Sort of along the same lines, technically calculating pi is illegal. Since it contains all finite bitstrings
Um, what makes you say that? I'm pretty sure it's untrue. 
Topic: Do NOT declare that you have ever owned bitcoins - page 2. (Read 6538 times)
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No one can ever accurately declare they've ever owned bitcoins, but bitcoins cannot be owned. I will declare that I have owned numerous encryption keys, though I cannot remember which or what relevance they had.
Fiat's days are numbered along with those that created the world we live in today
Urm,
If they ever made it illegal, send your bitcoins through a shared wallet to another wallet you own (or a trusted exchange), declare that you gave them away when they were made illegal (if ever asked) and continue to spend your bitcoins ....
but now, any country that decides to tax bitcoins gets a massive one up on the country that made it illegal .. hence why this will never happen, any country declaring it illegal to trade in bitcoin is severely shooting itself in own foot.
If they ever made it illegal, send your bitcoins through a shared wallet to another wallet you own (or a trusted exchange), declare that you gave them away when they were made illegal (if ever asked) and continue to spend your bitcoins ....
but now, any country that decides to tax bitcoins gets a massive one up on the country that made it illegal .. hence why this will never happen, any country declaring it illegal to trade in bitcoin is severely shooting itself in own foot.
There is a very simple solution to all of these: Remove all fiat money from BTC exchanges.
What do u expect to exchange bitcoins for in this case?
Anything except fiat money.
Bitcoin anonymity is a myth. Take satoshi for example, the guy has millions but can't be spending to "save his life"...
There is a very simple solution to all of these: Remove all fiat money from BTC exchanges.
What do u expect to exchange bitcoins for in this case?
If you thought bank transfers took forever....
There is a very simple solution to all of these: Remove all fiat money from BTC exchanges.
What do u expect to exchange bitcoins for in this case?
There is a very simple solution to all of these: Remove all fiat money from BTC exchanges.
The biggest problem governments will have with bitcoin is the anonymity involved in transactions. They will point to money laundering and criminals using it as an untraceable medium of wealth as the reason to shut it down. Without that they won't have leg to stand on in a court of law. You'd think there aren't any real money laundering operations to warrant gov scrutiny.
People should pay taxes on bitcoins. It's probably the only thing that can prevent a complete shutdown.
Wasn't there a ruling by FinCen not too long ago stating something to the effect of declaring what is converted back to fiat for capital gains purposes, meaning it's semi-legit in the US?
I've read that too, they can only tax you if you convert bitcoins to fiat currency.
There are a lot of threads about taxation and FinCEN regulation on this forum. Now you can pay taxes, register yourself as Money Service Business (MSB) and sleep well, but... The state won't stop and will continue to strangle Bitcoin. One day it will make Bitcoin illegal.
Now the state collects data who uses Bitcoin, so in the future (when Bitcoin becomes illegal) they'll pay very close attention to those who declared that they "touched" bitcoins. It's a well known trick:
1. Pretend you are just going to regulate something.
2. Collect data about users.
3. Make it illegal.
4. Spy the users.
5. Prosecute those who violate the law.
Keep this in mind...
Now the state collects data who uses Bitcoin, so in the future (when Bitcoin becomes illegal) they'll pay very close attention to those who declared that they "touched" bitcoins. It's a well known trick:
1. Pretend you are just going to regulate something.
2. Collect data about users.
3. Make it illegal.
4. Spy the users.
5. Prosecute those who violate the law.
Keep this in mind...
I've put a provision in my will for my Bitcoin. But then I see no way at all that possession of Bitcoin could ever be made illegal.
you guys seriously need to atleast read the regulations and know how fincen/sec/fsa work.. they are not pro-active. they are reactive.
meaning if they get a complaint then they will act. if when acting they find something iffy, they will enforce.
so as long as you learn the rules and use them wisely to your advantage, so that if EG
a scammer tries to do a charge back, which triggers the banks to internally investigate and ask you questions. and you give them satisfactory information. they wont then make a SARS report to then cause fincen/FSA/SEC to come looking at you in detail.
fincen rules are for financial institutions to do internal investigations first. and only file a SARS report if the institutions own investigations dont end in complete satisfaction.
so the simple solution is to not lie, not hide details. comply with the rules and the snowball of headaches does not start rolling. it stops early on and you get to continue with business.
meaning if they get a complaint then they will act. if when acting they find something iffy, they will enforce.
so as long as you learn the rules and use them wisely to your advantage, so that if EG
a scammer tries to do a charge back, which triggers the banks to internally investigate and ask you questions. and you give them satisfactory information. they wont then make a SARS report to then cause fincen/FSA/SEC to come looking at you in detail.
fincen rules are for financial institutions to do internal investigations first. and only file a SARS report if the institutions own investigations dont end in complete satisfaction.
so the simple solution is to not lie, not hide details. comply with the rules and the snowball of headaches does not start rolling. it stops early on and you get to continue with business.
Hey, here is ur other quote:
banks are not pulling the rugs from under exchanges.
exchanges dont even bother making rugs.. they just stand on the cold floor.
meaning they dont bother reading the regulations, getting authorised, keeping records or following any of the rules of handling fiat.
its like a majority of these exchanges are run by amateurs that have no previous experience in finance.
the community needs to up its game. its not difficult.
but being lazy by ignoring the laws and then blaming the regulators like its a total surprise is just reasons why i see the half assed attempts of making exchanges always fail.
exchanges dont even bother making rugs.. they just stand on the cold floor.
meaning they dont bother reading the regulations, getting authorised, keeping records or following any of the rules of handling fiat.
its like a majority of these exchanges are run by amateurs that have no previous experience in finance.
the community needs to up its game. its not difficult.
but being lazy by ignoring the laws and then blaming the regulators like its a total surprise is just reasons why i see the half assed attempts of making exchanges always fail.
Wild guess, u work for government. Am I right, Mr. Smith?
Sort of along the same lines, technically calculating pi is illegal. Since it contains all finite bitstrings doing so would break every single ip law in existence all at the same time. You would be a child pornographer and a media pirate and the owner of the plans to create a nuclear weapon. So anyone who attempts to calculate pi for research purposes puts themselves in danger of spending the rest of their life in prison.
Yes... all things digital risk going into those kinds of issues. Our examples are extreme and therefore are perhaps easily dismissed, but the underlying issues are very real, I think. Laws and customs designed for dirtspace/meatspace do not work well in cyber/digital space - sort of like the tensions between Newtonian and quantum physics.
i just think its funny in how it illustrates the absurdity of the idea of owning an idea. which i own by the way so back off!
Delicious: If I own your genes and you own the idea of gene ownership, then... a tree falls in the forest, or something.
Anyway, rigorously on topic, I now solemnly do not declare that I have ever owned BTC.
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If someone has owned SolidCoins, can they declare that they have owned them to get a tax refund instead?
(or would that be considered supporting terrorism since SolidCoin infringes on copyrights?)
(or would that be considered supporting terrorism since SolidCoin infringes on copyrights?)
Sort of along the same lines, technically calculating pi is illegal. Since it contains all finite bitstrings doing so would break every single ip law in existence all at the same time. You would be a child pornographer and a media pirate and the owner of the plans to create a nuclear weapon. So anyone who attempts to calculate pi for research purposes puts themselves in danger of spending the rest of their life in prison.
Yes... all things digital risk going into those kinds of issues. Our examples are extreme and therefore are perhaps easily dismissed, but the underlying issues are very real, I think. Laws and customs designed for dirtspace/meatspace do not work well in cyber/digital space - sort of like the tensions between Newtonian and quantum physics.
i just think its funny in how it illustrates the absurdity of the idea of owning an idea. which i own by the way so back off!
Sort of along the same lines, technically calculating pi is illegal. Since it contains all finite bitstrings doing so would break every single ip law in existence all at the same time. You would be a child pornographer and a media pirate and the owner of the plans to create a nuclear weapon. So anyone who attempts to calculate pi for research purposes puts themselves in danger of spending the rest of their life in prison.
Yes... all things digital risk going into those kinds of issues. Our examples are extreme and therefore are perhaps easily dismissed, but the underlying issues are very real, I think. Laws and customs designed for dirtspace/meatspace do not work well in cyber/digital space - sort of like the tensions between Newtonian and quantum physics.
No one owns Bitcoins. Bitcoins are represented n the blockchain which is distributed free of charge to anyone willing to download it.
Some may claim ownership of private keys, however.
Some may claim ownership of private keys, however.
The implications of this kind of issue fascinate me.
For example, a private key is ultimately a string of digits - a number. People can now own such numbers, it seems, and it is potentially a crime for me to know "your" number or you to know "mine". The simple act of counting incrementally 1-2-3... can eventually make us all criminals - tax-dodging criminals at that. (Hehe - don't you dare say THAT number - it's mine, all mine - muhaaaa).
Yeah, that's why IP is stupid.
No one owns Bitcoins. Bitcoins are represented n the blockchain which is distributed free of charge to anyone willing to download it.
Some may claim ownership of private keys, however.
Some may claim ownership of private keys, however.
The implications of this kind of issue fascinate me.
For example, a private key is ultimately a string of digits - a number. People can now own such numbers, it seems, and it is potentially a crime for me to know "your" number or you to know "mine". The simple act of counting incrementally 1-2-3... can eventually make us all criminals - tax-dodging criminals at that. (Hehe - don't you dare say THAT number - it's mine, all mine - muhaaaa).
Furthermore, governments want to tax people because they have access to some of these numbers, through tax rules not yet determined (but I'll go out on a limb and predict they will be clumsy and invasive).
If you have other numbers in your possession - binary strings constituting data governments don't approve of when processed by some algorithm (such as a jpg image in a viewer) - then they might incarcerate you or worse. You might have in your possession a string, meaningless to you, that when processed by the State's algorithm indicated that you were guilty of horrible offenses - what you thought was your old tax return might turn out to generate a damning graphic image when seen through some arbitrary viewer after some arbitrary decompression process at some arbitrary resolution.
Complicated things, numbers. Hard to imagine any politicians or bureaucrats thinking these issues through very deeply.
What would they do if some day a number turned out to work as a private key representing, say, a trillion fiat-bucks worth of alt-coin, and happened also to play some national anthem when used as input to a music program and/or showed a lewd image when used as input to a viewer program and/or gave a recipe for making WMDs when used as input to a word processor? Would they tax you, salute you, disgrace you or send you to Gitmo? Improbable, of course, but not impossible and there is lots of potential for delicious paradox without resorting to this level of reductio.
you guys seriously need to atleast read the regulations and know how fincen/sec/fsa work.. they are not pro-active. they are reactive.
meaning if they get a complaint then they will act. if when acting they find something iffy, they will enforce.
so as long as you learn the rules and use them wisely to your advantage, so that if EG
a scammer tries to do a charge back, which triggers the banks to internally investigate and ask you questions. and you give them satisfactory information. they wont then make a SARS report to then cause fincen/FSA/SEC to come looking at you in detail.
fincen rules are for financial institutions to do internal investigations first. and only file a SARS report if the institutions own investigations dont end in complete satisfaction.
so the simple solution is to not lie, not hide details. comply with the rules and the snowball of headaches does not start rolling. it stops early on and you get to continue with business.
meaning if they get a complaint then they will act. if when acting they find something iffy, they will enforce.
so as long as you learn the rules and use them wisely to your advantage, so that if EG
a scammer tries to do a charge back, which triggers the banks to internally investigate and ask you questions. and you give them satisfactory information. they wont then make a SARS report to then cause fincen/FSA/SEC to come looking at you in detail.
fincen rules are for financial institutions to do internal investigations first. and only file a SARS report if the institutions own investigations dont end in complete satisfaction.
so the simple solution is to not lie, not hide details. comply with the rules and the snowball of headaches does not start rolling. it stops early on and you get to continue with business.
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