Describe the blockchain in one sentence - page 9.

CIYAM

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Quote from: Beliathon on April 07, 2015, 09:59:16 AM

I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm more fond of certain dead French philosophers than I am most living American politicians.

Well that I think we can probably agree upon!

(and I would apply that to the vast majority of all politicians in the world)

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Quote from: CIYAM on April 07, 2015, 09:54:19 AM

What some dead French philosophers think we should consider the word "democracy" to mean is basically *irrelevant* (or do we have to run votes now to determine what people mean by words?).

I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm more fond of certain dead French philosophers than I am of most living American politicians.

CIYAM

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Well if you want to "change the meaning of democracy" to have zero to do with "voting" and "majority rule" then I guess you are right.

But you can pretty much win any argument by changing the meaning of words that everyone else tends to associate with a different meaning.

I think you'll find that the majority of people still believe that the word "democracy" refers to a system of majority voting (which Bitcoin is not).

What some dead French philosophers think we should consider the word "democracy" to mean is basically *irrelevant* (or do we have to run votes now to determine what people mean by words?).

Beliathon

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Quote from: CIYAM on April 07, 2015, 09:42:45 AM

okay - so you mean deciding which version of the software to run

Yes. Mind you, this is the same as saying "defining precisely what bitcoin is, and what it is not". Bitcoin's live implemented code is tempered by the will of the community. This is democracy, but not as you know it. It's happening in slow motion and on hard drives all over the world.

Quote from: CIYAM on April 07, 2015, 09:45:47 AM

Quote from: Beliathon on April 07, 2015, 09:44:06 AM

Saying a miner can stick with a dying fork is like saying a miner can stick with a dying altcoin. Yes, they technically can, but will they? Will any miner pay the electricity bill for that shit? Not for long.

I just don't think of it as "democratic" which is perhaps why I think simply better to not use that "loaded term"

To help clarify what I mean when I say "bitcoin is the democratization of money", here is some writing from people more articulate than I:

https://bitcoinmagazine.com/10724/bitcoin-really-represent-democratization-money/

http://emergent-culture.com/the-democratization-of-money-is-bitcoin-the-currency-of-liberation-new-economy-transition-town-monetary-reform-economic/

http://historiesofthingstocome.blogspot.sg/2014/07/bitcoin-economy-of-eternal-now.html

CIYAM

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Quote from: CIYAM on April 07, 2015, 09:33:12 AM

A tamper-proof, transparent public ledger.

I think that is about as "short and sweet" as it gets.

Fat Ronaldo

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Just the actual blockchain and no mention of bitcoin or anything else? I guess simply put it's a decentralized digital public ledger but that doesn't really tell a laymen much about it to be honest.

Bitcoinpro

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Decentralization say that about 5 times

CIYAM

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Quote from: Beliathon on April 07, 2015, 09:44:06 AM

Saying a miner can stick with a dying fork is like saying a miner can stick with a dying altcoin. Yes, they technically can, but will they? Will any miner pay the electricity bill for that shit? Not for long.

You missed my 3 x 30% point but for sure I get your point (I just don't think of it as "democratic" which is perhaps why I think simply better to not use that "loaded term").

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It's hard to define the blockchain in a single sentence. It usually serves as a permanent public record of all transactions included in valid mined blocks.

But it's more than that, all nodes broadcast the blockchain to each other. It's a public ledger and allows to track the balance of any address at any point in time.

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Quote from: CIYAM on April 07, 2015, 09:42:45 AM

Quote from: Beliathon on April 07, 2015, 09:40:35 AM

Yes, they do. The miners decide which coins to mine, the miners decide which fork survives in a hard fork, the miners decide which bitcoin patches are used and which are not.

Hmm... okay - so you mean deciding which version of the software to run - still it isn't "democratic" as if forks happen then miners can choose to stick with a fork (there is nothing to force them to do otherwise).

Saying a miner can stick with a dying fork is like saying a miner can stick with a dying altcoin. Yes, they technically can, but will they? Will any miner pay the electricity bill for that shit? Not for long.

Note: I'm not speaking of hobbyists on their laptops here, but people with real money invested in mining as an enterprise. Those with farms and such, the real players.

CIYAM

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Quote from: Beliathon on April 07, 2015, 09:40:35 AM

Yes, they do. The miners decide which coins to mine, the miners decide which fork survives in a hard fork, the miners decide which bitcoin patches are used and which are not.

Hmm... okay - so you mean deciding which version of the software to run - still it isn't "democratic" as if forks happen then miners can choose to stick with a fork (there is nothing to force them to do otherwise).

If three groups of mining pools that each had around 30% of the hashing power each decided to go a different way then you'd end up with 3 versions of Bitcoin (not one).

I wasn't thinking about alt coins in this regard btw.

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Quote from: CIYAM on April 07, 2015, 09:39:33 AM

Quote from: Beliathon on April 07, 2015, 09:36:04 AM

It's Bitcoin that is democratic, relative to fiat in that economic policy is no longer centrally controlled, but democratically decided by the community (miners).

The miners don't decide anything by any method that equates to what we would call "democratic" all they do is build on the best chain that they see - so again I don't get the use of the word "democratic".

Yes, they do. The miners decide which coins to mine*, the miners decide which fork survives in a hard fork, the miners decide which bitcoin patches are used and which are not. This is all the epitome of democracy.

*You may argue, no, they mine whichever is most profitable and profit is determined by market valuation, but reality is not so simple and clear cut. Some will only mine bitcoin even when another coin would be more profitable.

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Quote from: Beliathon on April 07, 2015, 09:36:04 AM

It's Bitcoin that is democratic, relative to fiat in that economic policy is no longer centrally controlled, but democratically decided by the community (miners).

The miners don't decide anything by any method that equates to what most people would call "democratic" as all they do is build on the best chain that they see - so again I don't get the use of the word "democratic".

Beliathon

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Quote from: CIYAM on April 07, 2015, 09:33:12 AM

Quote from: Beliathon on April 07, 2015, 09:31:00 AM

A tamper-proof, transparent, democratic public ledger.

It is in no way democratic as there is no "voting" or "majority rules" but simply "the rules of the software".

So perhaps just: A tamper-proof and transparent public ledger.

Perhaps you're right. It's Bitcoin that is democratic, relative to fiat in that economic policy is no longer centrally controlled, but democratically decided by the community (miners - code as law).

Quote from: redsn0w on April 07, 2015, 09:35:11 AM

The blockchain is pure anarchism but at the same time perfect and ordered.

That is not an accident or a coincidence. Anarchy (consensus) was always the true order. It is the violent power-hierarchies of capitalism and the state that are the disorder / dystopia.

"Anarchy is Order Without Power"
-Proudhon

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The blockchain is pure anarchism but at the same time perfect and ordered. No one can control it, and this is why it is perfetc than the actual economic system.

Just my personal opinion.

CIYAM

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Quote from: Beliathon on April 07, 2015, 09:31:00 AM

A tamper-proof, transparent, democratic public ledger.

It is in no way democratic as there is no "voting" or "majority rules" but simply "the rules of the software" (is the >50% attack the reason you included that word?).

So perhaps just: A tamper-proof, transparent public ledger.

Beliathon

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A tamper-proof, transparent, democratic public ledger.

enhancedfuel

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I get asked alot about bitcoin and how the blockchain works by friends and family who are interested and I can never give a straight answer.

What do you guys tell your friends and how would you describe the blockchain in one sentence/paragraph?

Tom

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