Department of Homeland Security - page 3.

justusranvier

legendary

Activity: 1400

Merit: 1013

Quote from: dmartig on May 16, 2013, 08:47:35 AM

war is stupid and the biggest waste of resources ever devised. i would hope that those on this forum are more intelligent and spiritually advanced enough to recognize that fact.

Even this statement downplays the truth to the point of being inaccurate.

War is mass murder.

We're taught to pretend that there's more to it because the people involved wear costumes, but the clothes that someone is wearing when they murder another person do not change the nature of what is happening.

BTC Books

member

Activity: 84

Merit: 10

Quote from: dmartig on May 16, 2013, 08:47:35 AM

the real patriots of the vietnam era were myself and those like me who marched in the streets to end a STUPID imperialist war against a country that posed absolutely no threat to us. many who went to vietnam were drafted. given the choice they would not have gone. the more things change the more they stay the same. there are still those who believe government propaganda and join the military to go spread democracy at the end of a gun (or drone). good for them. they are not heroes any more than those of any other imperialist war. if we are invaded that is another story.

btw we were there for over 10 years and lost over 50k men, and seriously wounded and mentally damaged untold others. war is stupid and the biggest waste of resources ever devised. i would hope that those on this forum are more intelligent and spiritually advanced enough to recognize that fact.

the first step to freedom is recognizing that the government is not your friend but your enemy, the next step is opting out of the corporate/fascist system. the first step to do that is to create OUR own monetary system. that is exactly what bitcoin is doing. why should governments and banksters be the only ones to create money out of thin air?

you want to fight a war? invest in bitcoins.

I did both. What does that make me?

All three now, counting the bitcoin war...

dmartig

member

Activity: 97

Merit: 10

the real patriots of the vietnam era were myself and those like me who marched in the streets to end a STUPID imperialist war against a country that posed absolutely no threat to us. many who went to vietnam were drafted. given the choice they would not have gone. the more things change the more they stay the same. there are still those who believe government propaganda and join the military to go spread democracy at the end of a gun (or drone). good for them. they are not heroes any more than those of any other imperialist war. if we are invaded that is another story.

btw we were there for over 10 years and lost over 50k men, and seriously wounded and mentally damaged untold others. war is stupid and the biggest waste of resources ever devised. i would hope that those on this forum are more intelligent and spiritually advanced enough to recognize that fact.

the first step to freedom is recognizing that the government is not your friend but your enemy, the next step is opting out of the corporate/fascist system. the first step to do that is to create OUR own monetary system. that is exactly what bitcoin is doing. why should governments and banksters be the only ones to create money out of thin air?

you want to fight a war? invest in bitcoins.

NedKLee

newbie

Activity: 46

Merit: 0

Quote from: Jnitngle on May 15, 2013, 05:52:39 PM

Quote from: QuestionAuthority on May 14, 2013, 09:44:03 PM

Quote from: data_teks on May 14, 2013, 09:32:02 PM

All I would say is if you have any bitcoins or cash at MtGox; get it out now! You can't fight the US gov, you just have to stay out of their way.

Seriously! A little country the size of New Mexico kicked the shit out of the USA for decades making USA troops withdraw in shame because a small group of highly motivated radicals back home like the people on this forum refused to bend over and take it up the ass.

I'm talking about Vietnam for those that can't figure it out.

Vietnam didn't kick the shit out of me or anyone I know. Nor did we withdraw in shame. We outfought them in every major battle and most small ones. Americans did not want to continue the fight and thus lost the will to continue supporting the South Vietnamese Government. We withheld supplies and aid And they fell to the North. Those are the facts. I have friends who died kicking the shit out of them. Words have meaning. Please be careful you don't dishonor the memory of those who fell in battle. I fought there and so did many others in this forum. While Vietnam fell those who died fought for freedom, human dignity and for their loved ones back home. These ideas were worth dying for then and there are Americans and others dying thruout the world for those same ideals now.

+1

You speak the truth brother, you, we, have always been able to hold our heads up high.

BTC Books

member

Activity: 84

Merit: 10

Quote from: Nemesis on May 15, 2013, 07:43:06 PM

LOL i doubt some members here are actually Vietnam vet...

I'm not stupid Roll Eyes

You're mistaken.

QuestionAuthority

legendary

Activity: 2156

Merit: 1393

You lead and I'll watch you walk away.

Quote from: Nemesis on May 15, 2013, 07:43:06 PM

LOL i doubt some members here are actually Vietnam vet...

I'm not stupid Roll Eyes

If you want to understand Vietnam War, there are many books (even recently published intel about the war). Go nuts. And stay off this forums.

No, I won't stop for you. If the OP wants me to I will but this thread is about DHS and standing up against a government that finds oppression appealing. The Occupy movement marched in the street passively just like the protests I remember from my youth. DHS is militarizing a financial war that they know can circumvent government control. Comparing that civil disobedience to those of the past is more than relevant it's necessary for the sake of perspective. People need to know that they can win!

BTW: I do believe he fought for his country. So did I and it embarrasses me.

Nemesis

sr. member

Activity: 462

Merit: 250

LOL i doubt some members here are actually Vietnam vet...

I'm not stupid Roll Eyes

If you want to understand Vietnam War, there are many books (even recently published intel about the war). Go nuts. And stay off this forums.

Chaoskampf

full member

Activity: 182

Merit: 100

order in numbers

Don't really want to get involved here, but I'd just like to add that our homeland security was left worse off because of the intervention in Vietnam. (wanted to tie it to back to the original topic in some way, if only superficially)

I do respect the sacrifice of fallen soldiers, though. They gave their lives in the service of something greater than themselves, and that is truly admirable. That doesn't change the fact that the politics surrounding Vietnam were misleading, exploitative, and imperialistic in nature.

QuestionAuthority

legendary

Activity: 2156

Merit: 1393

You lead and I'll watch you walk away.

Quote from: Jnitngle on May 15, 2013, 06:42:12 PM

Quote from: QuestionAuthority on May 15, 2013, 06:28:57 PM

Quote from: Jnitngle on May 15, 2013, 05:52:39 PM

Quote from: QuestionAuthority on May 14, 2013, 09:44:03 PM

Quote from: data_teks on May 14, 2013, 09:32:02 PM

All I would say is if you have any bitcoins or cash at MtGox; get it out now! You can't fight the US gov, you just have to stay out of their way.

Seriously! A little country the size of New Mexico kicked the shit out of the USA for decades making USA troops withdraw in shame because a small group of highly motivated radicals back home like the people on this forum refused to bend over and take it up the ass.

I'm talking about Vietnam for those that can't figure it out.

Vietnam didn't kick the shit out of me or anyone I know. Nor did we withdraw in shame. We outfought them in every major battle and most small ones. Americans did not want to continue the fight and thus lost the will to continue supporting the South Vietnamese Government. We withheld supplies and aid And they fell to the North. Those are the facts. I have friends who died kicking the shit out of them. Words have meaning. Please be careful you don't dishonor the memory of those who fell in battle. I fought there and so did many others in this forum. While Vietnam fell those who died fought for freedom, human dignity and for their loved ones back home. These ideas were worth dying for then and there are Americans and others dying thruout the world for those same ideals now.

Wow that took a long time. I was wondering if their we're any other old Vietnam vets on this forum. The Vietnam police action was a complete waste of human life and resources. I just see Vietnam as Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara's decision to kill a bunch of people in the jungle because the French couldn't. We didn't even get cheaper oil prices for that one. Intelligent citizens back home fought in the streets to stop that "police action."

I lost lots of friends and had wounded family because of Vietnam and I'm here to tell you we weren't fighting for freedom. We were doing the same thing 'Merica does today - sticks their nose in other countries business. Thank GOD there were strong young people marching in the streets back home that put enough pressure on government to stop it or we would probably have escalated it to nuclear.

I know what I was fighting for and I know what my friends were fighting for. I don't know who you are taking about when you use the word "we" but your not referring to me or any other person I knew there. I don't care about the French or MacNamara. If it makes you happy to spit on the memory of those who died I can't stop you. This is the last I will post about this.

I appreciate that you supported your country and thank you for it. I just think there comes a time to stand up against any country that makes people of another color sit in the back of the bus or gives guns to children and gets them killed needlessly. But I do respect the individuals effort. Good day

Jnitngle

newbie

Activity: 14

Merit: 0

Quote from: QuestionAuthority on May 15, 2013, 06:28:57 PM

Quote from: Jnitngle on May 15, 2013, 05:52:39 PM

Quote from: QuestionAuthority on May 14, 2013, 09:44:03 PM

Quote from: data_teks on May 14, 2013, 09:32:02 PM

All I would say is if you have any bitcoins or cash at MtGox; get it out now! You can't fight the US gov, you just have to stay out of their way.

Seriously! A little country the size of New Mexico kicked the shit out of the USA for decades making USA troops withdraw in shame because a small group of highly motivated radicals back home like the people on this forum refused to bend over and take it up the ass.

I'm talking about Vietnam for those that can't figure it out.

Vietnam didn't kick the shit out of me or anyone I know. Nor did we withdraw in shame. We outfought them in every major battle and most small ones. Americans did not want to continue the fight and thus lost the will to continue supporting the South Vietnamese Government. We withheld supplies and aid And they fell to the North. Those are the facts. I have friends who died kicking the shit out of them. Words have meaning. Please be careful you don't dishonor the memory of those who fell in battle. I fought there and so did many others in this forum. While Vietnam fell those who died fought for freedom, human dignity and for their loved ones back home. These ideas were worth dying for then and there are Americans and others dying thruout the world for those same ideals now.

Wow that took a long time. I was wondering if their we're any other old Vietnam vets on this forum. The Vietnam police action was a complete waste of human life and resources. I just see Vietnam as Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara's decision to kill a bunch of people in the jungle because the French couldn't. We didn't even get cheaper oil prices for that one. Intelligent citizens back home fought in the streets to stop that "police action."

I lost lots of friends and had wounded family because of Vietnam and I'm here to tell you we weren't fighting for freedom. We were doing the same thing 'Merica does today - sticks their nose in other countries business. Thank GOD there were strong young people marching in the streets back home that put enough pressure on government to stop it or we would probably have escalated it to nuclear.

I know what I was fighting for and I know what my friends were fighting for. I don't know who you are taking about when you use the word "we" but your not referring to me or any other person I knew there. I don't care about the French or MacNamara. If it makes you happy to spit on the memory of those who died I can't stop you. This is the last I will post about this.

dancingnancy

hero member

Activity: 661

Merit: 500

Quote from: Jnitngle on May 15, 2013, 05:52:39 PM

Quote from: QuestionAuthority on May 14, 2013, 09:44:03 PM

Quote from: data_teks on May 14, 2013, 09:32:02 PM

All I would say is if you have any bitcoins or cash at MtGox; get it out now! You can't fight the US gov, you just have to stay out of their way.

Seriously! A little country the size of New Mexico kicked the shit out of the USA for decades making USA troops withdraw in shame because a small group of highly motivated radicals back home like the people on this forum refused to bend over and take it up the ass.

I'm talking about Vietnam for those that can't figure it out.

Vietnam didn't kick the shit out of me or anyone I know. Nor did we withdraw in shame. We outfought them in every major battle and most small ones. Americans did not want to continue the fight and thus lost the will to continue supporting the South Vietnamese Government. We withheld supplies and aid And they fell to the North. Those are the facts. I have friends who died kicking the shit out of them. Words have meaning. Please be careful you don't dishonor the memory of those who fell in battle. I fought there and so did many others in this forum. While Vietnam fell those who died fought for freedom, human dignity and for their loved ones back home. These ideas were worth dying for then and there are Americans and others dying thruout the world for those same ideals now.

Totally off-topic but...

I feel bad that you had to go over there. I feel bad for your friends and family. But why did you go over there? I wasn't around back then, but were the Vietnamese attacking people in the USA? When you talk about people dying for ideas, I really do believe that you were brainwashed at the time. No offense. Thanks for your "service."

QuestionAuthority

legendary

Activity: 2156

Merit: 1393

You lead and I'll watch you walk away.

Quote from: Jnitngle on May 15, 2013, 05:52:39 PM

Quote from: QuestionAuthority on May 14, 2013, 09:44:03 PM

Quote from: data_teks on May 14, 2013, 09:32:02 PM

All I would say is if you have any bitcoins or cash at MtGox; get it out now! You can't fight the US gov, you just have to stay out of their way.

Seriously! A little country the size of New Mexico kicked the shit out of the USA for decades making USA troops withdraw in shame because a small group of highly motivated radicals back home like the people on this forum refused to bend over and take it up the ass.

I'm talking about Vietnam for those that can't figure it out.

Vietnam didn't kick the shit out of me or anyone I know. Nor did we withdraw in shame. We outfought them in every major battle and most small ones. Americans did not want to continue the fight and thus lost the will to continue supporting the South Vietnamese Government. We withheld supplies and aid And they fell to the North. Those are the facts. I have friends who died kicking the shit out of them. Words have meaning. Please be careful you don't dishonor the memory of those who fell in battle. I fought there and so did many others in this forum. While Vietnam fell those who died fought for freedom, human dignity and for their loved ones back home. These ideas were worth dying for then and there are Americans and others dying thruout the world for those same ideals now.

Wow that took a long time. I was wondering if their we're any other old Vietnam vets on this forum. The Vietnam police action was a complete waste of human life and resources. I just see Vietnam as Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara's decision to kill a bunch of people in the jungle because the French couldn't. We didn't even get cheaper oil prices for that one. Intelligent citizens back home fought in the streets to stop that "police action."

I lost lots of friends and had wounded family because of Vietnam and I'm here to tell you we weren't fighting for freedom. We were doing the same thing 'Merica does today - sticks their nose in other countries business. Thank GOD there were strong young people marching in the streets back home that put enough pressure on government to stop it or we would probably have escalated it to nuclear.

Jnitngle

newbie

Activity: 14

Merit: 0

Quote from: QuestionAuthority on May 14, 2013, 09:44:03 PM

Quote from: data_teks on May 14, 2013, 09:32:02 PM

All I would say is if you have any bitcoins or cash at MtGox; get it out now! You can't fight the US gov, you just have to stay out of their way.

Seriously! A little country the size of New Mexico kicked the shit out of the USA for decades making USA troops withdraw in shame because a small group of highly motivated radicals back home like the people on this forum refused to bend over and take it up the ass.

I'm talking about Vietnam for those that can't figure it out.

Vietnam didn't kick the shit out of me or anyone I know. Nor did we withdraw in shame. We outfought them in every major battle and most small ones. Americans did not want to continue the fight and thus lost the will to continue supporting the South Vietnamese Government. We withheld supplies and aid And they fell to the North. Those are the facts. I have friends who died kicking the shit out of them. Words have meaning. Please be careful you don't dishonor the memory of those who fell in battle. I fought there and so did many others in this forum. While Vietnam fell those who died fought for freedom, human dignity and for their loved ones back home. These ideas were worth dying for then and there are Americans and others dying thruout the world for those same ideals now.

Exoskeleton

sr. member

Activity: 338

Merit: 251

This is what I get for feeding trolls. I guess I forgot how these forums can work. I was trying to make a sarcastic point of the realitys of anarchy, not give a direct example of what I would do to you. I don't support large armys, war or casual violence.

If you think we can live without some form of government or taxes you are a naive fool. A child. I also once thought total anarchy was a good idea, when I was 13. Then I grew up.

There is no minimum age for posting on the internet so its times like this that I wonder how old some of you really are. Your promotion of anarchy embodies the mentality of a teenage boy. Have fun with your anarchist friends at the kids table. Im going back to sit with the adults.

drrussellshane

hero member

Activity: 546

Merit: 500

Quote from: justusranvier on May 15, 2013, 09:55:41 AM

Quote from: Exoskeleton on May 15, 2013, 01:39:22 AM

Anarchy would be fun untill I put a bullet in your head because your wife is not sucking me off...

That is, of course, exactly why governments must not exist. The damage as people like yourself can do with a single bullet is bad enough, but what you can do when given access to armies and taxation is beyond horrifying.

This.

justusranvier

legendary

Activity: 1400

Merit: 1013

Quote from: Exoskeleton on May 15, 2013, 01:39:22 AM

Anarchy would be fun untill I put a bullet in your head because your wife is not sucking me off...

That is, of course, exactly why governments must not exist. The damage people like yourself can do with a single bullet is bad enough, but what you can do when given access to armies and taxation is beyond horrifying.

datz

sr. member

Activity: 295

Merit: 250

"to survive, we must live and fly"

I know exactly who wrote that affidavit - that scoundrel. It's nothing personal, it's just business. If you want cash to bitcoin or bank account transfer to bitcoin you go through American companies. Japan is a conquered nation. Japan is stepping on America's toes. Japan must yield Bitcoin. Mutually assured destruction has denied us world wars - now we fight on the economic battlegrounds.

Exoskeleton

sr. member

Activity: 338

Merit: 251

If you don't beleive in having a system of government then I can not continue this debate with you or anyone who holds this extreme viewpoint. Its not worth my time

Edit: I gave the trolls way too much food on this thread. Bitcointalk is no place to argue about anarchy for days.

justusranvier

legendary

Activity: 1400

Merit: 1013

Quote from: Exoskeleton on May 15, 2013, 01:07:44 AM

My problem with your attitude is not with these facts. Its with your solution. You offer none. What exactally do you suggest I do with my time? If I want to change the way the world works, what other than being politically active would you offer as a form of action?

You might as well ask which is the correct type of rain dance needed to change the climate.

Your sequence of errors started here:

Quote from: Exoskeleton on May 14, 2013, 11:48:49 PM

The US gov is not evil

The US government is evil by definition because it is a government and the act of governing is evil.

There is no way to improve or correct evil. There is no way to use evil in order to achieve good. The only solution that works is to stop doing evil.

If you want to find something productive to do with your time, start looking around at the actual sources of oppression in your daily life. They are much closer to than the Washington DC mafia, and are something you can actually do something about.

Exoskeleton

sr. member

Activity: 338

Merit: 251

Quote from: Chaoskampf on May 15, 2013, 12:39:10 AM

Quote from: Exoskeleton on May 15, 2013, 12:21:45 AM

Quote from: Chaoskampf on May 14, 2013, 11:36:12 PM

Quote from: justusranvier on May 14, 2013, 11:23:15 PM

Quote from: Exoskeleton on May 14, 2013, 11:18:40 PM

So true brother. Its called politics people. Vote.

The US gov has been wrong about almost every major issue untill forced to change by the people. Slavery, womens right to vote, civil rights (racism and jim crow laws), civil rights (drug laws), civil rights (basic privacy). Every war since 1945...

We have to speak up sometime. We have to draw a line in the sand. I beleive in the US gov more than anybody I know. Its a great system and we should recognize that everyday. By the people, for the people. By the people, for the people. But it could be better. If the word privacy doesn't stand for something today, it will fall for anything tomorrow.

"Divided we stand. United we fall."

I admit to being stumped.

The politics we need isn't going to be within this system. None of those "changes" you refer to actually changed very much. As a previous post noted, "for every action there is a reaction". We don't have black people picking cotton anymore, but we have many new and pernicious forms of slavery (mortgages, Fiat currency, non-stop pre-emptive war, the healthcare mafia). Women can vote now, but can we honestly say that either women or men can cast ballots for anyone truly worth voting for in our ridiculous two party "democracy"? I don't think the rest of your examples really need fleshing out.

While slaves being freed, women being able to vote, the end of jim crow laws/open racisim, and other such events may not have made an impact on your life at the time, they were huge events. These changes in law did a lot of good for a lot of people. Are you seriously questioning this fact?

The only reason why politics are so "impossible" today and "no one is worth voting for" is because people like you give up. You just wave the white flag. Are you french?

If you want to complain about the US gov go right ahead. But if you want to do something its called politics. You have to change the system from within. Its not easy. You have to work with people who you don't like or agree with, and compromise. It won't change everything, and you won't get your whole wishlist. Nobody does. But whats your alternative? Show up at the white house with a gun and start blastin. Sit at home and complain on a forum. Good luck changing the world by yourself...

My ultimate point is that while we can point to the government making changes and say that these are substantive, with every action there is an UNequal and opposite reaction. If you think that the ruling class (the ones who the government works for) will simply sacrifice their power because of public opinion, then you need to read some more serious history books. Because we can't force black people to be our slaves anymore, we have to use Chinese and Indian children, who will attach plastic parts together until their lungs shrivel up from chemical fumes. If you go down the list of examples, for every 1 change in public policy there are an accompanying 100 different externalities which aren't mentioned, and which skew the structures of power in favor of those who have always had them and will continue to keep them as long as people subscribe to being governed. That's the whole point of making the changes in the first place. You need to placate the masses and make them think this is their government which they have influence over, otherwise participation in this system will suffer.

Well I have to say for a large part I agree. I hate the two party system with a passion and almost everything about politics in the US. I would also have to agree that the people with money will keep as much power as they can, and occasionally throw a bone to keep us fighting over scraps. This is obvious.

My problem with your attitude is not with these facts. Its with your solution. You offer none. What exactally do you suggest I do with my time? If I want to change the way the world works, what other than being politically active would you offer as a form of action?

Its one thing to complain and tear others thoughts down. Its quite another to build somethig greater. Unless you can do the latter don't do the former.

Topic: Department of Homeland Security - page 3. (Read 7125 times)