Do we truly need cbdc when bitcoin already exist?

fuguebtc

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Quote from: Argoo on June 28, 2024, 12:05:58 AM

Quote from: fuguebtc on October 15, 2023, 08:11:58 AM

I think CBDC is something we cannot avoid whether we like it or not, so it is inevitable that we will be controlled more. I'm thinking the worst when cash disappears and all our transactions are done using CBDC. Our smallest transactions will be controlled by them.

Although many people say that paper cash may soon disappear from circulation, I do not believe it.

This discussion took place quite a while ago and I have to admit that at that time there was so much news about CBDCs spread that I believed that soon CBDCs would be released and cash would disappear. But so far I think you are right, CBDC is not going to be released anytime soon and cash is not going away anytime soon or I don't even think it will happen.
If I'm not mistaken, the Fed has also given its opinion on CBDC and according to them they still have no intention of creating it and eliminating USD. That suggests we won't see paper money disappear any time soon.

Quote from: BitGoba on June 28, 2024, 03:27:29 AM

Quote from: Argoo on June 28, 2024, 12:05:58 AM

Quote from: fuguebtc on October 15, 2023, 08:11:58 AM

I think CBDC is something we cannot avoid whether we like it or not, so it is inevitable that we will be controlled more. I'm thinking the worst when cash disappears and all our transactions are done using CBDC. Our smallest transactions will be controlled by them.

Although many people say that paper cash may soon disappear from circulation, I do not believe it. Cash in general is needed by both the state and people. After all, in order to make transactions with cash, you do not need the participation of banks or technical means. This is very convenient for small household transactions. But it is worth recognizing that their turnover is not cheap for the state. Therefore, the amount of cash will decrease over time. Cash also virtually cannot be tracked by the state and this is its absolute advantage over CBDC, which are completely under the control of the state.

The emergence of CBDC is a phenomenon of the times. They also have their advantages and disadvantages. For privacy and anonymity this is worse, but for the speed of large transactions over long distances involving large firms, CBDCs are very suitable.

Cash must be abolished because since the dollar became the world's reserve currency after World War II, so many dollars have been printed and circulated worldwide in Asia, Africa, Europe, South America, and Central America. There is a lot of cash in circulation. If people start spending that money, unprecedented hyperinflation and overnight loss of value will occur. Therefore, they will gradually limit cash purchases and phase it out to prevent hyperinflation.

If cash is abolished but if replaced by CBDC and the government remains in full control, there will be no change at all because CBDC is easier to print than cash. In addition, solving inflation does not just stop at printing money, we need to solve many different problems of the economy. Don't focus too much on the government printing money and think that this is the only cause of inflation.

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Quote from: Argoo on June 28, 2024, 12:05:58 AM

Quote from: fuguebtc on October 15, 2023, 08:11:58 AM

I think CBDC is something we cannot avoid whether we like it or not, so it is inevitable that we will be controlled more. I'm thinking the worst when cash disappears and all our transactions are done using CBDC. Our smallest transactions will be controlled by them.

Although many people say that paper cash may soon disappear from circulation, I do not believe it. Cash in general is needed by both the state and people. After all, in order to make transactions with cash, you do not need the participation of banks or technical means. This is very convenient for small household transactions. But it is worth recognizing that their turnover is not cheap for the state. Therefore, the amount of cash will decrease over time. Cash also virtually cannot be tracked by the state and this is its absolute advantage over CBDC, which are completely under the control of the state.

The emergence of CBDC is a phenomenon of the times. They also have their advantages and disadvantages. For privacy and anonymity this is worse, but for the speed of large transactions over long distances involving large firms, CBDCs are very suitable.

Cash must be abolished because since the dollar became the world's reserve currency after World War II, so many dollars have been printed and circulated worldwide in Asia, Africa, Europe, South America, and Central America. There is a lot of cash in circulation. If people start spending that money, unprecedented hyperinflation and overnight loss of value will occur. Therefore, they will gradually limit cash purchases and phase it out to prevent hyperinflation.

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Quote from: Hewlet on October 02, 2023, 11:06:18 PM

CBDC (central bank digital currency) are digital representation of a country's official currency managed and regulated by a central bank. The idea is to provide an alternative to digital cash allowing faster transactions and increasing financial accessibility.

Its centralized nature allows the government to directly issue currency to citizens at the whim of central banks

This obviously means that they can not offer the same level of autonomy or censorship resistance that bitcoin offers

The fact that its implementation can lead to potential surveillance and increase government control over finance is something to be worried about.

Considering the fact that bitcoin has earned an high level of trust, security and borderlessness from it user with an inherent monitory policy brings the big question;

Do we really need cbdc now?

CBDC is a currency that governments will be able to create even more easily by entering figures into the system. Printing paper money still costs something, but CBDC will be an even more convenient form of money for printing, which likely leads to higher inflation and reduced purchasing power. To potentially halt inflation, they could limit consumption or implement programmed money—for instance, money that expires after just one month if not spent, effectively erasing it from the system. They could also impose limits on purchases, such as allowing only 3 kg of beef and red meat per month or restricting fuel purchases to 100 gallons. They would determine how much you can spend and what you can buy.

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Quote from: fuguebtc on October 15, 2023, 08:11:58 AM

I think CBDC is something we cannot avoid whether we like it or not, so it is inevitable that we will be controlled more. I'm thinking the worst when cash disappears and all our transactions are done using CBDC. Our smallest transactions will be controlled by them.

Although many people say that paper cash may soon disappear from circulation, I do not believe it. Cash in general is needed by both the state and people. After all, in order to make transactions with cash, you do not need the participation of banks or technical means. This is very convenient for small household transactions. But it is worth recognizing that their turnover is not cheap for the state. Therefore, the amount of cash will decrease over time. Cash also virtually cannot be tracked by the state and this is its absolute advantage over CBDC, which are completely under the control of the state.

The emergence of CBDC is a phenomenon of the times. They also have their advantages and disadvantages. For privacy and anonymity this is worse, but for the speed of large transactions over long distances involving large firms, CBDCs are very suitable.

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Quote from: Antotena on October 03, 2023, 04:18:40 AM

CBDC is not related to bitcoin, I'm not sure if they have anything n common, if you have said stablecoins now and CBDC, then there are some similarities.

Bitcoin is a decentralized digital currency, by decentralization they don't have any middle man that control it's operation. The performance is based on peer-to-peer people around it's ecosystem, the network security is also dependent of the people around it.

CBDC is a stable digital currency that central banks like to issue, it is going to be control and manage by the central bank, it's affairs are not restricted by commercial banks, anyone can use it any where and anytime but they are regulated in a such a way that you can be restricted if you violate any rules of the CBDC, this is Hy it's not good to use it in the first place because it's not your key or your coins.

Stablecoin work in this manner. The difference between CBDC and stablecoins is that one is control by central banks and the other is controlled by group of people that form a company.

We that are not new here already know that but if there is any thing they have in common, that would be; CBDC also operates under the blockchain so we can still call it as a cryptocurrency.

However it's true that stable coins are not far from CBDC. For Christ sake they shouldn't bother on creating CBDC anymore. This is only an added waste like a meme coin/shitcoin. Nice comparison though between CBDC and stable coins. Many are for sure can learn with it. BTW, another difference of CBDC and stable coins is that there are also some stable coins who are decentralized. DAI is one popular decentralized stable coin that I know.

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Quote from: Silberman on October 10, 2023, 11:25:56 PM

Quote from: CryptoBuds on October 10, 2023, 10:37:54 PM

CBDC is another bad thing that the government is using to control us more and they have no good intentions at all. Bitcoin was created to help us reduce the control the government has over us, so it would be naive to think that CBDCs were created to help increase people's trust. With fiat, cash, we can still have some privacy but with CBDC, our privacy will end. The government can control your entire life, even the smallest things. So don't be happy when they release CBCD.

And that is the danger CBDCs represent, for decades governments have waged a war against cash with the excuse they are trying to reduce the crime rate, but their real goal is to eliminate cash so they can track everything you do with your money, and now they are trying to twist cryptocurrencies, which were supposed to be a tool for individual freedom, into a tool to control us even further, will they succeed? I hope not, but for that we will need people not only to adopt bitcoin but to do so while understanding its real goal.

As long as governments still control this world, CBDCs and fiat currencies will remain the main currencies in commodity exchange. Even as bitcoin becomes more popular, it will be difficult for us to escape their control, what we can do is rely on bitcoin to reduce their surveillance.

I think CBDC is something we cannot avoid whether we like it or not, so it is inevitable that we will be controlled more. I'm thinking the worst when cash disappears and all our transactions are done using CBDC. Our smallest transactions will be controlled by them.

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Quote from: GuruMarketing on October 10, 2023, 10:16:27 PM

CBDC concept isn't new and already in the circulation even in countries like China but do you really see CBDC as a threat to bitcoin?

Nah, it doesn't even has the ability to take down the paper money..,

From my thinking CBDC will not be that serious a threat to Bitcoin, because Bitcoin has stood so firmly in the crypto space and also in all markets that it will be difficult for anything to compete with. Everyone can see how the presence of many altcoins in the crypto space has entered the market to compete with Bitcoin, but all of them cannot fight Bitcoin and in fact Bitcoin can continue to grow with an increasing number of users every year.

So the presence of the CBDC concept will not be a threat at all to Bitcoin because the change is only in the usage model from physical money to digital money in a social environment where the value remains the same, while Bitcoin will continue to run as usual with the development of more and more users.

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Quote from: CryptoBuds on October 10, 2023, 10:37:54 PM

CBDC is another bad thing that the government is using to control us more and they have no good intentions at all. Bitcoin was created to help us reduce the control the government has over us, so it would be naive to think that CBDCs were created to help increase people's trust. With fiat, cash, we can still have some privacy but with CBDC, our privacy will end. The government can control your entire life, even the smallest things. So don't be happy when they release CBCD.

And that is the danger CBDCs represent, for decades governments have waged a war against cash with the excuse they are trying to reduce the crime rate, but their real goal is to eliminate cash so they can track everything you do with your money, and now they are trying to twist cryptocurrencies, which were supposed to be a tool for individual freedom, into a tool to control us even further, will they succeed? I hope not, but for that we will need people not only to adopt bitcoin but to do so while understanding its real goal.

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Quote from: Pejoh Asu on October 10, 2023, 10:05:42 PM

Quote from: Hewlet on October 02, 2023, 11:06:18 PM

CBDC (central bank digital currency) are digital representation of a country's official currency managed and regulated by a central bank. The idea is to provide an alternative to digital cash allowing faster transactions and increasing financial accessibility.

Its centralized nature allows the government to directly issue currency to citizens at the whim of central banks

This obviously means that they can not offer the same level of autonomy or censorship resistance that bitcoin offers

The fact that its implementation can lead to potential surveillance and increase government control over finance is something to be worried about.

Considering the fact that bitcoin has earned an high level of trust, security and borderlessness from it user with an inherent monitory policy brings the big question;

Do we really need cbdc now?

The thing that the government is afraid of is bitcoin and decentralization is becoming increasingly massive, CBDC is of course something that the government can offer to make it easy for the government to control financial circulation, of course we can't think that CBDC is a bad thing because finances must be able to be controlled so that people continue to trust increase.

CBDC is another bad thing that the government is using to control us more and they have no good intentions at all. Bitcoin was created to help us reduce the control the government has over us, so it would be naive to think that CBDCs were created to help increase people's trust. With fiat, cash, we can still have some privacy but with CBDC, our privacy will end. The government can control your entire life, even the smallest things. So don't be happy when they release CBCD.

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CBDC concept isn't new and already in the circulation even in countries like China but do you really see CBDC as a threat to bitcoin?

Nah, it doesn't even has the ability to take down the paper money..,

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Quote from: Cryptmuster on October 10, 2023, 02:41:38 AM

Quote from: kro55 on October 10, 2023, 12:29:20 AM

Why is bitcoin red flagged if CBDCs become popular when most countries only accept and legalize bitcoin as an asset and not a currency? Bitcoin is an asset, CBDC is still the main currency of the economy, so is there any competition between the two for the government to ban it again? Both are not created to compete with each other, they both have different use cases so it cannot be said that governments will seek to ban bitcoin once CBDCs become popular.

CBDC will perform the same function that fiat money currently performs, nothing will change for the consumer, but at the same time, governments will try to convince how much better CBDC is than Bitcoin. They will take some advantages, such as transaction speed, and perhaps fees, as a basis and will convince them that Bitcoin is already the past, and digital currencies are the future. Although the advantages of Bitcoin will be obvious to anyone who studies it.

As I said, bitcoin is an asset, not a payment method or currency, so comparing fees and transaction speeds would be meaningless. Furthermore, if they intentionally compare the two, it will only show their stupidity because even if they compare and explain, everyone will know that bitcoin is decentralized. That feature alone would be enough for bitcoin to beat a government CBDC, so I don't think the government would compare the two. As you said, CBCD is just a digital version of fiat, so let it continue the role of fiat money.

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Quote from: Hewlet on October 02, 2023, 11:06:18 PM

CBDC (central bank digital currency) are digital representation of a country's official currency managed and regulated by a central bank. The idea is to provide an alternative to digital cash allowing faster transactions and increasing financial accessibility.

Its centralized nature allows the government to directly issue currency to citizens at the whim of central banks

This obviously means that they can not offer the same level of autonomy or censorship resistance that bitcoin offers

The fact that its implementation can lead to potential surveillance and increase government control over finance is something to be worried about.

Considering the fact that bitcoin has earned an high level of trust, security and borderlessness from it user with an inherent monitory policy brings the big question;

Do we really need cbdc now?

The thing that the government is afraid of is bitcoin and decentralization is becoming increasingly massive, CBDC is of course something that the government can offer to make it easy for the government to control financial circulation, of course we can't think that CBDC is a bad thing because finances must be able to be controlled so that people continue to trust increase.

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Quote from: kro55 on October 10, 2023, 12:29:20 AM

Why is bitcoin red flagged if CBDCs become popular when most countries only accept and legalize bitcoin as an asset and not a currency? Bitcoin is an asset, CBDC is still the main currency of the economy, so is there any competition between the two for the government to ban it again? Both are not created to compete with each other, they both have different use cases so it cannot be said that governments will seek to ban bitcoin once CBDCs become popular.

CBDC will perform the same function that fiat money currently performs, nothing will change for the consumer, but at the same time, governments will try to convince how much better CBDC is than Bitcoin. They will take some advantages, such as transaction speed, and perhaps fees, as a basis and will convince them that Bitcoin is already the past, and digital currencies are the future. Although the advantages of Bitcoin will be obvious to anyone who studies it.

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Quote from: dothebeats on October 09, 2023, 11:00:21 AM

Quote from: Unbunplease on October 08, 2023, 04:43:38 PM

I would put the question another way. Does the state need bitcoin if the state has CBDC? The likely answer to that is doubtful. Bitcoin acts as a competitor to CBDC, so the green light that the state hypocritically gives to bitcoin now could change to a red light at any moment. I personally never trust the state

I was also thinking of this. Although there are already some countries that legally acknowledge Bitcoin and some that are fine with it despite not having a formal legal policy or acknowledgement regarding it (like here in the country where I live in where even politicians and public figures are loud about holding and trading Bitcoin but no news or updates regarding Bitcoin being banned or legalize is happening) I think once CBDC gets adopted by many countries Bitcoin will be tagged as a red flag for the government. We can think of CBDC as the government's way to advocate and offer digital currency but not by way of Bitcoin but through their own system-one that they can control.

Why is bitcoin red flagged if CBDCs become popular when most countries only accept and legalize bitcoin as an asset and not a currency? Bitcoin is an asset, CBDC is still the main currency of the economy, so is there any competition between the two for the government to ban it again? Both are not created to compete with each other, they both have different use cases so it cannot be said that governments will seek to ban bitcoin once CBDCs become popular.

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Quote from: Unbunplease on October 08, 2023, 04:43:38 PM

Bitcoin acts as a competitor to CBDC, so the green light that the state hypocritically gives to bitcoin now could change to a red light at any moment. I personally never trust the state

Bitcoin exist first, the government just made CBDC in the last few years. So, CBDC seems to act as the competitor of Bitcoin. But it will never has the ability to compete Bitcoin because it has no value as well as Bitcoin. For me CBDC is a digital form of government currency it has no difference with fiats.

Regarding the red light for Bitcoin, it already happens many times. We must remember that there are some countries that ever ban Bitcoin and other crypto coins. Now, they may not ban Bitcoin and other crypto coins, but they can announce to ban again at any time. It depends on what the advantage get by the government from legalizing or banning crypto.

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Quote from: Latviand on October 08, 2023, 08:16:45 AM

Short answer is no, CBDC is just an attempt by the government to ride the hype that bitcoin and cryptocurrency has generated over the years and the government doesn't really need to be that smart to know that if people like get rich quick schemes in crypto space, they must know to join that in hopes that they can lure some of these suckers.

We do not actually need CBDC but the government needs it to control and sensor us. Meanwhile, I think that there is no comparison between CBDC and bitcoin. These two are totally on different lanes. While there is a close relationship between CBDC and some stable coins pegged at country's fiat. Just like that of USDT and USD, naira and e-naira. Bitcoin its own is purely decentralized and has no influence of the government.

Even if we do not need CBDCs, I have the feeling that we all would soon be forced to like it and the only way to escape the compulsion is decentralisation.

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Quote from: Unbunplease on October 08, 2023, 04:43:38 PM

I would put the question another way. Does the state need bitcoin if the state has CBDC? The likely answer to that is doubtful. Bitcoin acts as a competitor to CBDC, so the green light that the state hypocritically gives to bitcoin now could change to a red light at any moment. I personally never trust the state

I was also thinking of this. Although there are already some countries that legally acknowledge Bitcoin and some that are fine with it despite not having a formal legal policy or acknowledgement regarding it (like here in the country where I live in where even politicians and public figures are loud about holding and trading Bitcoin but no news or updates regarding Bitcoin being banned or legalize is happening) I think once CBDC gets adopted by many countries Bitcoin will be tagged as a red flag for the government. We can think of CBDC as the government's way to advocate and offer digital currency but not by way of Bitcoin but through their own system-one that they can control.

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Quote from: pixie85 on October 08, 2023, 06:15:24 AM

Quote from: Arenga pinnata on October 08, 2023, 03:29:50 AM

For now, based on what I have learned regarding CBDC, the conclusion in my opinion is that we don't really need CBDC. Because even the current banking system can now carry out digital transactions with fiat currency. Even now in big cities people are starting to rarely carry cash. Now payments are even more often made with E-Wallets, debit/credit cards, M-Banking and others such as digital wallets and the like. So I think CBDC will only make us have less and less privacy in our own money ownership. So financial privacy will really be reduced. Meanwhile, every human being has the right to have their own privacy in every matter, such as finances and other personal lives. And if ordinary fiat is replaced with CBDC in the next generation, perhaps financial privacy will really be lost.
But I also know that there is a positive impact from the presence of CBDC. Like being able to prevent corruption and the like. But remember, humans always have their own ways of hiding from surveillance systems.
But I prefer fiat now. And for digital, of course there are bitcoin and stablecoins.

But if CBDC can still protect our privacy then perhaps CBDC will have more positive support.

You're repeating the lies that CBDC promoters are spreading like the one that you will have some privacy. Wasn't it the head of the European Central Bank that said it? She literally said that you will have "some" privacy, so she knows most of it will be gone when CBDCs get introduced. The same woman also claimed inflation is caused by global warming Cheesy

Do you really trust these people with your freedom, privacy and money? I don't.

The only thing CBDCs will protect is the government's ability to suppress any opposition.

Well, like that. That's why I said that I don't need a CBDC. Because CBDC does not offer privacy rights to users holding CBDC money later. Because it is centralized and I think the CBDC system is too transparent. If Bitcoin offers only transparency in transactions. But privacy is maintained. Well, this CBDC offers transparent transactions but privacy is maybe also not maintained. This is what makes me and maybe many other people not interested in CBDC. But as I said at the end of my previous reply. That if CBDC can maintain privacy then that will be good and will definitely get a lot of support. But unfortunately all of that is impossible to happen. Because everything was created to make it more centralized and easier to track the flow of money itself. Because there will be nothing left to hide. And I don't think i need this. Because fiat is now far from enough.

But perhaps only those of us who think like this know and are familiar with crypto and bitcoin. But we have to know that there are many people out there who don't know about bitcoin and about decentralization. So they will definitely support CBDC. and the number of people who haven't gotten into bitcoin is huge.

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Quote from: Hewlet on October 02, 2023, 11:06:18 PM

Do we really need cbdc now?

Yes maybe, and only used to introduce to the people who don't know what crypto is. As we know, CBDC is another form of centralization, the government tries to change the form of crypto from decentralization to centralization like fiat. but the point is we can't agree with what they doing to the people. We shouldn't be trapped if they support the crypto where the real fact is their economic enemy. Actually today, several governments are planning to make the crypto being to a fiat system. They backed it with fiat and immediately changed the cryptosystem without us realizing it. We just miss up, and hype the government to adopt the crypto where in fact they wash our minds if making crypto like the fiat system.

That is a fact, and Maybe USDT is their program without us realizing it.

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Quote from: Silberman on October 07, 2023, 01:52:17 AM

Quote from: AmoreJaz on October 06, 2023, 06:20:47 PM

that is true, we actually don't need CBDCs. however, for the sake of adoption from the government sector, they need to push thru this route.
well, it won't harm the crypto market as they have different purpose to serve. and also, i highly believe that it can pave the way of more crypto adoption as these users will uncover the true benefits of dealing with other cryptocurrencies when compared to the government-controlled CBDC.

Right now the adoption of CBDCs is voluntary, however you can be sure that if a crisis comes that puts fiat currencies at risk then it will become mandatory to use CBDCs, and that is when things can get really bad, as the amount of control governments will have over the whole economy and each individual will be simply too much, but ironically this could lead people to finally appreciate the characteristics of bitcoin as a currency.

Whatever crisis that may be, unless it's the dwindling of resources used to create greenbacks I don't think CBDCs will be exempted to it. Plus it's going to cause a massive public outcry if they decide to push CBDCs so bad, so they're forced to be in this delicate balance of making sure that the fiat maximalists are appeased, as they push for digital currencies to be used more often. Mandatory use of CBDCs wouldn't happen in most countries as that would bar indigenous people and marginalized communities from ever getting into the economy, and that's going to stir a lot of trouble which I'm pretty sure the government doesn't want. So they'll be very careful here, and I'm pretty positive that greenbacks will continue to exist even as CBDCs take the whole economy.

Topic: Do we truly need cbdc when bitcoin already exist? (Read 737 times)