Topic: Devcoin - page 78. (Read 412952 times)

These are good points - why not just increase the shares for admin work etc instead of decreasing shares for writing? I was made an admin this month and I can relate that writing seems to be an easier way to earn DVC, but on the other hand Devtome does not have a lot of writers yet so it may be best to keep writers well incentivized at this stage while we build a critical mass.

An exchange... That would be good. Give Vircurex some competition.

I seriously think that we should hope devcoins will become valuable enough that we can use the standard "one fifth of a share" unit of measure to reward writing.

I get this from it taking maybe an hour or two to write a thousand words and maybe taking an hour or two to host something that needs some admin stuff done. Or lets say, one hour of work's worth of actual money to actually pay for a machine to host it on and bandwidth for it and one hour of actual work running the thing.

So one fifth of a share seems to maybe be about an hour or two of work, and even then only work that is directly on project gets to do only ten hours for a full share, tangential / external stuff a share is forty hours!

I do not know how much coins would need to be worth, or really I guess, how much one-fifth shares would have to be worth, for this to be "reasonable". Recently an off the cuff guestimate of share value by Unthinkingbit put one fifth of a share at $30. Is not $30 a decent wage for an hour or two of promoting your own ouvre or genre or whatever you want by writing about it on a hopefully someday influential wiki?

Heck, some people would pay that much or more to be permitted to post their own work / original research / anything on an influential wiki!

The hosting one gets 1/5 of a share for one has to actually be paying for bandwidth and hosting, not just doing some work-of-your-own-choosing promoting anything-of-your-own choosing...

Are things we are paying about $30 a month to have someone host and admin things they can run as a freebie on a $5/month webhosting-only account or things they'd need a $30/month virtual machine for? (In the latter case the share merely covers the machine, so their real pay is just that they get to use any spare capacity of the machine for their own uses if it does end up actually having any spare capacity...)

EDIT: Example: a "stable" node. I read recently a bitcoin node crashed because it only had 4 gigs of RAM for its virtual machine. It needed to upgrade its RAM. The sheer number of connections a backbone/fallback/DNSseed node gets eats lots of RAM. A more than four gigs of RAM virtual machine costs how much per month typically? We give one fifth of a share for maintaining one of these nodes...

(Currently number of connections is low, so currently that maybe be fine. But bitcoin nodes can find four gigs of RAM is not enough. SO if we grow well, we can expect our core nodes to need more than four gigs of RAM each.)

Oh and bandwidth! How much for a server that *really* has *genuinely* "unlimited" bandwidth to supply thousands of nodes with copies of the entire blockchain?

-MarkM-

You're onto something... I'd say it's hard to invent something which will bring less revenue than wiki.

Because, you know, content farm ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Content_farm ) is an old concept, and there isn't much money in this stuff because market is already saturated. For me, personally, it was obvious that it will turn out the way it turns out as soon as I've read description...

Anyway, perhaps it would be better to brainstorm the ideas instead of continuing schadenfreude...

One obvious idea is a game which uses devcoin as a currency. OK, we already have such , but plenty of different games are possible... It would be nice to have something which people could get into right away, like register and within a minutes start playing.

I mean there is a whole spectrum between Satoshi Dice and Galactic Millieu...

As for coding in general, it is a bummer that you need to get users _before_ you get any devcoin funding. This means that devcoin will never encourage people to start something new, at best it will encourage people to maintain what is already successful.

Just an idea: you could finance hackathons. The idea is that a handful of developers can implement something startupish in 48 hours or so... So give them a sizable prize, like $1000 worth. Sure, 90% of such new projects will die right away, but 10% of them might get successful... even wildly successful.

If devcoin will enable development of a new, interesting open source project, it would be great for PR... Much more so than, um, content farm.

By the way, this thread gets completely out of hand, I can't keep up with it... Did you consider making offshots?

or just post a link to it...? Seriously though, while I guess it hasn't been a problem in a limited community I think the max per person writing share is a real issue and not addressing it will prove to have been counterproductive later, especially wrt attracting new info/work worth reading and continuing to appeal to the development side (not my forte at all), but most others don't think so and so I'm happy to go with the flow.

I thought about this...

If you write a book that is more than 80,000 words, post it as "Book Title, Part 1" and "Book Title, Part 2"

I think one share per 5000 words is a bit steep - certainly puts me off submitting a lot of writing! Maybe we should just double the admin shares?  

This is getting pretty complex and I'm thinking maybe UnthinkingBit has had the best approach, just letting the system (for the main part) roll as it is.

I think the word limit tackles most of the issues - maybe we can vote on increasing other shares for dev and admin work? Everyone has vested interests though (even if they don't mean to) so it is hard to remain objective and to be honest I am not sure what the best course of action is.

Science sounds like a good idea, I have tons of written video ideas for experiments people could try at home, or just watch me do from home to learn, and I also have some developmental research I'll be documenting.

Maybe it is too soon for a sister site, I didn't mean for the suggestion to go through instantly, I just think it would be a good move in the future. Because making a wiki is great, but once the coins are worth more, we can basically start an entire arts community based around devcoin. Which I know is the goal (plus science)

Appreciate the clarity. Not sure I know enough about how the system works yet to be voting on it so I'll go with everybody else's median, but will say I dont think any word limit is the issue at all. If somebody has written a book worth reading that's great. So is a short specific piece. The issue is the max share per individual (outside the work done for the project itself) but I realise this is difficult to administer.

Hehe everyone making sure they get their share of coins this round

but i have to say I agree the idea of writing 1000 words takes me about 1 -2 hours whereas to develop some app and maintain it is more like the 10 hours + and i'm "supposed" to be a developer Also for the record I am an admin and I have spent more time doing admin work this month than writing but will be getting more share from writing than admin work...

I would say that I think the max word limit is good 80K for this round sounds good...

Perhaps it is something then to set in place for all rounds here after as well.... and also with it a new tier writing system... just writing what i thinking here but say 1000 words earns u 1 share that round... to get next share u need to write 2000 more so 3000 words total 2 shares that round.... to get the 3rd share u need to write 3000 words more so total 6000 words... then 4000 words more for 4th share ...etc etc... or would that not encourage people to write lots? or would just upping the word count to 1 share per 5000 words?


Ok yes sorry u are right.. transcripts are not allowed at all... and agreed I think there should be a review category... with sub cats of Flims and TV series, Books and Music I guess plus any others people think good for now.

Also I think there should be a science category... have a bunch of science experiments some with videos that would be nice to share if anyone got any objection to that? Also perhaps a "Research" or development category where it would be nice to see more info on some of the devcoin projects that are perhaps in the pipeline for future technology etc... suppose I should go make the categories on devtome then and stop talking about it

Anyways good times to be into devcoins seems to be my favourite coin at the moment anyone else think the same??

Edit: Finshaggy posting


I like the url Deview.com very clever ...maybe little to soon for sister site, no reason why can't get all content on one site for now... if need to... then can launch sister site would be my thoughts, but feel free to shout me down




this was answered here by markm right after ur post...

Already posted before but it got buried under a bunch of posts:

I have another question. What exactly is eligible for a bounty? Any open source piece of software? What are the limits? Does it extend to software like a game? Thanks!

I'm thinking a "Deview.com".

We should be making sister sites for all this stuff and do it like:
Out of 180 mil total
100+ mil goes to Devtome
X mil goes to the review site per round, and is divided amongst the critics based on word count, then eventually traffic
X mil goes to picture submission site per round, each picture is worth X DVC or a share, then traffic eventually
X mil goes to video submission site per round, 1 min or 1 video is 1 share, then traffic eventually
etc


I'm not suggesting it be done this moment. I just think this is a better option than making sections.

If the vast majority of all shares are going to go to writing on devtome, that is going to water down the amounts allocated for hosting and for developers quite a bit.

I do not know if that is particularly important though, since bounties can be used to get stuff developed that might actually increase the value of the coins.

I still keep wondering though whether 1000 words is really 10 hours or 40 of hours of work, which is what one share normally apparently is expecting to be paying for.

When we hardly had any writers, and they were busy doing admin stuff, developing, or whatever so didn't even maybe get around to writing much, the dilution effect on the development and admin stipends wasn't so bad maybe, but if we are going to have maybe ten or twenty or thirty or more writers writing maybe ten or twenty or thirty (or much more) thousand words each in each round, that would start to put a big dent in admin and development stipends.

Just saying.

Disclosure: I get admin and developer stipends.

-MarkM-

EDIT: My anecdotal "impression" was that writing articles totally from scratch on the spot making them up as I went I was making probably about a share an hour, sure as heck not a share per ten to forty hours. Maybe it was really more like a share every two hours. But I dunno, I didn't put many hours in on articles but some rounds I got quite a few shares for them. (More than for admin plus developer but for maybe less hours put in.)

(I am a poor guesser of time though. Maybe sometimes way more hours went by than I noticed? Hmmm....)

For transcripts, that is someone else's work, so it must not go into devtome at all.

However, reviews of other work is an intermediate category. Reviews can be written faster than original work, and are not as valuable. I suggest another payment category besides the current Collated and Original. It would be Review, and its value would be decided by voting.

Should there be a Review category?

I would be fine with 80k per month so that has my vote

It also allows for back files.

If you reach the limit one month, save it for next month. Eventually you might end up with a year of work ready to be posted

Yes, a limit of 80 000 words is fine with me. Enables enough for me spend a coffee fueled month pumping out something psychedelic and not hitting the word count wall - when I have the time!

If everyone is really so worried about it, I believe this is the best solution. A limit would fix the "Quantity over Quality" 'problem'.

It is a repository of information for information' sake and traffic volume. Anything that meets the content requirements can go in:
http://www.devtome.com/doku.php?id=earn_devcoins_by_writing#requirements


The issue is quality. If someone wrote good dissertations, essays and fiction a while ago and is entering it all at once when they discover devtome, that's fine. If they're entering in bad writing, whether they wrote it before or are writing it now, that's a problem, and that's why we're moving towards revenue boost based on page views.

Once we get an impossible to game system for page views, we hopefully won't need a word limit. However, right now we don't have revenue boost at all, and there have been many requests for a word limit. I don't want to take away expected revenue, so the word limit should be higher then the highest number of words to date, also someone else told me in a private conversation about writing many words, and I told them to limit it to 80,000.

If people do want a word limit, we'll have a vote, and take the median of the result for every round after this one. Because I already told someone that they could write up to 80,000 words this round, if there is a word limit, this round it will be at least 80,000 words.

Edit: The 80,000 words was not my decision to make. I agree that it should be above 61,000 words this month, because changes should not be retroactive if possible, but I'll message the person who asked about writing a lot, and tell them about the new limit.

I used http://www.webdnstools.com/dnstools/ipcalc to convert that integer to an IP address...

...It came out as "The IP Number 0xb73c9ac6 converts to the IP Address 183.60.154.198"

So, backward, it seems, assuming said site is doing it correctly.

Unfortunately it does not use hax itself when turning an IP into an integer:

" The IP Address 198.154.60.183 converts to the IP Number 3331996855."

But presumably that is merely cosmetic, the array of IPs-as-integer should work with decimal integers too assuming that is actually what they are showing there.

So, using their page on our four stable node IPs, I have arrived at


But... was your version backward deliberately?

Does pnSeed actually need a bytewise-reversed version (different-endian, or something) ?

I think maybe it does want it byte-reversed, as I asked that site to convert the first of the ancient commented out ones from way back when we swiped bitcoin code to make devcoin, and is said it was 29.219.16.50, but watch:


So it looks like maybe that spew of addresses is probably a list of bitcoin nodes, and the array does need byte-reversed addresses.

Luckily it is easy to manually reverse the bytes of a ##.##.##.## format Ip address before typing it into that conversion website, so...


(I left the non-reversed integers in there but commented out. Just in case.)

-MarkM-