Diablo Mining Company - page 37. | Bitcointalksearch.org

DiabloD3

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Quote from: P4man on July 31, 2012, 07:11:12 AM

Quote from: Sukrim on July 31, 2012, 06:51:51 AM

As long as Diablo doesn't actually sell (and why should he? He hasn't sold IPO shares in a long time...) the capital gain/loss is only on paper and not realized.

He is selling stocks in his company, not bonds. He should appropriately (de)value his company's assets instead of pretending to make profits. Yes its "only on paper" but his entire business only consists of such paper. If you are going to keep these bonds off the books, afaik, DMC has a book value of zero.

Define "appropriately". Once a month I release a list of all of our assets and their current market value. Investors are free to use this information to make decisions about their investments. It can't get any more "on the books" than this.

DiabloD3

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Quote from: EskimoBob on July 31, 2012, 06:29:12 AM

Q 1: If you own a ~~bond~~ mining turd, you paid 1 BTC for, and it pays you 0.005 BTC per week, how much money did you make after 4 weeks if you sold the mining turd at 1 BTC?
A 1: You earned 0.005x4=0.02 from divs and 0 from capital gain (minus trade commission)

Now,
Q 2: If you own a mining turd, you paid 1 BTC for, and it pays you 0.005 BTC per week, but the bond price drops at the same rate, 0.005 BTC per week, how much money do you make in 4 weeks, if you sell your mining turd?
A 2: You earned 0.005x4=0.02 in 4 weeks, but you also have a capital loss of 0.005 per week for the same time period - hence your actual earnings are ≤ 0 . (minus trade commission)

Why do you want to own junk like that?

Why would I want to sell them? The only time I've sold them is to swap them for more mhash with another one (which I ended up basically doubling our mhash during the GLBSE crash). Owning the majority of mhash on GLBSE is conductive to the goals of DMC, even after the plan is completed.

Theres about 850 ghash out there on GLBSE, and last month's numbers put us at 11 and a half of it. If DMC owned half of that 850, I could finish the plan on the output of the bond/share dividends alone.

Sukrim

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He will most likely tomorrow release an updated overview with all assets held, dividend earnings etc. and the current market value of these assets...

I'd love to see some more action towards actually getting the price up to the 1 BTC mark to get the real company started though - atm. it's not much more than a mining fund that pays out only half of the dividend... Diablo could have done location scouting in the mean time, post some nice pictures etc.

P4man

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Quote from: Sukrim on July 31, 2012, 06:51:51 AM

As long as Diablo doesn't actually sell (and why should he? He hasn't sold IPO shares in a long time...) the capital gain/loss is only on paper and not realized.

He is selling stocks in his company, not bonds. He should appropriately (de)value his company's assets instead of pretending to make profits. Yes its "only on paper" but his entire business only consists of such paper. If you are going to keep these bonds off the books, afaik, DMC has a book value of zero.

Sukrim

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You can earn 0.005 BTC per week for a longer time than the bond can loose 0.005 BTC per week on the market. At least that's the bet on going long on mining bonds as far as I understand it.

As long as Diablo doesn't actually sell (and why should he? He hasn't sold IPO shares in a long time...) the capital gain/loss is only on paper and not realized.

EskimoBob

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Q 1: If you own a ~~bond~~ mining turd, you paid 1 BTC for, and it pays you 0.005 BTC per week, how much money did you make after 4 weeks if you sold the mining turd at 1 BTC?
A 1: You earned 0.005x4=0.02 from divs and 0 from capital gain (minus trade commission)

Now,
Q 2: If you own a mining turd, you paid 1 BTC for, and it pays you 0.005 BTC per week, but the bond price drops at the same rate, 0.005 BTC per week, how much money do you make in 4 weeks, if you sell your mining turd?
A 2: You earned 0.005x4=0.02 in 4 weeks, but you also have a capital loss of 0.005 per week for the same time period - hence your actual earnings are ≤ 0 . (minus trade commission)

Why do you want to own junk like that?

DiabloD3

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Quote from: P4man on July 30, 2012, 05:21:37 PM

Are you paying dividends or coupons?
Dividends are paid on profits, not revenue. To calculate profits, you cant keep ignoring the fact the bonds you hold are way under water particularly since AFAIK, those bonds are your company's only asset. You are essentially acting like the banks did before the housing bubble burst, paying dividends (and bonuses) based on profits that didnt exist because they didnt write off their toxic assets. You can keep doing that for a while, but eventually your investors will figure it out.

But what does "way under water" mean? Many of these I sold as GLBSE crashed just to buy others at a net mhash gain. As long as these bonds continue to pay out x mhash of dividends over y time period, they continue to be worth x mhash. Because they are no longer worth z BTC is a meaningless observation.

That'd be like saying the Kindle Fire sitting on my desk is under water because the Nexus 7 just came out for the same price. It still does exactly what it did before the Nexus 7 came out, the Nexus 7 coming out does not diminish the Kindle Fire in any way.

People are not buying DMC for the mining power: selling power back to the grid and leasing high density compute oriented rack space is far more profitable in the long run. I am 100% transparent with my investors. Every month I publish a list of our assets and their current market value. So, yes, my investors already did figure out whats going on: GLBSE crashing and making bonds cheaper only helps DMC in the long run.

Also, I think you need to look up the definition of "toxic asset": these assets will become toxic when they stop paying out as per contract. They are not toxic or even in trouble, it is a contract for x mhash, and I am continuing to get the x mhash as per the contract.

P4man

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Are you paying dividends or coupons?
Dividends are paid on profits, not revenue. To calculate profits, you cant keep ignoring the fact the bonds you hold are way under water particularly since AFAIK, those bonds are your company's only asset. You are essentially acting like the banks did before the housing bubble burst, paying dividends (and bonuses) based on profits that didnt exist because they didnt write off their toxic assets. You can keep doing that for a while, but eventually your investors will figure it out.

DiabloD3

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As a reminder, dividend day is coming soon. Be sure to have any share purchases done before August 1st.

Transisto

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Good that you hold principles, And hope a silent ASIC vendor come out soon enough.

DiabloD3

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A lot of people are questioning Butterfly Labs' commitment to the Bitcoin community, and a lot of people are even coming right out and calling it a scam or a long con or the end of Bitcoin.

I cannot help but agree with these people.

Without a second vendor producing hardware just as efficient and cheap as Butterfly Labs claims their new Bitforce SC hardware is, I do not believe Butterfly Labs is being completely honest with potential customers.

Because of how Butterfly Labs has handled customer relations, Diablo Mining Company will never purchase Butterfly Labs hardware. We will pursue high-efficiency FPGA and ASIC hardware from alternate vendors only.

Diablo Mining Company will be the largest Bitcoin startup in the world, and we will do it without the help of Butterfly Labs.

DiabloD3

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Quote from: EskimoBob on July 03, 2012, 02:56:36 PM

What I did not find is DMC's income from dividends, paid by all the turds in the portfolio.

Take what I paid total this month and double it.

EskimoBob

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P4man, your sure have a sad view from your house window.

Code:

2012-07-03              Price
GIGAMINING      15    0.9800   14.7000
YABMC         1784    0.1800  321.1200
BMMO          1053    0.1957  206.0721
TYGRR.BOND-A   849    0.1700  144.3300
BTCMC          994    0.8189  813.9866
OBSI.1MHS      941    0.1600  150.5600
RSM              4    0.2500    1.0000
BMF            450    0.9890  445.0500
BFLS.RIG        98    0.7000   68.6000
SYNERGY        140    0.1750   24.5000

            Total V in BTC  2,189.9187
            Srs outst.      4,068   
            NAV?                0.5383

What I did not find is DMC's income from dividends, paid by all the turds in the portfolio.

P4man, you sure have a sad view from your apartment window. Cry

DiabloD3

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Quote from: mc_lovin on July 03, 2012, 12:06:42 PM

I think buying a used facility will be much cheaper than building one.

This has already been discussed. If I can find a building that suits my needs, I will acquire that instead.

P4man

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Quote from: mc_lovin on July 03, 2012, 12:06:42 PM

I think buying a used facility will be much cheaper than building one.

Yeah. With what will be left of his IPO funds after having to sell those bonds, Im sure he can afford a nice building

Sometimes I wonder what planet some of you live on.

mc_lovin

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I think buying a used facility will be much cheaper than building one.

miscreanity

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Quote from: DiabloD3 on July 03, 2012, 01:59:51 AM

The contingency plan is me flipping Congress the bird and continuing to be more awesome than they can ever imagine.

This came to mind

DiabloD3

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Quote from: miscreanity on July 02, 2012, 08:53:23 PM

Quote from: DiabloD3 on July 02, 2012, 12:11:49 PM

Quote from: P4man on July 02, 2012, 10:35:30 AM

asset growth?
I may be missing something, but didnt you sell 4066 shares at 1 BTC while your holdings are currently worth 2189 BTC at market rate (and you will never even be able to actually sell for that much)?

Yup, you're missing things. Don't worry, it happens to even the best of us.

I assume you're referring to the DMC share price of ~0.5BTC adding up to about 2k?

Also, this is not to single you out as many mining outfits will have to deal with this:

What contingency plan do you have, if any, for being within a business-hostile environment that has granted itself the authority to seize assets as it sees fit, offering no recourse? Might it be better to have multiple smaller, independent facilities in geopolitically diverse locations?

Facilities, plural, still costs money. The DC I'm looking at building (either flat out, or buying a small warehouse no one wants anymore) is going to be around 100 square feet, or room enough for a dozen racks or so.

Also, its not like it wasn't business-hostile to begin with. We (me, investors, the Bitcoin community at large) all went into Bitcoin 3 years ago knowing the outside world there is business-hostile. This isn't really anything new. That said, GLBSE is panicing because Bitcoin prices are going up., thus the prices of all assets are going down.

The contingency plan is to continue, well, as planned. I don't think even if the entire world tried to stop Bitcoin, it could. No matter how much Congress tries to stop entrepreneurs like me from helping local economies and paying taxes and improving the quality of life of the citizens of this country, they can never stop us.

The contingency plan is me flipping Congress the bird and continuing to be more awesome than they can ever imagine.

miscreanity

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Quote from: DiabloD3 on July 02, 2012, 12:11:49 PM

Quote from: P4man on July 02, 2012, 10:35:30 AM

asset growth?
I may be missing something, but didnt you sell 4066 shares at 1 BTC while your holdings are currently worth 2189 BTC at market rate (and you will never even be able to actually sell for that much)?

Yup, you're missing things. Don't worry, it happens to even the best of us.

I assume you're referring to the DMC share price of ~0.5BTC adding up to about 2k?

Also, this is not to single you out as many mining outfits will have to deal with this:

What contingency plan do you have, if any, for being within a business-hostile environment that has granted itself the authority to seize assets as it sees fit, offering no recourse? Might it be better to have multiple smaller, independent facilities in geopolitically diverse locations?

DiabloD3

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Quote from: P4man on July 02, 2012, 01:03:31 PM

I just checked the value of your bonds today:

15 GIGAMINING (5 mhash) = ~~15.00 BTC (75 mhash)~~ 15
1784 YABMC (1 mhash) = ~~328.26 BTC (1784 mhash)~~ 285
1053 BMMO (1 mhash) = ~~195.86 BTC (1053 mhash)~~ 206
849 TYGRR.BOND-A (1 mhash) = ~~169.80 BTC (849 mhash)~~ 144
994 BTCMC (5 mhash) = ~~755.20 BTC (4970 mhash)~~ 746
941 OBSI.1MHS (1 mhash) = ~~178.79 BTC (941 mhash)~~ 150
4 RSM (1.3 mhash) = ~~5.20 BTC (5 mhash)~~ 1
450 BMF (3 mhash*) = 445.05 BTC (1350 mhash)
98 BFLS.RIG (4.15 mhash) = 68.60 BTC (407 mhash)
140 SYNERGY (1 mhash) = ~~27.72 BTC (140 mhash)~~ 25

total of ~2085 BTC. Assuming market depth would actually allow you to sell them all at those prices, in reality its going to be a lot less. Add the 41 BTC you paid in dividends and so far, you have managed to lose almost exactly half your investors money while claiming to make profits.
Really, you should start buying greek debt, your profits will soar!

Yawn, if you're going to troll, try harder.

Topic: Diablo Mining Company - page 37. (Read 96370 times)