Topic: Discussion: "Cybersecurity and Privacy" board + Poll (request v1) - page 5. (Read 3330 times)

I wouldn't say so. Similar to what joker says, I suppose that the default interpretation of 'security' would be different for everyone. You're right, there would be interesting topics on this subject to do with backups, seeds, etc. I think they wouldn't be reported as off-topic but instead moved to the Wallets board as they relate to this most, and most posts about this already reside there. Aside from protecting your seed/private keys, there is not much else that is actually related to Bitcoin in terms of physical security that isn't wildly off topic in my opinion, and all of these topics would probably fit better in the Wallets board than they would in the 'cybersecurity' board.

If we welcome physical security posts generally with the intention that it will relate to bitcoin, I believe it would open up the avenue for people to talk about things like personal/home surveillance, setting up these tools, protecting yourself in the street, etc. Not that there is anything wrong with it, but again, I feel that it is wildly off topic. The board name would kind of allow it too...since the board will be generally named 'security and privacy'.

TLDR: Cybersecurity links to bitcoin because low cybersecurity = more risk to your coins. Privacy is in line with Bitcoin ethos. Physical security? It doesn't really fit outside of protecting offline storage/keys/seeds, all of which can be discussed in the Wallets board.

I think 'digital' is implied when talking about 'security' in the context of privacy and Bitcoin. There may be one or two interesting topic ideas about e.g. ways to physically secure seed phrase backups against thefts or something, and I wouldn't report them as off-topic, even if the board was called 'cybersecurity', to be honest.
So, both names are fine for me.

The point is that those who cannot behave safely in their daily lives are unlikely to act safely online.

Now, I don't think it makes sense to mix things up either. This is an online forum and what you are supposed to do is help people to behave safely online.

Also, physical security changes a lot from country to country and city to city. A person's sense of physical security in New York must be different from one in Barcelona. What is physically safe in Texas can be very different in Maimi.

Therefore, the focus should not be on physical security, which is very variable but on online security, which is the same worldwide.

I'll be sure to give it another try at another stage!

I don't fully agree with Security and Privacy. I understand the point and that physical security is still important...should we really want to deviate away from a specific focus on digital security, and introduce physical security to be mixed in with this board though? It feels like it would become a bit of a wide-range mess after some time. I feel like being physically secure is more subjective anyway...it's not difficult/is mostly common sense to maximize physical security in comparison to keeping a computer system safe in this day and age, in my opinion.

Maybe he's on holiday so wait for a week or so and "Quote" the PM to him again in another reply. I had to do that like twice in order to get bitcoincleanup.com a factoid.


I also agree that the name of the board should be "Security and Privacy" and not cybersecurity, so long as the topic has something at least marginally to do with crypto.

I suppose physical protection of backups or software relating to Bitcoin could go in the wallets section. Security offline is a bit more about common sense, and would open up discussion to things that might not be entirely relevant. All of a sudden you will have a board with too-broad of a topic range. If it's limited to cybersecurity and privacy, at least these fit in the realms of "digital"/"cyber". Talking about using devices i.e anything that involves "cyber"/"digital" devices to store backups and protecting these, that's fine, as at least there's a digital element involved, or in other words there is a technical level that can be taught. Protecting a paper wallet from physical intrusion on the other hand, that can go in the wallet section (as it already does). That's my 2 cents anyway.


Since it would be in the Other category, we shouldn't limit posts about security/privacy just to Bitcoin/altcoins. Both are vital aspects of being safe online, being safe online should be the ultimate goal rather than topics strictly related to keeping your coins safe. The symptom of being safe online means that your coins should be safe too.


Right. We shouldn't be saying "there are other places to discuss this" as a reason not to introduce the board anyway. Like you said, we like it here; we like the format of the forum, the people, and their brains!

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So far, no response from theymos unfortunately guys. I guess no news can sometimes be good news though! Maybe it's in the works 

If it's within the main Bitcoin sections, then it shouldn't be a problem. Since, the section it's in, takes precedence. Although, I'd agree, cybersecurity is actually limiting the threads that could pop up. Security & Privacy is just much better, since there's also physical security, and we'll forever be plagued with privacy issues. For example, there's a thread out there investigating companies for selling data, and this sort of thing will always be a threat. There could be companies looking to sell a product, but ultimately catering their business to collect data on Bitcoin users.

So, there's a ton of possibilities if you name it "Security & Privacy" or something along those lines, but ultimately it's in the main Bitcoin section. Therefore, should be limited to Bitcoin related topics. Physical protection of backups, installing software related to Bitcoin, and splitting your wallet up into multiple virtual machines or physical devices all come to mind.

There is no doubt it's well on the broad side but if it's kept to bitcoin/altcoin relevant points I don't see any harm in it. Also very frequently privacy and security go hand in hand, as for most users security without privacy/obscurity isn't attainable.
Looking at the more positive side of things, there are a lot of people on here who are happy to share and have some very teachable moments.

I'd like to post ideas / thoughts and discussion about security-related topics relating to Bitcoin wallets (hardware & software) and nodes, attack vectors, attacker models, advantages & disadvantages of certain options and such. Of course, I can go to https://security.stackexchange.com .. but I like it here!
That place is also more about questions & answers, no real place for discussion. And obviously it is much broader (not tied to Bitcoin / cryptocurrency)..

I would concur, though it's hard when it would be in the same section as Politics & Society...I don't think there is a topic/board that could ever be as broad as that. I guess another way to put cybersecurity the strength of your infrastructure/system on a network and operating system level. Privacy is the next layer after the network layer. Things become a little harder to understand on the cybersecurity layer though that is one of the main points for it to be included.

While privacy prevents data exploitation, prying eyes etc, it's not enough/almost redundant for one to just be private. One should be at least to the minimal standard, secure as well. Security prevents things like losing funds, accounts being hacked, even prying eyes that privacy measures otherwise wouldn't cover.

My concern is that "cybersecurity" is far too broad for Bitcointalk, there must be better places to find this information. "Privacy", however, is (in my opinion) severely underrated.

Great to hear another so-far unmentioned sector that is directly related to Bitcoin and could benefit from this board.

As of this message, a PM was just sent to Theymos requesting a review and some feedback!

Let's hope for this idea to become a reality I am excited to start posting there!

I haven't been overly active on here outside my main project thread in a while but this is an initiative I am happy to support. I've been in education for ages and would be happy to help condense some of the threads on best practices and attack vectors, particularly on anything that applies more or less across btccodebase altcoins as well into doodle vids or other simplified media should this get approved.
This is also something that would add immense value to a lot of speculative mining communities as they are frequently the low hanging fruit to get targeted.

You are all very modest. Individual support grows the collective support. The more, the merrier! I would not say it means nothing and from an outside perspective. I'd even say some of you may be under estimating yourselves, as "nothing" in a collective effort is a definite under estimation and arguably no one is little! In my opinion anyway 

I'll be sending the thread to theymos soon as it seems input has reduced significantly and there does not seem to be new feedback. Let's hope for the best!

Not that this is too important, but:
JayJuanGee loved your post and analysis. thank you for the input! To add to the OP, your post is so long and I am not sure what to snip or whether or not to count anything as personal support. So I'll just leave it be for the time being but included a link to input.
LoyceV I suppose not being against it is not necessarily supporting it either, so I just left that quote in the section it was.

Thanks for the posts guys.


Added to OP, thank you!

IMO this topic definitely should also cover trade-off between security, privacy and convenience.


I hereby announce that i support creation of "Cybersecurity and Privacy" board on bitcointalk.org.

One thing is for sure, it worked! All that's missing is ETFBitcoin saying something...  


Thank you for quoting me, but among all these people, I am the least likely to have influence.  
But I got the idea. The idea you want to convey is that several users, in some way known, would appreciate this type of board.



EDIT
I remembered a topic I created some time ago, which might fit into this category:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/tips-ways-to-protect-recovery-phrase-mnemonic-5392035

If you find it appropriate, it's one more for the list. (I pass the ad.)

loyce and jjg, you two saved me a bunch of typing, thanks! as i too also will merit posts i may not agree with as long as the post is presented well.

i do support a security board though and would spend time there. but my support means nothing lol

Awesome post. Sorry if it came across as forcing your hand  I made the title more appropriate after LoyceV mentioned it:

I won't respond to the whole post (I like the train of thought though) but I will answer this part. I think that whether it is needed or not depends on the user. I am sure a lot of users are vulnerable while a minority would be considered adequately secure. I think this minority could help tip the scale, at least for this community. So I guess to an extent, it is needed? I suppose only those who feel/know they are secure would say otherwise.

I am not sure if you are forcing my hand, but many folks already likely realize that I have difficulties committing to certain kinds of things, and from my perspective sending merits does not necessarily indicate support (nor understanding of the ideas being discussed), even though for me, I send merits for posts that either seem to raise interesting points or maybe I believe that a certain amount of work/effort went into constructing a post (but who knows with ChatBots these days?), but I don't necessarily agree with or support the posts that I merit, merely because I merited them.

I will say that substantively I am getting more and more won over by the idea of having some kind of separation and categorization of security/privacy type issues, and part of the reason for my inclination towards supporting such ideas in general is that it does seem that some security/privacy separation/categorization may well stimulate better thoughts into those areas to make some of these concerns more presentable and user-friendly to normies (and even for more technologically-oriented folks to present their ideas in more normie-friendly ways.. not sure if that would be an argument for better organizing/separation or just keeping the security/privacy topics intermingled through the forum?) - even though frequently security/privacy seems to overlap with a vast number of topics already, so it is not like security and privacy is not being discussed..

And, of course the direction of the poll of members at the top of the thread seems to show that members are not really against it, and no one seems to really be arguing against it.. but does that lack of argument against it mean that it is needed or preferred to have it incorporated?  

I have not even thought through the topic well enough beyond just what I believe to be common sense and off the top of my head considerations that the main argument against it could be that there could be some concerns that some security/privacy comes through obscurity of the methods and those who choose to jeopardize security/privacy (the hackers) could be benefited from the existence of such organizing of privacy/security categories, so in some sense we (normies) can be advantaged when we don't say how we are storing our cornz or how we are maintaining our privacy (to the extent that we really are accomplishing any of that very well?).... so in some sense, I am not really opposed to the ideas of security/privacy through obscurity nor ideas that if it is not broke, then why fix it?..

...but at the same time, I appreciate that I may well not realize what I am missing in terms of aspects of the organizing of information on the forum until I see it (and sometimes I get scared or rolled over by some of the technological area of discussions, even though I try to have some participation in those areas and consider and understand some of those kinds of discussions too, to the extent that I might be able to grasp some of the core ideas being shared).. so in the overall sense of this topic, I don't even have strong feelings (even though I did vote "yes" in the poll.. of still a relatively small number of folks in the forum, really), even while I had been feeling (in the one month existence of this thread) that I should send merits to many of the seemingly brilliant (or otherwise provocative) discussions/posts taking place in this thread.


How come LoyceV (you fuck) always says things better than this here cat?   hahahaha

Ah, I mean in the eyes of theymos...Your name on top of the fantastic support list already would be a nice cherry on the sundae to potentially help bring this to life! In reply to what you said though, in no way should that list sway a forum members' opinion. It's purely there to show the great support so far and to help the final decision when/if that time comes.