Topic: dice.ninja - Now with Plinko! - page 65. (Read 84673 times)

I know what a signed message is. I was replying to caga's post about DB multisig proposal that was never implemented.

Is there anyway to see a high roller tab or make it so it only shows bets 0.1+ BTC?  I want to be able to know when the whales are betting without having to look at all the small bets.

Is there a verifier available for the site? I know they provide the code they use and all, but its hard for a non technical person to use the code only to verify. Is there a verifier, that allows me to plug in the seed info and see the rolls?
Appreciate any help.

You are confusing what we are talking about with a multisignature.

Signing a wallet just proves that you are the one with that priv key and a multisignature address means you hold a part of the key.

I guess I don't understand co-signing then. Would the cold wallet co-signer approve every large withdrawal directly to player's address? I thought that funds go from cold wallet to hot wallet if needed and are withdrawn from the hot wallet. I can see how co-signing can ensure that the cold wallet balance roughly corresponds to bankroll and the owners don't just take the coins and run, but I don't see how it could prevent the site from cheating its players by bet manipulation or cheating its investors by playing against the house.

The only reason I can think of to lie would be if the ninja guys came to me and said they had sold all the invested coins and bribed me to pretend that they still had control of them.


There would be no reason for me to keep a record of the addresses after confirming the balances.

I could run a web service that does exactly that. Allows any site operator to provide a list of addresses and signed messages (same message for each address), verifies the signatures, sums the balances, rounds the balance according to site operator's rules, then forgets everything except for the message and the total, and publishes that.

Then anyone could see a list of messages and balances, without being able to know what addresses the coins are held at.

I guess there's the problem that a rogue site operator could pay a big coin holder to sign a message on their behalf. In fact that probably makes the whole exercise worthless. I'm sure it wouldn't be hard to find someone willing to move 2100 BTC into a new address, sign a message "these coins belong to dice.ninja", wait for the web service to check the balance, then move them back offline - for a fee. So getting a list of addresses whose balances sum to the right amount doesn't really prove anything. That's why we used a single "cold wallet" address at JD, so investors could be sure I wasn't doing anything weird with their coins.

If it was cosigned, JoeMattie would have been paid out. And DB wouldn't have able to just move the funds to where ever they wanted.
And to BayAreaCoin, I know dooglus isn't cosigning. I just mean, if dooglus had cosigned DB's funds, then it would have been good.

Not common sense, but should be standard procedure.  Something like this would have been have solved the problem because now people are going to rely on this site to mix their coins when in reality the site owners would toss them under a bus in a instant if they were looking at prison time. (Easy to throw someone under the bus who you don't know to save your ass generally for the computer crowd.)

People should rely on themselves to protect themselves.


Dooglus isn't "cosigning" anything.  He is simply verifying that it is in a address that is controlled by at least the Dice.ninja fellas.  This will not protect your money.

I'm not so sure about that last part. With the way DB were manipulating bets I think they would have been able to hurt a lot of players and investors even if the cold wallet was co-signed.

What if coinbase/government/some_other_evil compels you to disclose the signed addresses?

Technically it's much safer to just have a BIG RED BOLD message on the withdrawal screen: Don't withdraw to Coinbase or some other entity that frowns upon gambling. That's common sense anyway, isn't it?

This is a great solution.  I wished dooglus was cosigning DB's funds as well. Would have saved a lot of people from losing money.

This is a common-sense solution, but why not distribute the point-of-risk and use two independent auditors supplied with the same information? This way, even if someone doesn't trust dooglus for some reason (conflict of interest because he has investments? idk) they can refer to the second audit to verify the information.

Personally I do trust dooglus but when you're dealing with bitcoin you can't have too much redundancy!

(Just my 2 satoshi)

Totally agree with this and I recommend that to DMF (or whatever his name is) days ago.

I think that would be best and safest for everyone.  Provided Doog isn't a nark! <3

How about this as a compromise?

* Site owners send me a list of "cold wallet" addresses, along with a series of signed messages, one per address, saying "dice.ninja cold storage address".

* I verify the balance, round it down to the next multiple of 100 to prevent anyone determining the addresses, and publish the balance.

* Then if you trust me, you can trust that the coins are still controlled by dice.ninja without government spies or their agents being able to track the coins.

That seems to solve both problems (proof of solvency, coinbase snooping) and adds just one problem, that you need to trust me not to lie.

For days? I just talked to one of them a few hours ago

Well to be honest owners were in a few hours ago.

Cold wallet is now 0 and funds are on the move.

Owners have been MIA for days in chat and posting here... seems a bit weird for your site to break into the positive and not post on your topic or in your troll box??

Edit:

Ah i see them in chat. My bad!

Site breaks even on the same day funds aren't provable still seems a little funny!  I don't recall any gamblers who play 82.5% super high stakes either off the top of my head.

I don't know of a place.

I've been making a note of the stats for myself each morning:

                                bets     B         L     invested       B              L   profit        B            L      wagered          B              L
                                --------------------     -------------------------------   ----------------------------      ---------------------------------
Mon Aug 25 10:10:05 PDT 2014    B     92474  2644242     I    91.23318102  2238.47739259   P    3.85777050  53.88309915      W      88.91063434   689.14192050
Tue Aug 26 09:44:42 PDT 2014    B    111029  2644446     I   155.09449948  5238.49082651   P    5.54970346  63.60343254      W    1089.08008772   728.95196120
Wed Aug 27 11:08:25 PDT 2014    B    129962  2738558     I   218.52571026  5236.70357660   P  -34.06540937  61.81618263      W    1394.30963653   760.72617236
Thu Aug 28 14:41:56 PDT 2014    B    137470  3575036     I   220.01026861  5236.24813698   P  -33.37009117  61.93179352      W    1401.35065182   770.41331215
Fri Aug 29 10:35:49 PDT 2014    B    150859  3615380     I   218.76343417  5226.73178913   P  -33.91920695  63.36149265      W    1407.06488711   848.17529004
Sat Aug 30 08:44:37 PDT 2014    B    171986  3617557     I   219.95797796 10244.51537888   P  -33.49667634  69.12705785      W    1409.37925390   862.27978065
Sun Aug 31 07:30:47 PDT 2014    B    183732  3640655     I   241.74890428 10232.76720154   P  -10.12954465  70.42379832      W    2108.77531366   870.19676137
Mon Sep  1 07:37:17 PDT 2014    B    258548  3712247     I   265.77224920 10231.30273647   P    1.29410226 100.77047506      W    2294.46132516  1361.44285924
Tue Sep  2 09:00:28 PDT 2014    B    330518  4042396     I   255.36077974 10221.99992108   P    0.64524376 102.03259418      W    2297.35945110  1389.75206553
Wed Sep  3 07:09:06 PDT 2014    B    377350  4088398     I   258.27218393 10246.32721406   P    1.29077505 105.19856947      W    2302.63622736  1421.41090774
Thu Sep  4 08:06:33 PDT 2014    B    468538  4089067     I   258.41006654 10249.91591419   P    0.43473142 108.78726780      W    2307.17582299  1435.85347178
Fri Sep  5 08:40:14 PDT 2014    B    643378  4094181     I   257.70837991 10248.87420062   P    2.71265918 107.74146973      W    6903.37722258  1439.12006055
Sat Sep  6 10:11:37 PDT 2014    B    850854  4126713     I   341.61305290 10254.44743964   P  -16.07683501 113.31463278      W    7090.92352204  1450.98147195
Sun Sep  7 07:42:13 PDT 2014    B    970488  4168024     I   342.06743327 10256.27197150   P  -15.63090506 115.13916464      W    7095.11874128  1460.81965824
Mon Sep  8 08:12:39 PDT 2014    B   1061442  4758947     I   388.04856147 10267.11295405   P  -15.69349149 116.36365800      W    7100.20693319  1479.49909646
Tue Sep  9 09:17:01 PDT 2014    B   1132705  5011533     I   392.72540692 10267.71789292   P  -15.41404593 116.96858541      W    7111.70657950  1519.74684068
Wed Sep 10 20:54:50 PDT 2014    B   1259616  5411664     I   397.39895907 10269.61505175   P  -16.08131264 124.30635697      W    7133.33573202  1616.40604208
Thu Sep 11 10:18:27 PDT 2014    B   1271493  5634082     I   397.25948254 10269.56658011   P  -14.95283223 123.90418689      W    7137.83348905  1621.39853935
Fri Sep 12 10:10:38 PDT 2014    B   1296150  5634970     I   397.28228451 10273.61399827   P  -14.90821757 126.69587884      W    7140.37622709  1635.89829110
Sat Sep 13 08:02:04 PDT 2014    B   1476326  5637085     I   658.46096551 10264.22364167   P    2.17030096 117.30552224      W    7363.40990165  1765.76198810
Sat Sep 13 08:28:02 PDT 2014    B   1480964  5637085     I   656.68077697 10264.22364167   P    1.17052398 117.30552224      W    7370.75352192  1765.76198810
Sun Sep 14 09:42:46 PDT 2014    B   1878611  5637085     I   675.54881161 10264.22364167   P    5.01675825 117.30552224      W    7540.17303726  1765.76198810
Mon Sep 15 08:22:19 PDT 2014    B   2206652  5639921     I   704.80957756 10266.31127168   P    6.06998678 120.30209192      W    7586.86001656  1796.16254260
Tue Sep 16 11:42:43 PDT 2014    B   2519334  5660734     I   700.76738835 10275.82121107   P  -84.88089333 124.81216819      W    8343.71240885  2746.06845017
Wed Sep 17 07:43:46 PDT 2014    B   2871827  5660746     I   815.62025253 10275.81721107   P  -76.96281380 124.80816819      W    8528.13848402  2746.18845017
Wed Sep 17 16:58:52 PDT 2014    B   3083523  5660746     I   818.85102441 10275.81721107   P  -76.66519297 124.80816819      W    8567.72784581  2746.18845017
Thu Sep 18 07:30:56 PDT 2014    B   3205818  5664568     I   916.14486276 10267.52000201   P  -79.03172957 117.51384480      W    8675.53595161  3269.93419518
Fri Sep 19 07:30:58 PDT 2014    B   3431938  5672873     I   899.21280928 10270.97488106   P -212.42131803 127.78106423      W   12750.33999041  4031.84028887
Sat Sep 20 09:21:29 PDT 2014    B   3979749  5676928     I   846.06139442 10128.40296061   P -300.47086962 -14.79085622      W   14272.63759739  5657.84230228
Sun Sep 21 09:48:23 PDT 2014    B   4373748  5700209     I  1293.34565320 10135.70976182   P -349.97270997  -7.48404575      W   18603.70801943  5838.22994419
Mon Sep 22 11:05:03 PDT 2014    B   4464326  5700805     I  1414.03236080 10135.25833299   P -330.27269928  -7.93547458      W   23076.74090316  5850.74693059
Tue Sep 23 10:43:32 PDT 2014    B   4547236  5709151     I  1367.78090749 10154.46664399   P -358.98075130  11.27283642      W   28047.97312239  6220.49715423
Wed Sep 24 10:23:04 PDT 2014    B   4633822  5712832     I  1388.72041319 10176.56134315   P -360.85452392  33.36746394      W   28550.57716458  6360.50196572
Thu Sep 25 11:35:13 PDT 2014    B   4890688  5715533     I  1362.70308208 10178.99480691   P -335.29669246  35.80092754      W   28940.59970218  6377.45163038
Fri Sep 26 10:42:49 PDT 2014    B   5488705  5719663     I  1398.49265492 10176.96355102   P -342.91763053  38.81908875      W   34883.66035018  6426.00450993
Sat Sep 27 08:53:56 PDT 2014    B   5773099  5720721     I  1656.50972914 10179.11415477   P -200.74750903  40.96969250      W   40684.24113628  6436.96788439
Sun Sep 28 08:04:02 PDT 2014    B   5911610  5724383     I  1641.77097910 10606.56310666   P -198.70878703  48.07129200      W   40823.09150682  6501.19056055
Mon Sep 29 08:18:52 PDT 2014    B   5947643  5729034     I  1626.51733724 10609.14860360   P -198.31958794  52.47083385      W   40882.99909714  6536.28201185
Tue Sep 30 11:14:20 PDT 2014    B   6132013  5731938     I  1575.88235576 10613.89365749   P -198.19918778  57.21588774      W   40959.73707269  6621.58340173
Wed Oct  1 09:26:58 PDT 2014    B   6353066  5742722     I  1583.26997034 10619.83752820   P -188.95867348  63.15974651      W   41716.67586958  6667.50842700
Thu Oct  2 11:09:44 PDT 2014    B   6759897  5756374     I  1591.72729930 10526.11769240   P -201.93093169 -32.37414814      W   43056.59629563  8848.94353557
Fri Oct  3 12:36:54 PDT 2014    B   8050330  5771213     I  1607.35546127 10641.81862229   P -113.24463304 105.19429245      W   45613.37947782 10468.61668474
Sat Oct  4 10:53:46 PDT 2014    B   9301823  5771590     I  1615.26774154 10642.32528153   P -107.36297759 105.70095169      W   45696.77983293 10470.04284168
Sun Oct  5 10:05:53 PDT 2014    B   9899788  5778696     I  1872.60089904 10654.95820167   P -184.45509166 118.33387183      W   47357.96508197 10540.42298377
Mon Oct  6 10:34:59 PDT 2014    B  10579530  5789781     I  1876.55708870 10649.50628486   P -171.36972864 112.75353015      W   47937.58901771 10568.23199935
Tue Oct  7 10:09:24 PDT 2014    B  10688793  6837982     I  1812.91227896 20756.61295564   P -168.77252695 219.86236237      W   47982.89912195 13440.03402230
Wed Oct  8 09:31:44 PDT 2014    B  10758431  6857429     I  2356.84594753 20809.72264655   P  153.87813203 273.07321802      W   91532.15962573 13887.45277897

Hey T04D, what's up with the sig campaign? Did it only go for 1 cycle and it was just never announced that it would only go for 1 cycle? Or what?