me incur my wrath.
Look, I really don't want to know about what is too small to compensate for what you require compensation for. That sounds like a personal problem.
And your breath is probably enough of a wrath so I am glad I'm not in your physical presence.
Douchebag.
Would you prefer I quit now?
if there is a non-zero chance of a fatal exploit, then better to be safe than sorry and pursue it to the best of our abilities
these trolls might be trying to derail you so XMR gets hurt
there is no math proof that there is no vulnerability here and your assessment that it is possible is good enough for me to be concerned.
ignore trolls, they are not any important part of this.
James
edit: I own a total of 0 XMR, and even if BBR is immune I dont want to see any promising coin hurt or worse
The 11 BTC is too small to compensate me for the time lost. It is a matter of principle. People who break their word of honor with me incur my wrath.
Look, I really don't want to know about what is too small to compensate for what you require compensation for. That sounds like a personal problem.
And your breath is probably enough of a wrath so I am glad I'm not in your physical presence.
Douchebag.
Would you prefer I quit now?
I have been thinking why OP made this thread, I can only reach to one conclusion, it was all a bluff and he didn't expected anyone to believe, the problem is he has a history of social engineering his BS to harm coins, news of CN code being obfuscated reached him so he decided to "strike" again, what happened was someone (anonymint) said to had an epiphany about a possible bug, maybe as the experienced individual he actually is, looking at the abyss for long enough he thought the abyss looked back at him, note that the possible exploit "found" by anonymint does not allow privatekey seizure nor can limit anonymity as result of a fix, the result imply either OP is a genius at level of satoshi or total scum bag. After the news from anonymint reached him, he decided to "change" his plans and announce an "attack" on XMR with a long enough dead-line to people shake in fear, because now his plot had "external verification", or so he wanted us to think, furthering his agenda of exploiting fear on the nascent XMR community.
He probably want Monero hash-rate to drop low enough so he can fire up his mining machines and make an actual damage with 51%, or just buy low.
He probably want Monero hash-rate to drop low enough so he can fire up his mining machines and make an actual damage with 51%, or just buy low.
Everything you wrote is plausible except for "nor can limit anonymity as result of a fix". I am not sure about that yet. Still trying to characterize it and potential mitigation.
Also I take exception to, "looking at the abyss for long enough he thought the abyss looked back at him". My philosophical beliefs about coming global economic smashup 2016 - 2024, doesn't leak into my rational programming. I don't see how it can. For example, in my private conversation with smooth, he wrote "well as the chain gets is arbitrarily large, there is [no] guarantee it will even produce any at all (in viably finite time)". I agreed and responded with a tweak to the pseudocode.
This is complex shit that is above most your pay grades.
The 11 BTC is too small to compensate me for the time lost. It is a matter of principle. People who break their word of honor with me incur my wrath.
Look, I really don't want to know about what is too small to compensate for what you require compensation for. That sounds like a personal problem.
And your breath is probably enough of a wrath so I am glad I'm not in your physical presence.
Douchebag.
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